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Dublin to Cork Express Coach

  • 03-03-2012 8:58pm
    #1
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    On VERY good authority, it will be operated by GoBus.ie in the very near future.


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Comments

  • #2
    DalkeyResident
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33 ✭DalkeyResident


    <deleted>


  • #3
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    DalkeyResident wrote: »
    The final nail in the coffin for Aircoach - a British Company.

    All of Dalkey would like to wish GoBus.ie, an IRISH COMPANY all the best in the future in creating IRISH JOBS for IRISH PEOPLE.
    Not at all DalkeyResident, it is more the final nail in the coffin for Irish Rail. The only company who will lose passengers will be Irish Rail/CIE


  • #4
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    It will hit all three to be honest, Aircoach, Bus Eireann AND Irish Rail.


  • #5
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    devnull wrote: »
    It will hit all three to be honest, Aircoach, Bus Eireann AND Irish Rail.
    Only a very small portion of bus Eireann passengers on the number 8 service are going all the way, most are travelling to towns on the route like Cashel, Cahir, Mitchelstown, Durrow, Abbeyleix etc.

    An Express service will take passengers from the train as those are paying a premium for the comfort of the train and the faster journey and many are only on the train because they have booked in advance and availed of the few cheaper fares available.


  • #6
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Yes, but we must bow down to great God of competition free-for-all. How much more competition does this poxy country need? We all have too many airports, airlines serving them to provide subsidised regional air services, Bus Eireann and private operators competing with IE - not to mention private motorists.


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  • #7
    coolperson05
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    Roll on Waterford-Dublin....Direct!! :D


  • #8
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    coolperson05 wrote: »
    Roll on Waterford-Dublin....Direct!! :D
    They would have to stop in Carlow for some class:p


  • #9
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    looks great


  • #10
    coolperson05
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭coolperson05


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    They would have to stop in Carlow for some class:p

    Class?? :P I jest!

    Ok, Waterford-Carlow-Dublin!

    But we don't need that 15min stop there for a toilet break! We can hold it till the quays!!

    Someone make it happen! - even Irish Rail! (at a reasonable time! Not 7.10)


  • #11
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    This is fantastic news, I couldn't hope for a better company to run a direct non stop Cork-Dublin service. Their Galway service is superb, this is the company that proved high quality intercity coach travel in Ireland :D

    I can't wait to use it.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Only a very small portion of bus Eireann passengers on the number 8 service are going all the way, most are travelling to towns on the route like Cashel, Cahir, Mitchelstown, Durrow, Abbeyleix etc.

    Then why do Bus Eireann lay on direct non stop services to Dublin at peak times on Fridays and Sundays with full buses?

    Because many people can't afford the train and are going all the way to Dublin. This will definitely take passengers from BE, Aircoach and Irish Rail.

    It will pretty much take all the BE and Aircoach passengers going to Dublin. Guaranteed fast direct service (no chancing an extra direct bus with BE) and if they use the same high quality buses with on board toilets and wifi, they will be big advantages.

    Irish Rail will be devastated by this, as a regular Cork-Dublin train user, I know I will never use this service again once GoBus starts.

    At 3 or 4 times cheaper, it makes no sense to continue to use Irish Rail IMO. And I believe you will see a large percentage of people make the same decision. This is borne out by Irish Rails recent report, it found it's share of the Cork to Dublin market is (40% Rail, 10% bus), but Galway is (25% Rail, 25% Bus).

    Expect to see the same shift in the Cork to Dublin and also Limerick corridor.
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Yes, but we must bow down to great God of competition free-for-all. How much more competition does this poxy country need? We all have too many airports, airlines serving them to provide subsidised regional air services, Bus Eireann and private operators competing with IE - not to mention private motorists.

    This sort of thinking makes no sense. So lets see we built a fantastic new motorway network at the cost of billions and you are saying we shouldn't use it to it's maximum potential as it might hurt poor old Irish Rail.

    Madness.

    You are saying that we shouldn't allow a new company enter the market that will offer people tickets 3 to 4 times cheaper then IR and will cost the taxpayer ZERO to enter the market.

