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Cycling/Walking around the city

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,842 ✭✭✭Micilin Muc


    jjpep wrote: »
    Has anyone el come across the nut job who drives his scooter on the cycle lane and footpath going over the quincentianal bridge. Seen him several times over the last few months. Anyway tonight he undertook me by going on the footpath while I was in the cycle lane. Unfortunately he wasn't at the lights when I got there so didn't get his registration no.

    I think I might have come across this nut job. I was cycling in the hard shoulder on the N59 out to Moycullen and he overtook me without crossing the line of the hard shoulder with about 1 foot to spare. I should have pushed him over. The road was virtually empty.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    You could drive a car on the footpath past them trees, what obstruction are they causing. Bah humbug is right!


    In Galway if there is room on the footpath for a car, whether parked or in motion, then by definition there is no obstruction.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    New street lights (which I presume are LEDs) are being installed along the Western Distributor Road. Not elsewhere in the city, afaik.

    I think this is a major improvement. Apart from the energy saving aspect, the light quality of LEDs is far superior to the standard sodium lamps. There may even be a safety benefit. I have long been of the opinion that those orange lights greatly reduce visibility, which affects both road safety and personal security.

    332000.jpg

    332001.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,868 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    New street lights (which I presume are LEDs) are being installed along the Western Distributor Road. Not elsewhere in the city, afaik.

    I think this is a major improvement. Apart from the energy saving aspect, the light quality of LEDs is far superior to the standard sodium lamps. There may even be a safety benefit.
    Agree they are a major improvement.
    Less light pollution from them too. They are also installed in the IDA industrial estates in Parkmore East/West - possibly also in other IDA estates in the City? Don't know any City streets they are installed on though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    Not a fan of the harsh white light. Isn't red(er) light better to maintain good night vision, the pupil keeps open wider allowing you to expose lower light areas...?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    There's more to street lighting (and lighting types) than meets the eye. :)

    I'll try to post more on this later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sodium Lamps on the right, LED on the left. Which provides the greater level of visibility? Which do you prefer?

    332146.jpg


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Be careful out there, the roads are covered in wet multicoloured motor exhaust emissions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    When I was in town over the weekend I noticed that the junction on Cross Street where High Street meets Quay Street (outside Neachtains) is now one big zebra crossing giving pedestrians priority over cars.

    Is this a very recent change? Hadn't noticed it until Saturday but the markings didn't look like they'd just been laid either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭thesandeman


    They have been there for years but were never repainted until last week. It still hasn't stopped the cars flying through the junction or taxis parking on the crossing though. I don't think the placement of the stop signs really helps either.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    Well no sign of them on the 2014 or 2009 street views.

    6RxhB2.png

    But I see both pedestrians and cars had a "Stop" line.

    6qAw5i.png


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    They're new.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭thesandeman


    I'm certain there was something there originally. Maybe I'm thinking of the Stop lines.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    I'm certain there was something there originally. Maybe I'm thinking of the Stop lines.
    Cobbles


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    snubbleste wrote: »
    Cobbles


    Correct. There was no pedestrian-priority crossing.

    However, the continuation of the cobbles across the junction from High Street to Quay Street meant that pesky pedestrians just kept walking, as if it were the natural thing to do in the circumstances.

    This caused upset in some quarters, iirc, and so the tarmac was relaid on Cross Street, reallocating priority to motorised traffic on narrow mediaeval streets in one of the most popular parts of the city for tourists and citizens alike.

    I'm delighted to hear that a zebra crossing has been installed. I hope it works as intended, and that motorists always give right of way to pedestrians, as required by law.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    As an example of the way walking is systematically restricted in some areas of the city, it took me 3.5 minutes to cross the road at Moneenageisha Cross last week. The physical distance is just over 20 metres, but crossing in three stages, conscientiously waiting for the Green Man, took an absurdly long time. Meanwhile motorised traffic was whizzing through the junction in all directions, with only short wait times.

    342331.jpg


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    Yesterday evening there was a sign plonked at Cross/Middle junction effectively closing the one way system in town. Garda Checkpoint Ahead
    Of course there was no checkpoint.

    University Pharmacy on Newcastle Rd have put two massive flower boxes outside their premises, removing 2 car parking spaces. It'll just shift all the cars onto the busy footpath


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    They often close off Cross Street on busy pedestrian days / nights with a barrier that they swing closed down at Flood Street. I suppose they'd need that extra sign to stop any cars already on St. Augustine Street from going across Cross Street.


