Setting up/adding to a network/server

AnnaGram85 · 08-09-2011 8:12pm #1

Hi lads, I don't really know what I'm talking about here but figured I'd ask and see what help I get.

I'm a teacher in a school and teachers would like to share different files/websites without having to email absolutely everyone. Can you upload your file somewhere on your computer, think it's called a server? Anyway, if so, how do you set it up and manage it? If it's too difficult, I won't bother suggesting it as they're not very IT minded. Neither am I probably by the sounds of this question!!!

Random · 08-09-2011 8:21pm

I suggest you try something like www.dropbox.com and setup a shared folder (or multiple shared folders).

++ edit - didn't realise this was the servers forum when I posted, my idea might go against the point then!

PogMoThoin · 08-09-2011 8:21pm

Dropbox is possibly the easiest way with very little setting up. Just make a shared folder and invite others to it, then whatever you place in there gets synced to everyone (with incremental backups)

Edit: ninja'd

AnnaGram85 · 08-09-2011 8:28pm

Thanks guys, gonna look into this. Sounds easy anyway!

qwertz · 09-09-2011 1:27pm

If those file contain confidential or priviledged information then you should get legal advice before using a free and at times unsecure online service.

rolion · 09-09-2011 6:20pm

I had a simillar project in a primary school...teachers were told to use an online service ,upload files and share and so on,great marketing and sales lines.

...BUT...

-the internet connection was 5m/512k,so it made practically sometimes impossible to upload files...
-numerous calls to NCTE for line faults
-they had to log-in on that online service,leaving usernames and passwords remembered on so many desktops that was running as a joke from security perspective
-not so user friendly and nasty web interface,teachers not wanting to learn new things so easy and not-so-friendly
-i had to put the plug on the online service after they called me once to analyse the network and fix it.

Some other company advised for another online service,another advised for a internal NAS and i advised for a full Microsoft network,built around a Server 2003.

Guess who won it !???

Microsoft...

I have installed a server,created profiles for students,for teachers (private folders,common shared folders) and shared folders teachers-to-students.Installed Network Services,shared printers(that was amazing thing for them...).Installed shared games on the server,created local applications shared on the server for kids... ALL delighted !!!

No issues so far,all happy and using the internal resources to do the work and ...teaching the pupils !!!

Having an internal "storage" and "manager" on your network gives a big advantage over to so called "online" service,when your internal network design,performance and running suffers big time !!!

But all these is based on a so small and cut already IT Budget,as many schools have spent the grants on smart boards,visualisers and desktops,leaving a small amount for network,server and software...

Regards.

Mr. Fancypants · 10-09-2011 1:48pm

Cheapest solution using your existing network is to create a network share on one of your pcs which will allow the other staff access. Bear the following in mind though

1. A maximum of 10 connections to the pc is allowed due to it running a client operating system
2. The pc has to be on if users want access to the data
3. The data may not be backed up unless you are backing up the pc already?
4. If you don't have a domain (sounds like you dont) you will need to create a local account on each machine with the same username and password to make it work.

rolion · 10-09-2011 9:36pm

mbroaders wrote: »

Cheapest solution using your existing network is to create a network share on one of your pcs which will allow the other staff access. Bear the following in mind though

1. A maximum of 10 connections to the pc is allowed due to it running a client operating system
2. The pc has to be on if users want access to the data
3. The data may not be backed up unless you are backing up the pc already?
4. If you don't have a domain (sounds like you dont) you will need to create a local account on each machine with the same username and password to make it work.

1.What will happen when 11th teacher will try to connect or to print,as the 10 previous connections being cached locally !??? Teacher gets frustrated and lose interest in the scenario !

2.Can you explain to one teacher that he/she has to keep PC on,but what if he forgets and/or the cleaner turns off the main switch !??? Teacher gets frustrated and lose interest in the scenario !

3/4 Same Qs same answer: Teacher gets frustrated and lose interest in the scenario ! Evenn with guest accounts,going back to Q1 and Q2.

In a teaching environment the teacher wants to be able to use the resources AND teach !!! Not doing the IT troubleshouting why the 11th user gets access denied due to share limits restriction.
No way...not in a real teaching world with 25-30 smiley faces waiting for that game to play !!!

