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Time To End Internment - Release Marian Price and Martin Corey

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    If a republican who SF claim should be released, who claim she is interned unjustly, died in jail then something would have to give. It would take major political moves at senior levels to prevent a mass walk out of SF members.

    I'm a member of SF and I fully support the GFA. I don't support Marian Price's political opinions or any political group which opposes the GFA. However if a republican like Marian Price or Martin Corey, or Gerry McGeough died because of their imprisonment I would seriously question participation in the political institutions. Whats they point if republicas are still being interned and dying in British jails?

    Are republicans all the same to you? You support the GFA. She doesn't support the GFA. You don't support her views. Yet you allign yourself with her and call her imprisonment on the back of her breaching her licence (something included in the GFA that you claim to support) internment. You refer to them as British jails? For all I care you can stick her in an Irish jail.

    Maybe if you are worried about creating martyrs you would suggest to SF that they shouldn't support people like this, people opposed to their politics and set on continuing violent 'struggle' - you know, balaclava-clad terrorists and their sympathisers. Maybe SF should cop on and stop spreading the notion that she is imprisoned unjustly.
    The fact that you want her dead in jail confirms for me, you intransigence.

    I don't want her dead in jail, but I also don't want her out in xociety spreading her hate and trying to indoctrinate a new generation who were never touched by the troubles.
    The single largest threat to the peace process is the situation in the jails. I fully expect that if things keep going the way they are we will have a hunger strike on our hands in a few years. That would be devastating.

    I'd disagree. The single largest threat are the people who try and kick up stink over the imprisonment of someone who associates with dissidents (in breach of their licence), who dishonestly refers to this as the emotive 'British internment' and who makes threats to the peace process should they not get their way. The biggest threat are the people who support her, and who support dissidents. They haven't gone away you know. You stoke the flames and rile up the crowd just as much as you claim your opponents (the Brits) do.


  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,780 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    If a republican who SF claim should be released, who claim she is interned unjustly, died in jail then something would have to give. It would take major political moves at senior levels to prevent a mass walk out of SF members.

    I'm a member of SF and I fully support the GFA. I don't support Marian Price's political opinions or any political group which opposes the GFA. However if a republican like Marian Price or Martin Corey, or Gerry McGeough died because of their imprisonment I would seriously question participation in the political institutions.
    I'm strongly tempted to bookmark this post for the next time I'm asked why I still don't consider Sinn Féin a fully legitimate political party. Their commitment to purely political means is a very fragile thing. When the time comes that nothing could cause their commitment to non-violence to waver, then they'll have earned full legitimacy.
    And it would all be because of stupidity, it's all easily preventable.
    Just as Marian Price could have easily prevented the revocation of her licence by not associating with terrorists. But somehow that's far, far too much to ask.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Try to see the larger picture.
    People have been trying to tell this to your chosen party, its members, its 'connections', its supporters, sympathisers and apologists for some decades now.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    I'm sorry Fenian Army, but the IT article you quoted said this
    The panel found that Paterson’s view was correct, that while the balance of Price’s 20-year sentence was remitted, her release from the life sentences was conditional on future behaviour. They cite a letter dated April 30th, 1980 – the day Price was released – from the private secretary to the Secretary of State to the private secretary to the Queen: “Her (McGlinchey’s) release involves release from the life sentence which means that she will always remain liable to be recalled to prison if her behaviour justifies this step.”

    She does not need to found guilty of being involved of holding a piece of paper, handing over a mobile phone used in a terrorist attack. She was released on licence, and simply the being at these events, and colluding with terrorist sympathisers is enough to see her sent back to prison to serve the remainder of her sentence.

    She was treated with leniency in 1980 on the proviso she adhere to some pretty simple rules. She failed to do, and is back in prison. Price admitted in the interview that she drove the car that the kidnapped Jean Mc Conville was driven to be executed in a unmarked grave by thugs with delusions of grandeur. Pity she can't remember the route she took, so at least the Mc Conville family could find their mother's body and get a degree of closure.