  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭GDSGR8


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    As an example of the way walking is systematically restricted in some areas of the city, it took me 3.5 minutes to cross the road at Moneenageisha Cross last week. The physical distance is just over 20 metres, but crossing in three stages, conscientiously waiting for the Green Man, took an absurdly long time. Meanwhile motorised traffic was whizzing through the junction in all directions, with only short wait times.

    What were the wait times for the traffic??


  • Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭GDSGR8


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    As an example of the way walking is systematically restricted in some areas of the city, it took me 3.5 minutes to cross the road at Moneenageisha Cross last week. The physical distance is just over 20 metres, but crossing in three stages, conscientiously waiting for the Green Man, took an absurdly long time. Meanwhile motorised traffic was whizzing through the junction in all directions, with only short wait times.

    What were the wait times for the motorised traffic??


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    When I arrived by car earlier the traffic was backed up along Moneenageisha Road as far as Cemetery Cross. I was in a hurry, so I parked nearby, just off the Tuam Road, and decided to walk to my destination on the Dublin Road. By the time I parked the car, which took just a couple of minutes, the traffic had cleared. It was the speed with which the traffic cleared the junction that prompted me to compare the pedestrian experience. Crossing on foot took a lot longer, because of the way the traffic lights are configured.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    When I arrived by car earlier the traffic was backed up along Moneenageisha Road as far as Cemetery Cross. I was in a hurry, so I parked nearby, just off the Tuam Road, and decided to walk to my destination on the Dublin Road. By the time I parked the car, which took just a couple of minutes, the traffic had cleared. It was the speed with which the traffic cleared the junction that prompted me to compare the pedestrian experience. Crossing on foot took a lot longer, because of the way the traffic lights are configured.

    You're one awful hard man to please. ;)

    First the RAB's are dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians, they get replaced and now include measures specifically to make the junctions safer for cyclists and pedestrians.

    Now you complain about having to wait just over a minute each to go through 3 junction crossings safely.

    I class myself as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist, in that order, in relation to road usage and road safety and I truly am baffled by your objections sometimes. It's like nothing is ever good enough


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Now you complain about having to wait just over a minute each to go through 3 junction crossings safely.

    I class myself as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist, in that order, in relation to road usage and road safety and I truly am baffled by your objections sometimes. It's like nothing is ever good enough

    In my view, and I am not alone, the manner in which this junction and the other roundabout replacements were set up is quite clearly abusive and contemptuous of people travelling on foot.

    Specifically - on some arms pedestrians are expected to press a button and wait for a green man even when the lights on that arm are going to be red for cars anyway. There is no logical safety or traffic management reason for forcing pedestrians to wait at every stage in the sequence.

    Therefore the decision to impose this on people who walk was made for some other reason - possibly to give physical expression to a social construct based around particular conceptions of social status and social hierarchies.

    If you expect any group to express tolerance of abusive and inconsiderate behaviour towards them by others you will often be disappointed.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 5,620 ✭✭✭El_Dangeroso


    Specifically - on some arms pedestrians are expected to press a button and wait for a green man even when the lights on that arm are going to be red for cars anyway. There is no logical safety or traffic management reason for forcing pedestrians to wait at every stage in the sequence.

    This drives me berserk and is especially bad on the bodkin junction. You'd be waiting nearly 4 minutes for the green man even though the lights have gone red 3-4 times in the meantime. It's fine for me because I know the junction and the lights sequence off by heart now, but I think it would cause other pedestrians to take unnecessary risks.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Specifically - on some arms pedestrians are expected to press a button and wait for a green man even when the lights on that arm are going to be red for cars anyway. There is no logical safety or traffic management reason for forcing pedestrians to wait at every stage in the sequence.

    I'll grant you, that one does defy logic


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    You're one awful hard man to please. ;)

    First the RAB's are dangerous for cyclists and pedestrians, they get replaced and now include measures specifically to make the junctions safer for cyclists and pedestrians.

    Now you complain about having to wait just over a minute each to go through 3 junction crossings safely.

    I class myself as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist, in that order, in relation to road usage and road safety and I truly am baffled by your objections sometimes. It's like nothing is ever good enough


    The Design Manual for Urban Roads & Streets agrees with me (though I do not agree with all of it).

    For example, it deprecates staged/staggered crossings for pedestrians, which it acknowledges are designed for the convenience of motorised traffic.

    Another instance of such pedestrian-hostile infrastructure is on the Seamus Quirke Road. Have a look there some morning or afternoon when children are trying to walk to or from school...


