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Rules of Golf on Smartphones

  • 28-03-2012 10:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭


    Are you allowed to view the Rules of Golf app on an iPhone (or any smartphone) during a competitive round, or is that the rugby equivalent of accidental offside in Golf? Going on the basis that you can't use it as a DMD as it packs all these little tricks like a compass, wind direction, temp etc, even if you don't actually use them


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭saintastic


    The new iPhone 4S has the compass as a separate app so not sure if these can now be used as DMDs.

    And I think your question is very good. It is much easier to find the answer via the Rules of Golf app rather than in the book because of the search option.

    Hope you find the answer!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    AFAIK you can't only use a phone for making calls and receiving messages


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    saintastic wrote: »
    The new iPhone 4S has the compass as a separate app so not sure if these can now be used as DMDs.

    And I think your question is very good. It is much easier to find the answer via the Rules of Golf app rather than in the book because of the search option.

    Hope you find the answer!!

    The compass can be accessed by any app, not just the app supplied by apple. They are illegal because the potential for the compass, gyroscope etc... to be used in an app/during play exists. It's the same reason a range finder with slope functionality is illegal in competition play whether you use the added feature or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭saintastic


    The compass can be accessed by any app, not just the app supplied by apple. They are illegal because the potential for the compass, gyroscope etc... to be used in an app/during play exists. It's the same reason a range finder with slope functionality is illegal in competition play whether you use the added feature or not.

    With the previous modes of the iPhone, the compass was always in the top right corner so it was always on which I assumed made it illegal?

    Where with the new one, you have to load it up, it is not always on. Just thought it would make sense?


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Jul3s


    Villain wrote: »
    AFAIK you can't only use a phone for making calls and receiving messages
    So I have to use it as a DMD or rules APP?.
    Whats the penalty if I decide I only want to use it for calls and text?.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    Jul3s wrote: »
    So I have to use it as a DMD or rules APP?.
    Whats the penalty if I decide I only want to use it for calls and text?.

    You cannot use it as a DMD in qualifing comps. It's the same as bushnell range finders with slope, they are not allowed even if you do not use the functionality.

    Maybe if Congu/PGA/GUI etc... come up with an approved DMD app for smartphones, then you may see them allowed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    You cannot use it as a DMD in qualifing comps. It's the same as bushnell range finders with slope, they are not allowed even if you do not use the functionality.

    Maybe if Congu/PGA/GUI etc... come up with an approved DMD app for smartphones, then you may see them allowed.

    The problem is not the app its the other apps that you *could* have on the phone. Once the phone has the ability to have the illegal apps on it then its a potential problem.

    That said I had a phone approved for play in a GUI event because I could show that the illegal apps had been removed.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Jul3s


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem is not the app its the other apps that you *could* have on the phone. Once the phone has the ability to have the illegal apps on it then its a potential problem.

    That said I had a phone approved for play in a GUI event because I could show that the illegal apps had been removed.
    This is incorrect and it's this kind of misinformation and poor interpretation of the rule that causes most of the confusion, particularly on here when it's coming from a person who should know better.
    This is the rule regarding DMD.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Jul3s wrote: »
    This is incorrect and it's this kind of misinformation and poor interpretation of the rule that causes most of the confusion, particularly on here when it's coming from a person who should know better.
    This is the rule regarding DMD.

    potential [puh-ten-shuhl]  
    po·ten·tial   [puh-ten-shuhl]
    adjective
    1. possible, as opposed to actual:


    I was merely pointing out that a dedicated DMD app from the R&A solves nothing, but thanks anyway!


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Jul3s


    GreeBo wrote: »
    potential [puh-ten-shuhl]  
    po·ten·tial   [puh-ten-shuhl]
    adjective
    1. possible, as opposed to actual:


    I was merely pointing out that a dedicated DMD app from the R&A solves nothing, but thanks anyway!
    Still incorrect I'm afraid, a phone having the potential to have that app is not a breach of the rules.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭saintastic


    That's a great link Jul3s. So the site is saying that you can use your iPhone (which has compass on it) to check the rules as long as you are not using it as a DMD. If you are using it as a DMD, it must not have the capability to check anything but distance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    saintastic wrote: »
    That's a great link Jul3s. So the site is saying that you can use your iPhone (which has compass on it) to check the rules as long as you are not using it as a DMD. If you are using it as a DMD, it must not have the capability to check anything but distance.