    Any ordinary person would be delighted to see this service launch, only an Irish Rail (or BE/Aircoach) employee or rail fan could have this opinion, knowing that Rail just can't compete.


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  • #12
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Only a very small portion of bus Eireann passengers on the number 8 service are going all the way, most are travelling to towns on the route like Cashel, Cahir, Mitchelstown, Durrow, Abbeyleix etc.

    An Express service will take passengers from the train as those are paying a premium for the comfort of the train and the faster journey and many are only on the train because they have booked in advance and availed of the few cheaper fares available.

    Maybe so - but it's still going to hit the operators to some degree where they will have to cut back somewhat because it'll be harder to achieve the passenger numbers and yields that previously made the service viable which could cause some cutbacks in regard to their timetables.

    There are some people who will use Bus Eireann all the time though, the number of people who are happy to pay for a standard 20 bus between Dublin and Galway still astonishes me when there are much better alternatives. But people seem loyal to them. I'm not sure the same is the case with Aircoach and it certainly isn't with Irish Rail.


  • #13
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk wrote: »
    This is fantastic news, I couldn't hope for a better company to run a direct non stop Cork-Dublin service. Their Galway service is superb, this is the company that proved high quality intercity coach travel in Ireland :D

    I can't wait to use it.



    Then why do Bus Eireann lay on direct non stop services to Dublin at peak times on Fridays and Sundays with full buses?

    Because many people can't afford the train and are going all the way to Dublin. This will definitely take passengers from BE, Aircoach and Irish Rail.

    It will pretty much take all the BE and Aircoach passengers going to Dublin. Guaranteed fast direct service (no chancing an extra direct bus with BE) and if they use the same high quality buses with on board toilets and wifi, they will be big advantages.

    Irish Rail will be devastated by this, as a regular Cork-Dublin train user, I know I will never use this service again once GoBus starts.

    At 3 or 4 times cheaper, it makes no sense to continue to use Irish Rail IMO. And I believe you will see a large percentage of people make the same decision. This is borne out by Irish Rails recent report, it found it's share of the Cork to Dublin market is (40% Rail, 10% bus), but Galway is (25% Rail, 25% Bus).

    Expect to see the same shift in the Cork to Dublin and also Limerick corridor.



    This sort of thinking makes no sense. So lets see we built a fantastic new motorway network at the cost of billions and you are saying we shouldn't use it to it's maximum potential as it might hurt poor old Irish Rail.

    Madness.

    You are saying that we shouldn't allow a new company enter the market that will offer people tickets 3 to 4 times cheaper then IR and will cost the taxpayer ZERO to enter the market.

    Any ordinary person would be delighted to see this service launch, only an Irish Rail (or BE/Aircoach) employee or rail fan could have this opinion, knowing that Rail just can't compete.

    I'm afraid that I find it hard to take anything you post seriously as for a 'regular Cork - Dublin train user' you seem to have a seriously anti-rail mentality. Have you ever posted anything in favour of rail? Link please.


  • #14
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    bk wrote: »
    This is fantastic news, I couldn't hope for a better company to run a direct non stop Cork-Dublin service. Their Galway service is superb, this is the company that proved high quality intercity coach travel in Ireland :D

    It seems they will use Volvo 9700's, these vehicles delivered in 2012 differ to the 2011 ones in that they have no branding for the Galway service, now we know why, they are to be used on a different service. They are going to need a depot somewhere in Cork or Dublin you would say though, perhaps they will be the ultimate bad company and betray the private sector, team up with Bus Eireann again.

    If it's not bad enough to have Aircoach on the route, now we have Gobus with the most horrible uncomfortable yet modern coaches I've ever had the fortune to be on. The seating is tiered, which basically means at the front there is lots of head room as the panel is above your head very high, but as the seats are going up on a slight slope, those at the back have very little headroom.

