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Aldi site Clonsilla road

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭oblivious


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    Here it is http://documents.fingalcoco.ie/NorthgatePublicDocs/00482815.pdf


    There final submitted drawings looks a bit different to the one you got from the architects site

    aldi_zpsa5ffdcb2.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Finglas Incubus


    oblivious wrote: »
    There final submitted drawings looks a bit different to the one you got from the architects site

    It is...the original plan was from 2008 if I remember correctly.

    The Planning Report and Retail Impact Statement (link here) makes for an interesting read. It contains a couple of tenuous arguments relating to restaurant demand and traffic impact (traffic impact study here) but they'll likely be weeded out by the planning process.

    Aldi have done a much better job this time of meeting many of the key stipulations contained in the previous refusals and the proposal is more in keeping with the requirements of the Fingal and Clonsilla development strategies / plans. There remains questions over the setting of precedent with future development in mind, the validity of the traffic study in real terms (need to consider permission being sought for housing development at nearby Weavers Walk) and how / if Aldi will control communal / commuter parking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭oblivious


    It is...the original plan was from 2008 if I remember correctly.

    Ah ok :)
    The Planning Report and Retail Impact Statement (link here) makes for an interesting read. It contains a couple of tenuous arguments relating to restaurant demand and traffic impact (traffic impact study here) but they'll likely be weeded out by the planning process.

    Aldi have done a much better job this time of meeting many of the key stipulations contained in the previous refusals and the proposal is more in keeping with the requirements of the Fingal and Clonsilla development strategies / plans. There remains questions over the setting of precedent with future development in mind, the validity of the traffic study in real terms (need to consider permission being sought for housing development at nearby Weavers Walk) and how / if Aldi will control communal / commuter parking.

    Yea there are a few developments still to start at will only add more traffic to the road network of the area. The Weavers Walk traffic study looked to be more critical of their development and that was with out the presence of a supermarket!

    I also though the Fingal wanted access at the end of the developed to develop the canal area. That can happen with the current plans


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭ozmo


    That can happen with the current plans

    Yeah I was looking st the incorrect plans posted above- maybe they should be removed?- the real plans do look a bit closer to what Fingal want with the straight road to the canal.

    .

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭oblivious


    ozmo wrote: »
    Yes I was looking st the incorrect plans posted above- maybe they should be removed?- the real plans do look a bit closer to what Fingal want with the straight road to the canal.

    .

    There was a drawing knocking around of what Fingal wanted from the site. The
    Aldi plans just look like access way rather than what they envisioned for the sight


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Yes - here are the suggested plans from Fingal - I think they are amazing and we shouldn't accept easily anything less.

    Yes, the argument is there is no current boom - but that is no reason to accept something that would be prevent a decent upgrade of the village over the next years to come - any planning done now will be there for a very very long time.


    2d1n28y.jpg

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    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭oblivious


    ozmo wrote: »
    Yes - here are the suggested plans from Fingal - I think they are amazing and we shouldn't accept easily anything less.

    Yes, the argument is there is no current boom - but that is no reason to accept something that would be prevent a decent upgrade of the village over the next years to come - any planning done now will be there for a very very long time.


    2d1n28y.jpg

    Looks like Aldi are only developing only a part of what Fingal are looking for (marked in Blue). I though they owned all of that site ?

    aldosite_zpsfc909675.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,117 ✭✭✭✭MrJoeSoap


    oblivious wrote: »
    Looks like Aldi are only developing only a part of what Fingal are looking for (marked in Blue). I though they owned all of that site ?

    aldosite_zpsfc909675.png

    My understanding was that Aldi owned the land that is currently fenced in. The land adjacent to it that was formerly a scrap yard of sorts was separately owned... I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 jazzrocket


    The addition of Aldi to Clonsilla Village will be a good thing, I think many many people will walk there


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭ozmo


    if anyone wants go...

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    “Roll it back”



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  • Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭Finglas Incubus


    ozmo wrote: »
    if anyone wants go...