    The woman can rot in prison, and deservedly so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,562 ✭✭✭✭Sunnyisland


    This might have some relevance to this discussion and the possible outcome,

    Re martin corey,

    On Monday, Mr Justice Treacy held there had been a breach of the European Convention on Human Rights which states that anyone deprived of their liberty can have the lawfulness of detention decided speedily by a court.
    The judge found that the open evidence did not advance the Northern Ireland Secretary’s case against Corey, meaning that the decision was solely based on closed material.
    Mr Justice Treacy also ruled that the Parole Commissioners misdirected themselves in law and failed to provide a sufficient safeguard against the lack of full disclosure.
    He stated: “I’m going to remit the matter to the commissioners to reconsider the matter in light of the judgment of the court.”
    Corey was also awarded legal costs in bringing the challenge.
    While Corey waited in Maghaberry jail to be freed the secretary of state moved to block the release and at around 5.30pm the veteran republican was re-arrested and remains in the prison.
    Republican Sinn Féin said the British state was “determined to keep Martin interned at all costs.” from bbc.

    My opinion is there has to be clear guidelines in why there keeping these people in prison, and publicly spoken, as the way its been handled at the moment only gives more support for the rejectionists of the GFA.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 43,274 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    They seem very selective in enforcing ECHR judgments, wasn't there a big controversy just a few months ago about one?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Di0genes wrote: »
    Price admitted in the interview that she drove the car that the kidnapped Jean Mc Conville was driven to be executed in a unmarked grave by thugs with delusions of grandeur. Pity she can't remember the route she took, so at least the Mc Conville family could find their mother's body and get a degree of closure.

    I think you're confusing the two Price sisters. There's Marian (the terrorist) and Delours (the terrorist).... I can see how it's easy to confuse them!

    AFAIK it was Delours that admitted to driving Jean McConville to her execution


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    I think you're confusing the two Price sisters. There's Marian (the terrorist) and Delours (the terrorist).... I can see how it's easy to confuse them!

    AFAIK it was Delours that admitted to driving Jean McConville to her execution

    Apologises. you are correct. Marian just killed a man, and injured hundreds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    think SDLP and Sinn Fein should leave stormont over this.Whats the point in a devolved assembly if one Englishman has more power in his little finger than the the supposedly devolved justice system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Dubhlinner wrote: »
    think SDLP and Sinn Fein should leave stormont over this.Whats the point in a devolved assembly if one Englishman has more power in his little finger than the the supposedly devolved justice system.

    When Stormont falls so will the SDLP and SF. Years ago something like this would have ended the ceasefire and SF would have pulled out of talks. Now it just means a surge in support for "dissidents".


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    If a republican who SF claim should be released, who claim she is interned unjustly, died in jail then something would have to give. It would take major political moves at senior levels to prevent a mass walk out of SF members.

    I'm a member of SF and I fully support the GFA. I don't support Marian Price's political opinions or any political group which opposes the GFA. However if a republican like Marian Price or Martin Corey, or Gerry McGeough died because of their imprisonment I would seriously question participation in the political institutions. Whats they point if republicas are still being interned and dying in British jails?

    The fact that you want her dead in jail confirms for me, you intransigence.

    The single largest threat to the peace process is the situation in the jails. I fully expect that if things keep going the way they are we will have a hunger strike on our hands in a few years. That would be devastating.

    And it would all be because of stupidity, it's all easily preventable.

    Try to see the larger picture.
    In other words, if SF dont get their way then its members like yourself would go back to the bullet and the bomb!
    So much for exclusivley peaceful and democratic means.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    SocSocPol wrote: »
    In other words, if SF dont get their way then its members like yourself would go back to the bullet and the bomb!
    So much for exclusivley peaceful and democratic means.
    No, why jump to conclusions?

    Not everyone who disagrees with the current political situation has "gone back to the bullet and bomb", in fact most haven't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Dubhlinner


    If a republican who SF claim should be released, who claim she is interned unjustly, died in jail then something would have to give. It would take major political moves at senior levels to prevent a mass walk out of SF members.

    I'm a member of SF and I fully support the GFA. I don't support Marian Price's political opinions or any political group which opposes the GFA. However if a republican like Marian Price or Martin Corey, or Gerry McGeough died because of their imprisonment I would seriously question participation in the political institutions. Whats they point if republicas are still being interned and dying in British jails?

    The fact that you want her dead in jail confirms for me, you intransigence.

    The single largest threat to the peace process is the situation in the jails. I fully expect that if things keep going the way they are we will have a hunger strike on our hands in a few years. That would be devastating.

    And it would all be because of stupidity, it's all easily preventable.

    Try to see the larger picture.

    To be honest I used to think this but I question it now.

    In terms of principle there is no real difference between dying in jail and simply being there for Corey Price & McGeough.