So,anything that a server is not satisfying the minimum requirement:teacher satisfaction/expectation level to IT exposure... been there,done that ,know that !

Regards.

AnnaGram85 · 11-09-2011 12:36am

Thanks for all the responses.

Couldn't figure out how to use Dropbox. If I can't, the teachers at school will definitely find it too difficult. I just want to upload something into a folder, and for other teachers be able to view it. Theree won't be anything confidential - it's literally just templates/websites/policies and that. But. Couldn't figure it out. Maybe I'll try agfain tomorrow. Too tired now.

swampgas · 11-09-2011 8:56am

AnnaGram85 wrote: »

Hi lads, I don't really know what I'm talking about here but figured I'd ask and see what help I get.

I'm a teacher in a school and teachers would like to share different files/websites without having to email absolutely everyone. Can you upload your file somewhere on your computer, think it's called a server? Anyway, if so, how do you set it up and manage it? If it's too difficult, I won't bother suggesting it as they're not very IT minded. Neither am I probably by the sounds of this question!!!

An alternative you might consider:

Contact a local Linux User Group (LUG) and ask them to set up a Linux server on an old or unsed PC, or even in a Virtual machine running on one of your windows boxes. All the Linux server would have to do is act as a print and file share server, which is a no-brainer for anyone into Linux.
No 10-client limits either.

Kinetic^ · 11-09-2011 11:21am

Samba share is the cheapest way to go. There's no real need to invest in a windows server at all.

PlanIT Computing · 11-09-2011 2:29pm

mbroaders wrote: »

Cheapest solution using your existing network is to create a network share on one of your pcs which will allow the other staff access. Bear the following in mind though

1. A maximum of 10 connections to the pc is allowed due to it running a client operating system
4. If you don't have a domain (sounds like you dont) you will need to create a local account on each machine with the same username and password to make it work.

1 - the maximum connection limit of 10 is for Professional editions, not for home or basic. For home / basic it's limited to 5.

4 - Easier to enable guest account in their case and set privileges for guest account.

OP: How many computers are we talking about here?

DublinDilbert · 11-09-2011 2:38pm

AnnaGram85 wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses.

Couldn't figure out how to use Dropbox. If I can't, the teachers at school will definitely find it too difficult. I just want to upload something into a folder, and for other teachers be able to view it. Theree won't be anything confidential - it's literally just templates/websites/policies and that. But. Couldn't figure it out. Maybe I'll try agfain tomorrow. Too tired now.

What could you not understand about drop box? Did you install the program? Create an account? Pop some files into you folder?

If the files aren't massive the likes of dropbox would be the easiest solution, as it requires no IT support on site, just a working internet connection.

If you want onsite storage you could use a cheap western digital NAS with Ethernet connection. You'll need some protection, so unauthorised users/PCs on the network can access it.

No mater what system you implement your users are going to have to do some learning.

AnnaGram85 · 11-09-2011 5:47pm

Downloaded it, put some files in. Couldn't figure out how to access the files from another laptop!!!

Looking to network about 12 computers in total,whether all 12 will utilise the facility or not remains to be seen, but have to aim to set it up for 12 anyway.

swampgas · 11-09-2011 8:22pm

DublinDilbert wrote: »

If you want onsite storage you could use a cheap western digital NAS with Ethernet connection. You'll need some protection, so unauthorised users/PCs on the network can access it.

Actually, this really is the easiest way to get a Linux Samba share on the network ... seconded.

qwertz · 12-09-2011 2:10pm

No offence but the last thing a non-technical teacher needs is a Samba or Linux server setup on some old PC by a non-professional 3rd party without any support agreement. They, as any non-technical customer, need a simple and straightforward system that they can administer or be talked through over the phone if/when something goes wrong.

For that you can hardly beat a Windows Small Business Server or a properly managed hosted solution.

DublinDilbert · 12-09-2011 3:09pm

AnnaGram85 wrote: »

Downloaded it, put some files in. Couldn't figure out how to access the files from another laptop!!!

