Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

Rascasse · 11-09-2012 12:38pm

James Allen seems to think the deal is done an Lewis has signed for Mercedes.

His site is suffering from high demand at the moment so I've copied part of the article below. Full thing here.

Lewis Hamilton’s demeanour and that of his team after victory in the Italian Grand Prix bore all the hallmarks of a divorce that has already been agreed. Minimal celebrations on the pit wall and beneath the podium, a team photo for appearances’ sake with an implacable looking Hamilton and Ron Dennis declining to join in.

Despite appearances, team boss Martin Whitmarsh said after the race that suggestions that a deal was already done were “fantasy” and insisted that the door is still open if Hamilton wants to stay.

However driver contracts often get signed during race weekends and there were strong indications that the situation may have been closed out before everyone left Monza.

Hamilton looks like he is moving on, perhaps the only way he can become his own man, certainly the only way he and XIX Entertainment can fully cash in on his status, box office power and his image rights. And that is a big part of what this is about. Mercedes is one of the world’s most powerful brands, while McLaren makes F1 cars and small volume sports cars. This deal will take Hamilton’s name and image well beyond the boundaries of F1. If Hamilton did not want this, why would he had signed up with XIX?

Also McLaren drivers have to work within strict guidelines with team sponsors. Mercedes need Hamilton and this deal will give him greater freedom. The suggested deal with Mercedes and its sponsors is very big and so too will be the impact it will make on the competition in F1 over the next three years and the driver market in the nearer term.

Will be interesting to see if any of the other other trusted journos confirm this in the coming week.

Edit: F1 Racing stirring the pot too:

the culture of deference · 11-09-2012 3:16pm

EnterNow wrote: »

The mindless stupidity of racism, astonishing at times isn't it

I wonder how conflicted they will be when lewis is in a ferrari.

the culture of deference · 11-09-2012 3:25pm

Anyway the latest gossip is DiResta to mclaren, MS to ferrari, Lewis to merc, felipe to force india, petrov out.

Silly season at it's best.

Anyone got full details on who has defo signed for next year

Red Bull SV and MW
McLaren JB and ???
Merc ?????
Force India ????
Sauber ????
Ferrari FA and ???
Lotus KR and ??
Williams ??????

GP2 teams

Virgin
Marussia
Torro Rosso
Caterham
HRT

Myrddin · 11-09-2012 3:31pm

Whats Kimi's contract? Is he confirmed at Lotus for next year?

Myrddin · 11-09-2012 3:39pm

Wow if so. He may enjoy any podium he gets from here on more so than ever because there may not be very many more for a while to come looking at the lack of progress made by Merc in three years.

It'll certainly shake things up, thats for sure. Maybe it'll be good for him to get out of McLaren. Who knows

Max_Charger · 11-09-2012 3:47pm

I still cant believe this. I really hope he stays at McLaren but if he does go,then I pray he knows something we don't in terms of Merc development because it seems he'll be taking a massive step backwards. I did find it odd after winning at the weekend he didn't celebrate or go over to congratulate the team after he had stepped out of the car.

Rascasse · 11-09-2012 3:50pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Whats Kimi's contract? Is he confirmed at Lotus for next year?

I don't think so but if he stays he's unlikely to go anywhere. McLaren and Ferrari are too much hard work for him and right now, as Lotus have next to no sponsors, he just gets to turn up and drive.

Force India are unlikely to confirm anyone before the end of the season as I wouldn't be surprised if they are sold. Vijay's good business are being sold off to pay off the bad debts of the failing ones and his business partner at FI was fined billions for a dodgy investment.

Joe Saward (who has very close links at Caterham) pretty much confirmed that whoever is bank rolling Petrov is unlikey to keep it up to the same degree next year. He also suggested they weren't getting value for KOV and unless he's a bit cheaper next year they may look elsewhere. Maybe a chance for Giedo van der Garde if they can get a good pay driver in the other car?

Max_Charger · 11-09-2012 3:54pm

Kimi is in contract with Lotus till the end of next year.

lolie · 11-09-2012 4:00pm

Going by his demeanour at monza he looked like a lad thats on the way out.
But after the race he said this

"A shame for the team that we didn't get the one-two here in Monza, but there's always next year." ??