    So long as you are not in breach of a local rule.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Jul3s wrote: »
    Still incorrect I'm afraid, a phone having the potential to have that app is not a breach of the rules.

    Please reread the original post as you are misreading it and missing the point.
    It seems you are reading the word "potential" in the wrong place.

    Im not saying its a breach of the rules, Im saying the ability to load other apps is a potential problem that a RANDA app doesnt address.
    Once the phone has the ability to have the illegal apps on it then its a potential problem.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Jul3s


    saintastic wrote: »
    That's a great link Jul3s. So the site is saying that you can use your iPhone (which has compass on it) to check the rules as long as you are not using it as a DMD. If you are using it as a DMD, it must not have the capability to check anything but distance.
    Yea that's my interpretation too.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Please reread the original post as you are misreading it and missing the point.
    It seems you are reading the word "potential" in the wrong place.

    Im not saying its a breach of the rules, Im saying the ability to load other apps is a potential problem that a RANDA app doesnt address.
    The part in bold is nonsense, why would you even bother saying it, it's "potentially" confusing and misleading and is irrelavant imo, the fact that your phone has the ability to carry such apps, doesn't make it a breach of the rules, it's only if and when the offending app is installed on the phone that it becomes a problem.
    Anyway enough of this nonsense, because any serious golfer is not using their phone as a DMD and whoever is using it as a DMD, I'd leave them off because smartphones as DMD's are not so smart at all i.e there're ****e.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Golfgraffix


    Jul3s wrote: »
    Anyway enough of this nonsense, because any serious golfer is not using their phone as a DMD and whoever is using it as a DMD, I'd leave them off because smartphones as DMD's are not so smart at all i.e there're ****e.

    No longer true, we were doing some on course testing on some new code last week and were getting accuracy below +\- 40cm


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,008 ✭✭✭BraveDonut


    I find that my phone gives close enough readings using a free app to make it ludicrous to spend €300 on a GPS device!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Jul3s wrote: »
    The part in bold is nonsense, why would you even bother saying it, it's "potentially" confusing and misleading and is irrelavant imo, the fact that your phone has the ability to carry such apps, doesn't make it a breach of the rules, it's only if and when the offending app is installed on the phone that it becomes a problem.

    You are conveniently bolding only half of a sentence there buddy.

    1) bustercherry posted that maybe a randa app would "solve" the smartphone issue
    2) I stated that a randa app wouldnt solve anything as the problem is not with the DMD app itself, its with the potential to have other illegal apps on the phone.
    3) You misunderstood and now keep posting, arguing against a point I havent made...

    Look at the part of your own post that I have bolded. Do you think a Randa approved smart phone app solves this issue? No. Neither do I. Because the ability to install other illegal apps is what creates the potential problem with smart phones that a randa approved DMD app doesnt address.


    Smartphone DMD's are perfectly acceptable at amateur level golf, I dont see the need for the snobbery. :confused:

    If you can hit the ball within 2m each time taking into consideration elevation, air pressure, wind, temperature and your own shot making ability then we would probably be watching you on telly every Sunday night and not arguing on a golf forum. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    The rules on iphones, androids and blackberries need clarification. RANDA need to stipulate around these rules and smartphones because afaik all of the above phones with GPS also have an electromagnetic compass rendering them illegal.

    I think your club however can set a local rule in place to specifically allow these devices but RANDA really need to make a clear and decisive rule for these devices as they are becoming more prominent in the market and game.

    I personally don't have any quibbles with them and i think they increase competitiveness at the amatuer level. I also think they somewhat speed up the game, instead of having to pace out yardages and calculate back middle fron they do it for you in seconds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    The local rule in my place is you can use DMD but the device must not be capable of providing any other details e.g. direction, slope, temp etc

    Thats very clear imo, a smart phone Device is capable of providing such details, e.g. you can install an app for temp.