    If you are Under 6ft and sit near the front they are good. If you sit near the back or are taller than this you are in trouble. The seat recline moves the bottom part of the seat forward, not backwards, but the back part moves backward and the seats are terribly uncomfortable if you happen to be tall. At least the coaches Aircoach use on the Cork run have decent legroom and none of this tiered seating crap which is a nightmare for tall people (I'm 6ft1.5)

    From reading on this board, and from the rumours I told many people about the situation that Aircoach were in a while ago and everyone laughed at me, it seems that the rumours about loss making were right, and as such they couldn't really take a risk with such service.


  • #15
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I'm afraid that I find it hard to take anything you post seriously as for a 'regular Cork - Dublin train user' you seem to have a seriously anti-rail mentality. Have you ever posted anything in favour of rail? Link please.

    I will be taking the train to Dublin this evening, I'll post a picture of my ticket if you like. Been using Cork to Dublin monthly for the past 10 years.

    But here is the thing, I couldn't give a crap about rail, or bus or car or plane.

    Like 99% of people I'm just a commuter who wants to travel from A to B in the most cost effect, fastest and efficient manner possible *.

    * Of course you rarely get all three in one mode of travel, so it is a balance between different peoples needs.

    I couldn't care less if that is bus, rail or flipping teleporter.

    I can point to many posts where I'm in big fan of DART Underground (and DART and commuter rail in general), Metro North, Luas, etc.

    I'm also big fan of rail freight where it makes sense, like in the US and high speed intercity rail travel between large cities in Europe.

    The thing is I have ZERO emotional attachment to rail (or buses, planes, etc.), it is just one of many ways of getting me to where I need to be. I look at all of this from the point of view of what is the fastest and most cost effective way to move people around Ireland. I'm interested in infrastructure, but I bring an engineers perspective to it. I look at the cost of operating rail versus buses and the speeds achievable and make my judgements based on logic.

    It maybe cold and logical, it may not be very romantic, but I keep my romance for the bedroom!


  • #16
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk - I'm somewhat amused that you're a big fan of DART Underground given your lack of belief in the future of intercity rail travel. Do you really think that it would worth spending a fortune on DART Underground just to link the existing DART lines with a surviving commuter line to Kildare - as by your predictions inter-city rail west of there will have gone the way of the Dodo?


  • #17
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    bk - I'm somewhat amused that you're a big fan of DART Underground given your lack of belief in the future of intercity rail travel. Do you really think that it would worth spending a fortune on DART Underground just to link the existing DART lines with a surviving commuter line to Kildare - as by your predictions inter-city rail west of there will have gone the way of the Dodo?

    you could always make Heuston a InterCity bus hub. plenty of connections from there and it wouldnt have to crawl down the quays. with the dart underground, commuter service and Luas sounds like the perfect Hub! :pac:


  • #18
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,237 ✭✭✭markpb


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    bk - I'm somewhat amused that you're a big fan of DART Underground given your lack of blah, blah, blah

    Do you think it would be possible for you to try to keep your posts even remotely related to the title? Jesus.

    I wonder how long the estimated journey time is?

    I think this is great news for travellers and terrible news for Irish Rail - I'm sure they'll struggle along thanks to people who won't change, won't be aware of it or prefer the train and can afford to plan ahead or pay for it.

    If only the NTA would/could pilfer state assets back from CIE and turn Bus Aras into a public bus depot for all operators. I'm no fan of the building but it's in a good location and it makes more sense to use it as much as logistically possible instead of having more intercity buses sitting on the kerbside.


  • #19
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    markpb wrote: »
    I think this is great news for travellers

    JD's stuff is all OT and irrelevant, markpb's comment above is all that matters.

    In these hard recessionary times, when money is tight, travelers having a new, cheap, almost as fast option is fantastic news for all those travelers :D


  • #20
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    I wonder would it be worth DCC investing in Bus station for private operators like they have in Galway?

    one of the drawbacks for some passengers is the lack of facilities for these coach companies while waiting. it's not much fun waiting on a busy footpath with a large suitcase!


  • #21
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I seem to have missed the development of the Coach Station in Galway. Does BE stop there too? It's not like they have any interest in integrating with IE given their tie-up with Gobus.