Looking to network about 12 computers in total,whether all 12 will utilise the facility or not remains to be seen, but have to aim to set it up for 12 anyway.

Ok so there's a few ways you can access your files.

1) You can go to any web-browser, any where in the world, log into dropbox.com with your user name/password and get your files.

2) You can install the dropbox application on another PC and give it your user name/password and it will now sync the files on the second PC with them on the first.

3) You can right click on any folder in your dropbox and go to the dropbox menu and select "share", this will create a share which other people can then see. These other people will need to have drop box installed.

4) You can download the iphone/ipad app and have access to your files from there.

5) If your files don't have to be kept secret you can put them in the public folder and generate a link, which can then be emailed to other people. This gets around emailing large attachments or fire-walls that reject certain files (Eg zip files).

rolion · 12-09-2011 3:11pm

Any school has a well defined IT Budget.The price that a school pays for Microsoft titles are a fraction of the business:less than a 100 for s Server 2008 or less than 200 for SBS2011.Also,in none of my schools Linux is present and it won't be in the near future. Is easier to "talk" with the teacher by mouse rather than CLI...experience for years prove it to me!

I reckon that for less than €2k you can get a fully working,trouble free Microsoft network,including support one-to-one technical or non-technical and peace of mind for at least 5 (five) years.

If the OP will send me an email address by PM,i can forward you a discounted quotation ,plan of action and references.

Any action is better than no action...

Regards.

Kinetic^ · 13-09-2011 3:31pm

You can setup a samba server with an old PC lying around the school, cost of linux will be nothing. So that's a €2k saving.

swampgas · 13-09-2011 3:52pm

qwertz wrote: »

No offence but the last thing a non-technical teacher needs is a Samba or Linux server setup on some old PC by a non-professional 3rd party without any support agreement. They, as any non-technical customer, need a simple and straightforward system that they can administer or be talked through over the phone if/when something goes wrong.

For that you can hardly beat a Windows Small Business Server or a properly managed hosted solution.

True, which is why buying a NAS (which usually has Linux/Samba already installed but behind a nice web front end) is a better alternative.

You can also get larger NAS unit's with RAID if you want more reliability.

rolion · 13-09-2011 6:55pm

just to clear few things in my mind...
12 PCs with no network (DNS/DHCP/Users) set-up to access a NAS box !Somewhere, down the line of networking rules tells me that is not going to work for the average teacher !
How do you access the NAS ? By name ? By IP ?
By...guessing today's IP configuration !??

Or a good source of making calls out charges for the IT chap by fixing network cables every day :blame the power spikes,power supply,user fault !

I reckon to get basic things first and then ... let's talk about Windows and / or Linux !!

Regards.

rolion · 13-09-2011 7:03pm

Kinetic^ wrote: »

You can setup a samba server with an old PC lying around the school, cost of linux will be nothing. So that's a €2k saving.

Savings ?? None ,even if is Linux or Windows !
I have deployed IT solutions across schools and all teachers asked me to get something that will keep them running for 5 years at least ! AND,they want to teach not to fix !
How do you fix a Linux box over the phone with a teacher !???

I know a site that pays €24k per annum to a chap just because it runs on Linux ! Change that site to Microsoft and you won't pay more than €5k full support !

Old PC ??? You serious ?!! I have few P3s and P4s ready to be dumped to Recycling Centre due to no-one service them as the hardware life cycle had reached EndOfLife ! You know that,why you r say it here !
Spend time getting Linux installed on an old desktop,then PC dies and...what !?

ALL schools got big IT grants,spent with no or little planning for the future or expandability !
What you want is full experience for the users !
Set-IT and forget-IT !

Regards.

PlanIT Computing · 14-09-2011 7:32pm

rolion wrote: »

Savings ?? None ,even if is Linux or Windows !
I have deployed IT solutions across schools and all teachers asked me to get something that will keep them running for 5 years at least ! AND,they want to teach not to fix !
How do you fix a Linux box over the phone with a teacher !???

I know a site that pays €24k per annum to a chap just because it runs on Linux ! Change that site to Microsoft and you won't pay more than €5k full support !