    So despite them being imprisoned you remain a member of a party who support the government who have imprisoned them.

    I don't mean that as a dig at you - you are obviously weighing up the pros and cons of engaging with the political institutions and have decided engaging is the better option.

    I think most people in Sinn Fein think in similar terms to yourself. I think that the types who'd leave the party over them dying have already left due to them being imprisoned.

    Furthermore I think a hungerstrike would be largely ignored. One guy was already on one for 40 days and it barely made the news.

    The reality now is that Sinn Fein aren't reliant on their dedicated grass root republicans for support. They have the nationalist middle class vote in the north sewn up and are growing in the south. Make no mistake that's all the handshake with the queen of england was about - normalising SF in the eyes of southern voters.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    Sinn Fein, let alone The SDLP, aren't going anywhere. If SF pulls out of Stormont then it's leadership strategy will have failed and have been seen to fail. The vanity of SF's key players would not allow this to happen. It's possible that The SDLP would then take SF's executive positions, permanently freezing SF out. Most northern Catholics like devolved government within The UK and they'd not reward any party that put that system in jeopardy.

    No, whatever happens in the prisons, the dye has been cast. There's no going back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    Old Bailey bomber Marian Price is seriously ill in hospital with pneumonia.

    Her family has expressed “deep concern” about her deteriorating mental and physical health.

    In June Price, who is suffering from severe depression after a year in solitary confinement, was moved from Hydebank prison to Belfast City Hospital’s Windsor House unit, which treats patients with psychiatric issues.
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/fears-grow-for-bomber-marian-price-after-shes-hospitalised-with-pneumonia-16192714.html

    Its getting ridiculous at this stage. She's a bigger threat in jail than on the outside, and if she becomes a modern day republican martyr, in death she'll be a more powerful enemy than ever.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 806 ✭✭✭getzls


    How many times do her supporters expect her to be released if she is at deaths door? She abused it once, i hope she won't have the chance to abuse it twice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    In all honesty I don't see Stormont falling over this. At best about 5% of voters will abstain from voting and the secretary of state will be sent home.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 159 ✭✭whitelines


    In all honesty I don't see Stormont falling over this. At best about 5% of voters will abstain from voting and the secretary of state will be sent home.

    The vast majority of people in NI couldn't give a damn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    whitelines wrote: »
    The vast majority of people in NI couldn't give a damn.

    From the song Joe McDonnell:
    Then a hunger strike we did commence
    For the dignity of man
    But it seemed to me that no one gave a damn
    Oh but now I am a saddened man
    I've watched my comrades die
    If only people cared or wondered why

    Now people go on with their lives but if Marian dies many more people will care. Already thousands have attended protests and held candlelit vigils. There was a few hundred turned out in Glasgow last week.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,662 ✭✭✭RMD


    I used to be 100% against the release of Marian Price, but with the recent formation of the "New IRA" or whatever they're calling themselves Price provides the potential of propaganda. In terms of what is a bigger threat to peace, I'd say it's propaganda over the release of 1 lady in poor health who can be put under surveillance upon release.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    RMD wrote: »
    I used to be 100% against the release of Marian Price, but with the recent formation of the "New IRA" or whatever they're calling themselves Price provides the potential of propaganda. In terms of what is a bigger threat to peace, I'd say it's propaganda over the release of 1 lady in poor health who can be put under surveillance upon release.
    What I've been saying all along :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    RMD wrote: »
    I used to be 100% against the release of Marian Price, but with the recent formation of the "New IRA" or whatever they're calling themselves Price provides the potential of propaganda. In terms of what is a bigger threat to peace, I'd say it's propaganda over the release of 1 lady in poor health who can be put under surveillance upon release.

    I'm afraid its too late for that now. What about Martin Corey? Marian Price's case wasn't isolated either, the same was done to Colin Duffy and there were protests and riots every week in his town over what happened. When the released him it did not mean that they wouldn't do the same again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    What I've been saying all along :)

    Ah, the Chamberlain tactic, that was a great success.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Cardinal Richelieu


    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/fears-grow-for-bomber-marian-price-after-shes-hospitalised-with-pneumonia-16192714.html

    Its getting ridiculous at this stage. She's a bigger threat in jail than on the outside, and if she becomes a modern day republican martyr, in death she'll be a more powerful enemy than ever.