    As for the increase in express service, if this is how it is then privatise IE now. They will close Nenagh Branch, Limerick Junction-Waterford, Limerick-Galway, Templemore, Ballybrophy and any rural station on single track lines without a passing loop (and maybe some with). The difference is that the private operator will be able to deploy buses with integrated timetables/fares on the former loss making routes or at loss making times on rail routes to create something of a network the way Amtrak does. This combined bus-train entity could be called, um, let me see, the "Irish Transport Company".


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  • #22
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    bk wrote: »
    JD's stuff is all OT and irrelevant, markpb's comment above is all that matters.

    In these hard recessionary times, when money is tight, travelers having a new, cheap, almost as fast option is fantastic news for all those travelers :D

    Bit like your own so - why don't you just start a bus forum instead of posting anti-rail diatribes here? :p


  • #23
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    markpb wrote: »
    Do you think it would be possible for you to try to keep your posts even remotely related to the title? Jesus.

    I wonder how long the estimated journey time is?

    I think this is great news for travellers and terrible news for Irish Rail - I'm sure they'll struggle along thanks to people who won't change, won't be aware of it or prefer the train and can afford to plan ahead or pay for it.

    If only the NTA would/could pilfer state assets back from CIE and turn Bus Aras into a public bus depot for all operators. I'm no fan of the building but it's in a good location and it makes more sense to use it as much as logistically possible instead of having more intercity buses sitting on the kerbside.

    When you're quoting me I would appreciate if you would not alter what I posted..that's if you're capable of it. :rolleyes:


  • #24
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    KCAccidental wrote: »
    one of the drawbacks for some passengers is the lack of facilities for these coach companies while waiting. it's not much fun waiting on a busy footpath with a large suitcase!
    Facepalm. I know space is tight in Galway but if you can't wait indoors in that climate...


  • #25
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,237 ✭✭✭markpb


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    When you're quoting me I would appreciate if you would not alter what I posted..that's if you're capable of it. :rolleyes:

    You're right, I shouldn't have altered your post, that was wrong of me. However, so far in this thread you've:

    - had a generic rant about competition
    - spouted person abuse about BK
    - went on another rant about BJ and Dart Underground
    - had another go at BK

    but you haven't once mentioned the Cork-Dublin bus or, in fact, bus services at all. At this stage, I'll just add you to my ignore list and bow out of this thread. Apologies mods for going off-topic.


  • #26
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    markpb wrote: »
    You're right, I shouldn't have altered your post, that was wrong of me. However, so far in this thread you've:

    - had a generic rant about competition
    - spouted person abuse about BK
    - went on another rant about BJ and Dart Underground
    - had another go at BK

    but you haven't once mentioned the Cork-Dublin bus or, in fact, bus services at all. At this stage, I'll just add you to my ignore list and bow out of this thread. Apologies mods for going off-topic.

    Oh Whoppeee - you're going to ignore me - as if I care. You have a Mod who posts nothing but anti-rail crap here and when I dare to question him, he dismisses me as irrelevant and does not answer my points. I suspect that I have a longer history of campaigning for better public transport than you and bk put together. Have you visited here yet? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=126578


  • #27
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    dowlingm wrote: »
    I seem to have missed the development of the Coach Station in Galway. Does BE stop there too? It's not like they have any interest in integrating with IE given their tie-up with Gobus.

    Bus Eireann don't use the new comfortable bus station in Galway at all, they prefer to leave all their passengers and their luggage on a very narrow footpath surrounded by dozens of 13 ton buses right on the doorstep of the railway station!

    If there was any corporate intelligence within Bus Eireann or CIE this extremely dangerous situation would have been sorted out years ago!


  • #28
    kieran4003
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭kieran4003


    The competition is very welcome. Even though I make posts on a pro rail basis, I reject your comment Bk that those of us who may support rail will be the only ones to complain. I am also pro bus however.

    It will be interesting to see what price they will pitch their fares at, the frequency of the service and the journey time. I would guess the fares will be €10 each way, a 2hour frequency & a 3hr 15 mins journey time.

    The Volvo 9700s that Go Bus use are excellent coaches, they have wifi onboard and a toilet I think? They are better then Bus Eireanns SP class used on the Galway route and the Dublin route.