Old PC ??? You serious ?!! I have few P3s and P4s ready to be dumped to Recycling Centre due to no-one service them as the hardware life cycle had reached EndOfLife ! You know that,why you r say it here !
Spend time getting Linux installed on an old desktop,then PC dies and...what !?

ALL schools got big IT grants,spent with no or little planning for the future or expandability !
What you want is full experience for the users !
Set-IT and forget-IT !

Regards.

For what the OP is looking for, savings CAN be made. A simple linux box, samba shares and a static IP is all that's required. I presume DNS / DHCP is already handled by the router / firewall in place.

rolion · 14-09-2011 9:21pm

PlanIT Computing wrote: »

For what the OP is looking for, savings CAN be made. A simple linux box, samba shares and a static IP is all that's required. I presume DNS / DHCP is already handled by the router / firewall in place.

How much will you charge for designing ,implementing,training and supporting the solution !? Take that charge from the IT grant of around €5 to €10k.

Keep in mind that the OP hasn't provided full information regarding the network AND most of the routers suplied by NCTE/Heanet gives dynamic public IPs and external DNSs.You have control over them,only by phone to their helpdesk.

Regards.

PlanIT Computing · 14-09-2011 9:59pm

rolion wrote: »

How much will you charge for designing ,implementing,training and supporting the solution !? Take that charge from the IT grant of around €5 to €10k.

No one has mentioned anything about charging a fee nor have we advised it. The fact is, savings can be made by going through the solution above.

Whilst technical expertise is required, it doesn't automatically imply a bill of €,€€€'s.

rolion wrote: »

Keep in mind that the OP hasn't provided full information regarding the network AND most of the routers suplied by NCTE/Heanet gives dynamic public IPs and external DNSs.You have control over them,only by phone to their helpdesk.

Regards.

I'm not sure why this has any relevance to accessing an internal samba server from the internal network via an internal IP address. I'd be really surprised if the 12 workstations have all been issued public addresses but can only make assumptions due to the OP's vagueness!

Kinetic^ · 15-09-2011 12:44pm

rolion wrote: »

How much will you charge for designing ,implementing,training and supporting the solution !? Take that charge from the IT grant of around €5 to €10k.

I really hope you are joking with the amount of crap you've been spouting. They're looking for a network drive. A simple samba server, run of an old PC with 2-3 hard drives would work fine. Training consists of showing someone how to "Save as" and changing the location. Accessing the information can be shortened by creating a desktop shortcut.

There is nothing else they require. I do hope you're not over selling every client you come across, particularly those in the education sector who are not exactly flush.

rolion · 15-09-2011 5:14pm

Removed previous post...too much talk from me,i have better things to 'argue' !

Let me tell you that all my school/educational customers are teaching while i take care of their IT infrastrcture!

Re prices..."we are too poor to buy twice" ! I am talking from over 10 years of dealing with Educational Market,not "ass.u.me"-ing or guessing !

Unsubscribed from this topic !
Regards and good luck to all of us.

gerryk · 16-09-2011 4:43pm

rolion wrote: »

too much talk from me

You got that bit right

PogMoThoin · 16-09-2011 9:29pm

AnnaGram85 wrote: »

Couldn't figure out how to use Dropbox.

If that's the case, maybe you shouldn't be the one trying. I think you need to pay whoever looks after the schools IT to setup a system for you and teach all how to use it.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-09-2011 10:25am

+1 for a NAS box

consider getting one with two drives so they are mirrored , otherwise there is a 1% chance per year of loosing all the data due to hardware failure, or backup the files, or worry about it when it happens as loosing all the data probably isn't the end of the world

if you want security you can encrypt files - that's a separate topic, but if using windows you can use EFS , just make sure to make the password disk and remember no-one else can see the files ever

re-read the manual - give it to a techie
for example the default setting on some LaCie boxes is to share everything via anonymous ftp (sorta defeats the passwords / usernames you can setup elsewhere)

setting the box up with a static IP address without a gateway makes it very difficult to access from the interweb (they can still go via a local PC but security is made layers)

Setting up/adding to a network/server

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