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Corinthian


    Therefore the decision to impose this on people who walk was made for some other reason - possibly to give physical expression to a social construct based around particular conceptions of social status and social hierarchies.

    So some fool didn't configure the traffic lights properly... and now you're being oppressed. Yes, it's annoying and should be fixed, but it's not the boot of the motor industry moguls on the neck of the pedestrian proletariat.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Corinthian wrote: »
    So some fool didn't configure the traffic lights properly... and now you're being oppressed. Yes, it's annoying and should be fixed, but it's not the boot of the motor industry moguls on the neck of the pedestrian proletariat.


    We could choose to believe that traffic signal timings have been set wrongly by mistake, and so pedestrians (and perhaps cyclists) are being held up by accident and not by design.

    But what about the junction layout? Did the engineers inadvertently create a junction that requires pedestrians to cross a short stretch of road in multiple stages? And did they apply similar designs in numerous other locations by mistake?

    We don't have to posit a conspiracy theory, or introduce spurious references to "motor industry moguls", to point out that transport policies and engineering practices have for decades been oriented towards prioritising the mobility of private motor vehicles over the access needs of pedestrians, cyclists and bus users.

    This is recognised in current policy, which seeks to redress the balance. From the Design Manual for Urban Roads and Streets:
    A paper given at a ‘Streets for Living’ Conference in Dublin in 1976 stated:
    ‘We are expecting from our human settlements the characteristics of streets in order to humanise them, particularly in our residential areas, and yet we have set our designers the task of designing and building and indeed maintaining what are undoubtedly roads … traffic taken in isolation can be a totally destructive force in the formation of human settlements.’

    The above has remained more accurate than ever, but given the extent to which policy and legal frameworks have advanced in recent years, it is now possible to achieve change.

    The Smarter Travel policy (2009) says that it will "ensure that urban walking networks are strengthened by increasing opportunities for walking and removing constraints as part of planning for more attractive public realms" such as by "reprioritising traffic signals to favour pedestrians instead of vehicles, reducing waiting times and crossing distances at junctions."

    Smarter Travel also says that
    Where staggered/staged crossings currently exist they should be removed as part of any major upgrade works. This should include realignment works to slow vehicle movements, such as reduced corner radii and/or carriageway narrowing.

    These policies recognise that traffic signals have been systematically configured to favour motor vehicles, but unfortunately they do not guarantee that local authority roads engineers design new junction layouts accordingly.

    Old habits die hard, and it is notoriously difficult to change the direction of decades of engineering practices which have been based not just on the supposed inevitability but also on the desirability of car-based personal mobility. The way road projects are implemented may indicate a dominant culture rather than a dastardly conspiracy.

    I came across a policy example recently. National policy is to reduce car dependence as well as CO2 emissions from the transport sector. The ESRI has pointed out that emissions from private cars will be well above the policy target by 2020. Meanwhile the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council sees increasing car sales as A Good Thing, as if tax policy and environmental policy had nothing to do with each other:
    Excise is forecast to grow 3.2 per cent, on the back of solid consumption growth and a rebounding car market.

    Roughly 3 per cent of annual consumption relates to the purchase of private transport equipment. Having contracted for several years, newly licensed private cars expanded by 30 per cent in the first eight months of 2014. An analysis of the determinants of vehicle purchases can help to shed light on whether or not car sales are likely to continue to improve in the coming years.

    That's "improve" and not merely "increase" or "grow".

    It's evident that private car transport still dominates not just the physical environment but also the policy-makers' minds. And when road engineers make pedestrians cross three times instead of just once, they're not doing it by mistake.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The Smarter Travel policy (2009)

    How likely are the current administration to promote a policy document that has Brian Cowen and Noel Dempsey's names, signatures and photos on the first few pages.... :rolleyes: :(


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,445 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I don't think it's a conspiracy, I imagine most road engineers involved where given the remit of handling car volumes as efficiently as possible, and at each junction, lip service to pedestrians as required. Every town and city has these issues in Ireland, I don't think this was planned but it is a result of a culture of only looking after on road traffic and ignoring pedestrians.

    Every town has the issue of green men only appearing when a button is pressed rather than everytime there should be no through traffic, several have the issue of short crossing times so it has to be a two step process, or in some cases staggered so in one direction its quick (when it does turn) but in the other you could be waiting several minutes.

    Terrible thing to say but it appears that it just never occurred to them that some people may walk.


This discussion has been closed.
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