    BE will soon be introducing new extra long VDL Double deck Intercity coaches, with wifi and on the ground floor there will be tables with facing seats. The first one was delivered last week. The Dublin - Belfast route will be fully operated by them while I understand some will be allocated to the Galway - Dublin route in response to competition. New tri axle extra long Scania Irizar i6 class coaches will also be entering service soon. These will take over the Dublin - Cork route and I understand they will also be used on the Limerick - Dublin route in response to the competiton aswell.

    It will be interesting to see what response BE will make to this proposed service. I am not sure if they would launch an X8 service in competition. Or you could see them partner with Go bus like the Galway route. It has worked well for both of them. Go Bus could not manage on its own while for BE it is a case of keeping your enemies close for want of a better term.

    I would not anticipate any action from Irish Rail, They will probaly see what happens though for a while at least. They cannot really lower their fares anymore.

    I understand Aircoach are going raising their fares though, the high fuel costs at the moment are a problem for small independent operators. The story in the bus industry is that aircoach are currently making losses. That is why I can see Go Bus partnering with BE, but I reckon they would together offer a great service and alternative to the train.

    Bk I note you seem to love branding rail fares as being four times the bus fare. This rather puzzles me. Book in advance and you get the cheap fares. People need to get used to the advance booking system, You know to book in advance with Ryanair, It will take time for people to get used to it with the train. Luckily for you BK I have had time today to check the prices of the train fares for the last week in March. If you look at the attached excel sheet, The fares dont look four times the bus fares to me!


  • #29
    KCAccidental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭KCAccidental


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Facepalm. I know space is tight in Galway but if you can't wait indoors in that climate...

    I think you missed my point. i was referring to the stops for independent intercity buses in Dublin.


  • #30
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,428 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Good post Kieran, the reason I quote prices of 3 to 4 times higher is because that is the price that the vast majority of passengers pay.

    Remember irishrail prices aren't based on time, they are based on quotas. This means only 5%, 10% or whatever % of people get the lower fares. Where on the bus 100% of people get the lower fare.

    It just isn't comparable.

    Plus to be honest IR's online booking system is totally inflexible:

    - you have to pay both a credit card fee and seat reservation fee
    - if you buy two single tickets, you have to pay the two above fees a second time
    - you have to specify your train journey and return time, no ability to modify your journey

    So for my trip this weekend, it was cheaper and more flexible to just walk into the station and with the same credit card buy a cheaper open monthly return ticket with greater flexibility!! Crazy

    With the bus, no such worries, just stroll up and always get a cheap and flexible ticket.

    This is definitely one area Irish Rail can and should fix, make the online booking cheaper and far more flexible.

    As for the idea that people should just get use to Irish Rails new inflexible airline booking model. That is the thing, people don't have to. IR no matter what they like to think, aren't an airline. Unlike with airlines people do have other options, they can also opt to take the much more flexible car or bus. IR just have to deal with this new reality.

    Btw this is posted from the Cork to Dublin train via wifi :)


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  • #31
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I haven't been on a Volvo 9700 but I've heard that they indeed do have a number of quirks with the seating layout for tall people for someone who is quite tall that is sat near the back, can you tell me how bad this is? Is it similar to the coaches like this that National Express operate? If so then I can't see me liking them.

    The seats that move forward when the back reclines I've experienced on other coaches though, and I must say I am not a fan of it, I quite like the Aircoach Setra's, they are very roomy and comfy, but are too small really with only 44 seats a little too luxury. The 2009 Volvo's are really nice coaches, great seats but no tables which sucks a bit.

    It's good to see that Bus Eireann are upgrading, but if it's only the routes that the privates are competing on them with then that is disappointing because there are other routes that could do with the upgrade too. I too don't see why GoBus.ie would partner with Bus Eireann. In the short term I think it would give both parties a boost, but in the long term I don't see it being beneficial to GoBus as Bus Eireann could drop them at any time.

    It seems Aircoach are not raising their fares on the Cork route, Bus Eireann I know recently did theirs, but the Aircoach Cork route has not been touched in the recent fare increases.


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