    That local rule wording is based on the GUI ruling for inter club competitions afaik


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    Hi Villain,

    although an app for weather can be downloaded its not actually a temperature/humidity/wind measuring device, its only referencing a website which is pulling the information from a remote weather station.

    so technically its not measuring the information or capable of measuring it, its only reporting it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,960 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Hi Villain,

    although an app for weather can be downloaded its not actually a temperature/humidity/wind measuring device, its only referencing a website which is pulling the information from a remote weather station.

    so technically its not measuring the information or capable of measuring it, its only reporting it.

    Doesnt need to measure, even reporting is a breach.
    From here
    Though the rules are not technically clear here either.
    It seems to say that its only a breach if this information is available from a browser or a shortcut to a browser. This doesnt mean anything in the real world.
    I can write an android app thats getting weather and wind information from the internet but not via a browser. Is this a breach or not? To me it clearly is but the rules dont explicitly state that it is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    exactly, the rules aren't clear at all.

    I think thats what i was trying to get at in one of my previous posts but at the end of the day i also feel that at amatuer level that these details dno't do much for us.

    Compass - No good, most of us can barely hit the ball straight even if we know where the hole is
    Humidity - +/- 5 yards - Most of us don't hit distances consistently
    Wind - No good for the previous two points
    Temperateure - Distance Consistency


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 550 ✭✭✭Jul3s


    Fair play to Greebo I bet you'd argue with your shadow if no one was around just for the sake of it.
    Last word on this subject, it never ceases to amaze how 2 people can read the same flow chart and interpret it so differently.
    It really is this simple, can the DMD device you are using measure anything other then distance, e.g. slope, wind speed etc. (having a link to a local weather website is not a breach, it's only if the device itself has the capability to measure the weather conditions in situ), if the answer is yes then your DMD is in breach of the rules and cannot be used in competition where DMD's are allowed.
    You can make it as simple or as complicated as you like for yourself, but it really is that simple, but maybe some people like complicated more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭saintastic


    exactly, the rules aren't clear at all.

    I think thats what i was trying to get at in one of my previous posts but at the end of the day i also feel that at amatuer level that these details dno't do much for us.

    Compass - No good, most of us can barely hit the ball straight even if we know where the hole is
    Humidity - +/- 5 yards - Most of us don't hit distances consistently
    Wind - No good for the previous two points
    Temperateure - Distance Consistency

    Matt-Dublin, did you see Jul3s' post earlier, he provided a very good link which makes it clear in my opinion: http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-in-Focus/Archive/2011/March/DMDs.aspx.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    saintastic wrote: »
    Matt-Dublin, did you see Jul3s' post earlier, he provided a very good link which makes it clear in my opinion: http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-in-Focus/Archive/2011/March/DMDs.aspx.
    ah thats new, i didn't see the flowcharts.

    due to that all iphones are out from iphone 3 and up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭saintastic


    ah thats new, i didn't see the flowcharts.

    due to that all iphones are out from iphone 3 and up.

    Fair play to the RANDA, they seem to be trying to make it somewhat easier to understand and seem pro-active.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    about time, but i think they should allow iphones.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    about time, but i think they should allow iphones.

    I'm not so sure tbh, this might be an extreme case but I have a professional weather station about 1 mile from the course I play, if I was to use my iPhone I could get the wind direction and speed and then use the compass to get very accurate information, now I play off 18 so tbh it's not going make much difference to me but it might to others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭matt-dublin


    Villain wrote: »
    I'm not so sure tbh, this might be an extreme case but I have a professional weather station about 1 mile from the course I play, if I was to use my iPhone I could get the wind direction and speed and then use the compass to get very accurate information, now I play off 18 so tbh it's not going make much difference to me but it might to others.
    u can get a very accurate compass bearing from a GPS distance measuring device based on point to point and directionality

    you're also allowed to browse the web and get weather information as long as the device cant actually measure the weather/wind/air pressure/temperature


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭IITYWYBMAD


    GreeBo wrote: »
    The problem is not the app its the other apps that you *could* have on the phone. Once the phone has the ability to have the illegal apps on it then its a potential problem.

    That said I had a phone approved for play in a GUI event because I could show that the illegal apps had been removed.

    Could you tell me what phone, and what App you are using? Thanks.


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