MickC66 wrote: »

Hi all,

my 13 year old has declared in interest in learning target shooting. As he is to young for rimfire was wondering if anyone can advise a range for air rifles in the North Dublin area that accommodates / trains younger air rifle enthusiasts.

thanks

Mick

'Kay, Gentlemen, can a kind soul there explain why a 13-year old is 'too young for rimfire'?

Is it Irish firearms law or a club ruling?

TIA.

tac

Thanks for that.

tac

Sparks, I wasn't suggesting doing anything 'monumentally dumb if not downright evil to let them do so without supervision and training'. I've been an NRA Club coach and firearms [rifle and handgun] distinguished instructor since 1978, so I'm well aware of the requirements for supervision and safety, since I also teach it on a live-firing range three times a week.

In other countries, youngsters are allowed to start at a much earlier age - I was six - although most here in UK that we see ACCOMPANIED by their club-member parents are around ten or so.

One of the factors you note is one of the relative size of the youngsters today. We have ten-yo's who look fourteen [especially the girls], and many of us, me included, have smaller-scale rifles to suit those of smaller stature.

Two of the major limiting factors in the RoI have to be the combination of the laws governing the ownership of airguns of any kind [over 1 Joule], and the limitations on where they might be used for practice.

Given those extreme hindrances, I can understand why the laws are set at the ages they are, although, like many laws regarding firearms [and airguns] they owe little to the application of basic common sense.

tac

tac foley wrote: »

Sparks, I wasn't suggesting ...

It wasn't written for you tac, this is a public forum. It was written for those members of the public reading it whose first thought would be "OH MY GOD YOU GIVE BABIES GUNS".

I'm still going to suggest Wilkinstown myself as they have the strongest history I know of of any club in working with juniors. It's airgun only, but he can look at other options down the line for cartridge rifle if that's how he wants to go, and their membership is very reasonable as I recall.

oldzed wrote: »

Air rifles are not governed by the range regulations the same as cartridge guns , the range inspector has confirmed this to me on a previous discussion , all you need is section 2 clearance from your super , same as running a clay shoot .

That's both right and wrong and it's missing a lot of context that would let someone coming at it anew figure out exactly what you meant. Just in case someone gets caught out, the practical situation (forgive me if I'm not citing every single law here) is this:

• Every target shooting range in the country requires both planning permission (which is a purely local council affair), and a section 2(5) authorisation from the local Superintendent (which is a purely local Superintendent affair).
• The Range Inspector provides an additional, independent certification under section 4A for ranges saying that they've been inspected and are safe to operate.
• No ranges have specific exemption from the 4A process; but strictly speaking you don't actually need a 4A certificate if the Super will grant a 2(5) authorisation without the 4A certificate.
• However "if" is the operative word there and right now no super will grant a 2(5) without a 4A because the 4A mechanism has a purpose, it's not some bureaucratic oversight, it's a Minister's policy.
• The Range Inspector in some cases (specifically small, indoor, airgun-only ranges like the Pony Club's) has encouraged some Supers to issue the 2(5) without the full trip through the 4A process (the ranges are still examined in every case of this that I know of, mind). He can't order them to do so, his office does not have that legal authority; but he can talk to them about it, that's perfectly above board and proper (he'd be talking to them anyway if they were going down the 4A route).

None of this is new, and in fact all of this was discussed publicly by the Range Inspector at the second public FCP conference, as reported on here, and that was five years ago.

But just because the Range Inspector thinks (rightly) that a full-blown 4A process designed for large ranges like Hilltop or the Midlands doesn't make sense for a one-lane indoor airgun range in a converted hayshed that's used for a month every year by the Pony Club tetrathlon juniors, doesn't mean the law has been rewritten. It's just that there's just enough wiggle room in the law to allow the current state of affairs. Practically speaking, it still requires the Range Inspector to be involved, so safety checks are still being done; but tiny ranges that would otherwise shut down (what farmer is going to drop a few grand bringing his barn up to a code designed for commercial ranges that shoot everything up to .50 cal at a thousand yards, and then another grand on the licence?) and cripple a sport (haven't we seen enough of that already?) are getting some wiggle room.

But (and this bit's for the press reading this ) none of this means you can just stick a target on a tree in your back yard and plink away merrily so public safety is not being compromised.