    Wanted to get along but had to work Monday evening. Did anyone attend, if so, what was the general reaction?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Leo Varadkar and others were available there talking to everyone.

    Wasn't a huge turnout it has to be said in the church yesterday where the plans were on display- Lots of interesting info from the locals...

    I think this is an old builders trick whereby they put through planning just before Christmas in the hope of everybody being too busy.

    If anyone has any concerns or suggestions there is another meeting happening tonight (wed 17th) in Westmanstown Garda club 8PM. And any submissions have to be in before next tuesday

    I'm in two minds about it - I can see the attraction of it but My concern is the heavy goods traffic on a very tight road, the increased hassle a discount off-licence will bring and the large scale not suitable for a village setting or in keeping with the Much better ideas in Fingal CoCo Development plan..


    If Castleknock can reject Lidl in favour of a line of little shops (adding to the village rather than taking it over) - why cannot Clonsilla?

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭The Dark Knight


    ozmo wrote: »
    ....... not suitable for a village setting or in keeping with the Much better ideas in Fingal CoCo Development plan..

    If Castleknock can reject Lidl in favour of a line of little shops (adding to the village rather than taking it over) - why cannot Clonsilla?

    Well said ozmo!
    My main problem is that we will loose any opportunity to fulfil the Fingal Development Plan.
    This area (including the adjacent plot of land) is the last opportunity to add to Clonsilla Village. We have enough shopping centres and retail parks around to fulfil the Large Retail type of shopping experience.

    I don't mind a small supermarket, but there should be provision for a pedestrianised area/street, with a number of smaller independent shops.

    Meeting the other night was OK. Good thing more people didn't turn out. The Church was a bit cramped.
    Felt the counsellors were sitting on the fence a bit. Really seeing if this is a battle worth supporting.
    Most people were objecting on the grounds of Traffic, Delivery Lorries and protecting the village scene.


  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Rosser


    ozmo wrote: »

    If Castleknock can reject Lidl in favour of a line of little shops (adding to the village rather than taking it over) - why cannot Clonsilla?

    I hope you're right but Lidl appealed to An Bord Plenala and the decision is due tomorrow. Don't live in Clonsilla but isn't there enough supermarkets around already?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭oblivious


    Well said ozmo!
    My main problem is that we will loose any opportunity to fulfil the Fingal Development Plan.
    This area (including the adjacent plot of land) is the last opportunity to add to Clonsilla Village. We have enough shopping centres and retail parks around to fulfil the Large Retail type of shopping experience.

    I don't mind a small supermarket, but there should be provision for a pedestrianised area/street, with a number of smaller independent shops

    Well said both of you


  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Rosser


    Lidl we're turned down following today's decision from An Bord Plenala, their reasons seem to be as appropriate for Clonsilla as they are for Castleknock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 jazzrocket


    I really hope it gets the go ahead, I didn't have a car recently for few weeks and it was 40 mins walk to Lidl over in Blakestown or slightly longer to Blanchardstown the local Spar only has very basic things... I tried the bus but it takes as long and its hard work with shopping...I think of villages like Clonee which were pretty much dead before Lidl opened up

    I called Aldi and they said the only 1 truck per day will deliver to the store and it will likely be at between 8pm & 11pm so outside peak


    There will be some local jobs aswell...even part time ones which are good for parents

    I think if Aldi dont get the planning that site will just be left there with no advantage to anyone

    (I dont favour Aldi - just want a local supermarket that has more then local Spar)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,475 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    jazzrocket wrote: »
    I really hope it gets the go ahead, I didn't have a car recently for few weeks and it was 40 mins walk to Lidl over in Blakestown or slightly longer to Blanchardstown the local Spar only has very basic things... I tried the bus but it takes as long and its hard work with shopping
    This is where Tesco or SuperValu delivering to your home becomes very useful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    daymobrew wrote: »
    This is where Tesco or SuperValu delivering to your home becomes very useful.