    Sounds very much like the Brendan Lillis defense, its a wonder the Vatican hasn't got involved with the number of miracle recovers of "at deaths door republicans" after they got released from jail. How is Brendan these days? The daily updates on his health on here suddenly dried up the moment he got out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Sounds very much like the Brendan Lillis defense, its a wonder the Vatican hasn't got involved with the number of miracle recovers of "at deaths door republicans" after they got released from jail. How is Brendan these days? The daily updates on his health on here suddenly dried up the moment he got out.
    Emotional blackmail for alleged martyrs. Nothing new to this crowd and their support.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    I guess it comes down to what you think is more dangerous - a very sick women, mentally (severe depression brought on by months and months of solitary) and physically(severe arthritis, big weight loss, pneumonia) being released or having said woman, a republican icon for decades (already immortalized in "republican mythology" along with her sister in the Dublin City Ramblers ballad "bring them home"), a hunger striker, and one of the best known, respected and popular "anti agreement" republicans die in a British jail.

    I think the latter threatens things more than the former. I rolled my eyes at the "Chamberain tactic" nonsense. Godwinning is ridiculous in itself but a look at history shows that republicans dying in jails has always stirred up more publicity and support for their cause. This was the case with McSweeney, it was the case with Marian Price's comrades on hunger strike, Michael Gaughan and later Frank Stagg, it was the case, especially so, with the ten in '81 and it will be a case of history repeating itself if Marian Price dies because of her incarceration.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    I guess it comes down to what you think is more dangerous

    Ah so that's how getting your own way works! Let me have sex with your wife or I'll cut off your head....hmmm well I guess you'll let me go ahead and do the least dangerous one.... Most threats are false dichotomies. Physical force republicans have a choice, they choose their trigger, it is not simple cause and effect.

    - a very sick women, mentally (severe depression brought on by months and months of solitary) and physically(severe arthritis, big weight loss, pneumonia) being released or having said woman, a republican icon for decades (already immortalized in "republican mythology" along with her sister in the Dublin City Ramblers ballad "bring them home"), a hunger striker, and one of the best known, respected and popular "anti agreement" republicans die in a British jail.

    You left anti-peace process convicted terrorist out of your description of the old dear. But I have a solution. Move her to an Irish prison and let her die there. You won't have the Brits to blame then.
    republicans dying in jails has always stirred up more publicity and support for their cause. This was the case with McSweeney, it was the case with Marian Price's comrades on hunger strike, Michael Gaughan and later Frank Stagg, it was the case, especially so, with the ten in '81 and it will be a case of history repeating itself if Marian Price dies because of her incarceration.

    Yes. You are stuck in history. The country has moved on, it has rejected terrorism and voted with 94% /71% for the Good Friday Agreement. There is no place in society for anti-peace thugs, even if they have pneumonia.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 wicklowbiker


    whitelines wrote: »
    Sinn Fein, let alone The SDLP, aren't going anywhere. If SF pulls out of Stormont then it's leadership strategy will have failed and have been seen to fail. The vanity of SF's key players would not allow this to happen. It's possible that The SDLP would then take SF's executive positions, permanently freezing SF out. Most northern Catholics like devolved government within The UK and they'd not reward any party that put that system in jeopardy.

    No, whatever happens in the prisons, the dye has been cast. There's no going back.
    SF aren't going to be pulling out of Stormont over Price or the others, their vote is going to continue to rise not just in the north but very definitely in the south also. If anyone is going nowhere, it's unionism as Peter Robinson let the cat out of the bag - " Peter Robinson has acknowledged that he could be Northern Ireland's last unionist first minister. " http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-15803536
    whitelines wrote: »
    The vast majority of people in NI couldn't give a damn.
    Yes, the NI Office who have conjured up this situation had probably hoped it would snowball into a muck throwing exercise against SF which it is obvioulsy failing to do. Dp they seriously think that say the less than 1% who might dislike SF stance on the issue would switch their vote to the SDLP !!!!!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21 wicklowbiker


    astrofool wrote: »
    Ah, the Chamberlain tactic, that was a great success.
    I would have thought when it came to issueing threats, that the threat of " terrible and immediate war " in certain treaty negotiations would be more relevant to matters in Ireland ? Looks like the Dissos are only copying the British eh :)

    Regardless, Price and co. will be let out as the whole conjured scenario isn't snowballing against SF as the Brits and unionists would like.


This discussion has been closed.
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