Rascasse · 11-09-2012 4:04pm

The positives for going to Merc are the 2014 new regs. PURE have run out of money so only Merc and Renault will be making the engines. No doubt that will help Merc ahead of the season. Having a clear number one and building the car around him will help too.

Like I said before, it may be a great move or it may be a shocker. I'm sure he'll have an exit clause in his contract if it goes badly and he'll end up back at one of the top teams.

Myrddin · 11-09-2012 4:10pm

Rascasse wrote: »

PURE have run out of money so only Merc and Renault will be making the engines.

Are Ferrari not going to be making their own power plant?

brownacid · 11-09-2012 4:14pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Are Ferrari not going to be making their own power plant?

They are, the engine just went on the dyno last week for testing

ratedR · 11-09-2012 4:18pm

It seems he wants to become a brand. He wants to be famous for more then just being an F1 racer. We all know how McLaren like their drivers to look the part and say and do the right things, this doesn't fit in with his agenda.

You always hear Hamilton on about "the fans". I think he forgets though that the majority of his fans like him for being a race driver, and not for much else. There's a bit of a false charisma about him, I dunno. Maybe if he does leave he'll become like David "Crazy Dave" Coulthard from his Red Bull days after leaving McLaren - growing out the beard, being a bit more animated in interviews, jumping into pools in the nip..:D

I still say he's just fed up at Mclaren though. Whether it's the team fcuk ups, or holding his image back, or both, he wants out of there.

Rascasse · 11-09-2012 4:45pm

Doh! Yep of course Ferrari are doing their own. The day they take a customer engine is the day hell freezes over.

The point remains though that Mercedes should really have the jump over the likes of Red Bull, McLaren and Lotus by having that 2014 engine in house and designing it in conjunction with the car. And remember who penned the 2009 championship winning car after there were big rule changes?

11-09-2012 4:56pm

I don't see why Mercedes would want Hamilton for his brand or image.

He is always putting his foot in it and acts a bit like an insecure teenager rather than a confident mature adult. He has a kind of a buffoon reputation at this stage. I don't see how Hamilton in a Mercedes ad sells more cars than Schumacher.

freestyla · 11-09-2012 6:41pm

ratedR wrote: »

It seems he wants to become a brand. He wants to be famous for more then just being an F1 racer. We all know how McLaren like their drivers to look the part and say and do the right things, this doesn't fit in with his agenda.

You always hear Hamilton on about "the fans". I think he forgets though that the majority of his fans like him for being a race driver, and not for much else. There's a bit of a false charisma about him, I dunno. Maybe if he does leave he'll become like David "Crazy Dave" Coulthard from his Red Bull days after leaving McLaren - growing out the beard, being a bit more animated in interviews, jumping into pools in the nip..:D

I still say he's just fed up at Mclaren though. Whether it's the team fcuk ups, or holding his image back, or both, he wants out of there.

Well said^^

I guess Lewis wants to be involved more in show business and more time with family&friends

the next big thing --> Hamilton recording a rap song in German

freestyla · 11-09-2012 7:24pm

Rosberg is with Mercedes next year

(probably with Lewis;)

donspeekinglesh · 11-09-2012 7:33pm

Rascasse wrote: »

Joe Saward (who has very close links at Caterham)

A director of Caterham Cars in fact. (The road car company, not the F1 team.)

Andrew76 · 11-09-2012 7:42pm

EnterNow wrote: »

Wow if so. He may enjoy any podium he gets from here on more so than ever because there may not be very many more for a while to come looking at the lack of progress made by Merc in three years.

It'll certainly shake things up, thats for sure. Maybe it'll be good for him to get out of McLaren. Who knows

But there's zero guarantee that McLaren will be podium material next year. For a top team they have an awful record over the last decade in terms of championship wins so I don't get why some people think he'd be crazy to leave them for Merc.

Rascasse · 11-09-2012 8:49pm

Indeed, I don't like the way its hidden on on his website. Being a 'serious' journalist you'd think he'd have a proper ethics statement and declare his (and Tremayne's) possible conflict of interest.

Saying that, his blogs is worth reading for the occasional scoop and thoughtful analysis.

rua1972 · 11-09-2012 8:51pm

Ever since i read about his involvment i'm looking differently at his lotus/team lotus stories. But apart from that his blog is a must read.

cadaliac · 11-09-2012 9:08pm

Please excuse my ignorance regarding my next question.