    And for people that can't afford tesco and Supervalu prices??


  • Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Rosser


    January wrote: »
    And for people that can't afford tesco and Supervalu prices??
    Fair point but not reason enough to allow an Aldi there at the expense of all other considerations.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭ozmo


    Front page of the local newspaper "Blanchardstown Gazette" - only place I see it mentioned in printed media apart from the letters distributed from local politicians.

    Article is online also here:
    http://www.gazettegroup.com/news/aldi-plan-sparks-traffic-concern/


    "...they only assessed the impact that this development would have on traffic between 4pm and 7pm in the evening"

    "Cllr David McGuinness (FF) also expressed his concerns..."

    "Deputy Mayor of Fingal, Ted Leddy (FG), said: “...People can put in objections and I am recommending that they do so, because that at the very least lets the planners know that the locals demand a high standard of development."

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭KingMambo26


    In the Fingal Co Co website it say that objections to planning applications can be read in the website but cannot see to find them. Does anybody know where to look for them?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 11,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    If you search for the planning application number (FW14A/0144) on this page: http://www.fingal.ie/planning-and-buildings/apply-or-search-for-a-planning-application/search-planning-applications-online/searchplanningapplicationsonline/ it should come up. Objections are filed under the Documents tab as far as I can see along with all other documentation, traffic assessment reports etc.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 11,918 Mod ✭✭✭✭miamee


    There are only 3 objections, one each from Spar and Tesco and one local resident - listed under Observation/Submissions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭stevekavo


    The clonsilla road can be bad enough with the lights,schools, garage and train station all contributing to the traffic flow. Throw in aldi, an off lcence,a load of apartments and a creche trying to get up and down the road will be a nightmare. This is not to mention the safety concern for the kids and parents that have to walk up and down the road to the schools.

    I submitted my objection today as it just won't work due to the traffic congestion it will create also it is going to really look out of place along the road.

    People only have until tomorrow to object. The more the better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,716 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I'd agree with the above, there are far more appropriate locations nearby like Coolmine business park which has some empty sites.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 jazzrocket


    Good to see so few objections, national retailers will object to everything ........ at this rate we might have a new supermarket by next christmas...Aldi build stores fast...only one personal objections .....Funny the only private objector doesn't even live in the area.... they live more than 2KM away and beside a Lidl..... I guess we are lucky to have such an open planning system


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭ozmo


    jazzrocket wrote: »
    so few objections... only one personal objections .....Funny the only private objector doesn't even live in the area.... they live more than 2KM away and beside a Lidl..... I guess we are lucky to have such an open planning system


    I can see 21 objections - and only 1 in favor

    15 are personal submissions - one in particular very detailed.
    4 are group objections from neighboring Estates and Residents Associations

    and 2 are objections from other shops.

    The main 2 points are Traffic and the deviation from Fingals plan for the Village - but there are lots of other interesting points raised also, like operational noise, issues during construction(unspecified road lane closures?), waste of a chance for public canal amenity (think Ashtown/12th Lock), landlocking in others properties from road access, parking issues, large car parks rather than public greenspace, buildings not in keeping with a village setting etc....

    “Roll it back”



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,015 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    None of the thousands of houses in the area are in keeping with a village setting. There is no distinctive village centre in Clonsilla.

    As for traffic... Where are these future customers going to come from and where are they currently doing their shopping? Surely overall traffic is reduced as one 40 foot lorry brings the stuff much closer to the customers so they either don't need to drive or don't need to drive as far as before to get their shopping.

    I suppose people really mean "traffic right at this location" will get worse but it will relieve traffic elsewhere presumably and that is what the planners have to bear in mind. I bet all or most of the objectors happily drive to the next German discounter without two cares about the traffic they are causing for nearby residents.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,865 ✭✭✭✭January


    Exactly, smacks of NIMBYism. Mulhuddart would have had bad traffic but an aldi has only added to the area.


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