Who pays for F1 drivers and at what point (cut over point) do the big teams start to pay the driver? Or, does someone bankroll all the drivers?
I hear you mentioning that Petrov will not be bankrolled any more etc. I also heard that Maldonado brought serious cash to Williams.
Would somebody please enlighten me as to this phenomenon ? I'm just wondering.

Thanks.

Zagato · 11-09-2012 9:40pm

Some sponsors have particular interests in drivers, usually based on they're nationality. Petrov is the only Russian driver, so it makes sense that a Russian company who is going to sponsor an F1 team would sponsor the team he is driving for.

The same is true for Maldonado -Venezuela; Karthrikeyen -India; Senna -Brazil
and to an extent Perez -Mexico

The sponsors bring money to the teams and the teams do pay the drivers, but relatively little compared to the sponsorship the driver brings to the team.

They are pay drivers if they are chosen because of the money they bring to the team rather than their ability behind the wheel

Ghost Train · 11-09-2012 9:47pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

But there's zero guarantee that McLaren will be podium material next year. For a top team they have an awful record over the last decade in terms of championship wins so I don't get why some people think he'd be crazy to leave them for Merc.

They're always there or there abouts.

Mercedes might see it as a way to market to younger generation

Do think he'd be taking more of risk moving than staying but might be good for him, McLaren might have tricky time finding faster driver

cadaliac · 11-09-2012 9:59pm

Thank you Zagato, I was confused by the terminology.
You explained it very well,
Thanks.

donspeekinglesh · 11-09-2012 10:03pm

Rascasse wrote: »

Indeed, I don't like the way its hidden on on his website. Being a 'serious' journalist you'd think he'd have a proper ethics statement and declare his (and Tremayne's) possible conflict of interest.

Saying that, his blogs is worth reading for the occasional scoop and thoughtful analysis.

As far as he's concerned it's clear enough. His reaction to people questioning that, and his general reaction to any sort of criticism, is why I've given up reading his blog.
(I do enjoy his writing though, own his non F1 books.)

Myrddin · 11-09-2012 10:15pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

But there's zero guarantee that McLaren will be podium material next year. For a top team they have an awful record over the last decade in terms of championship wins so I don't get why some people think he'd be crazy to leave them for Merc.

1 win in three years though...with two capable drivers, its not exactly inspiring. McLaren at least are in with a shout

Rascasse · 12-09-2012 12:07am

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Rascasse wrote: »

Indeed, I don't like the way its hidden on on his website. Being a 'serious' journalist you'd think he'd have a proper ethics statement and declare his (and Tremayne's) possible conflict of interest.

Saying that, his blogs is worth reading for the occasional scoop and thoughtful analysis.

As far as he's concerned it's clear enough. His reaction to people questioning that, and his general reaction to any sort of criticism, is why I've given up reading his blog.
(I do enjoy his writing though, own his non F1 books.)

He certainly doesn't like being questioned about his Caterham links. He also went off on one when the Bahrain GP was on and it was found that he and his cohort met with (and possibly duped by) a pro government campaigner. Another thing that annoys me is his constant digs at bloggers.

Yet I still read his blog as he does have a knack of filtering the BS from the truth having been there for so many years.

Andrew76 · 12-09-2012 12:45am

Ghost Train wrote: »

They're always there or there abouts.

Mercedes might see it as a way to market to younger generation

Do think he'd be taking more of risk moving than staying but might be good for him, McLaren might have tricky time finding faster driver

But "there or there abouts" in recent years may aswell have been nowhere when all it resulted in was 1 title, Hamilton's, which he barely secured on the last lap of the season.

EnterNow wrote: »

1 win in three years though...with two capable drivers, its not exactly inspiring. McLaren at least are in with a shout

Agreed 1 win is crap, but they have the same number of titles in that time, 0. Unless you count Brawn in 2009, then Merc are ahead. :P

the culture of deference · 12-09-2012 1:59pm

Unfortunately nowadays in F1 Celebrity is so important. F1 racing is now entertainment. This year with tyres we are seeing limited pacing instead of racing.

In Lewis you have a young guy who can hang with rappers and singers and mix in the worlds of both easily. He wants to be in charge of his image, marketing, and he wants the silverware. He is now super rich and famous in the league of Jay Z and Beyonce level of fame.

Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread

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