Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Proposed Blasphemy Law

13567…20

Comments

  • #62
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Thank you for your email.

    As I am no longer a member of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Law Reform I will pass on your views to our parliamentary representatives on the Committee.


    Yours sincerely,

    Brendan Howlin, TD
    Leas-Cheann Comhairle


  • #63
    eightyfish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    Ditto. Fair dues to him for quick response. Oireachtas site still lists him as a member of said committee.


  • #64
    murrayp4
    Registered Users Posts: 969 ✭✭✭murrayp4


    p.s.- Blasphemy is a victimless crime... :-)


  • #65
    hamonrye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭hamonrye


    Thought crime anyone? didn't orwell warn us about this?

    im pretty certain this will never pass, mainly because it wouldnt hold up to supreme court or European scrutiny, even if it was pass through the dail.

    If the government think they can even propose this sort of legislation it shows severe incompetence on their part. Blasphemy? how can someone even consider that a crime in a civilised society. Its time to completely separate church from state. Religion does not deserve the current pedistal it sits on, let alone laws to protect it.

    Have to say i was very disappointed by pat rabbitts response, this should have been abhorred by other politicians. Do none of them have any balls?


  • #66
    Shacklebolt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Shacklebolt


    Zamboni wrote: »
    Thank you for your email.

    As I am no longer a member of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality and Law Reform I will pass on your views to our parliamentary representatives on the Committee.


    Yours sincerely,

    Brendan Howlin, TD
    Leas-Cheann Comhairle

    I got that as well. The others still havn't replied at all.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,708 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    Link to the podcast of the liveline show.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #68
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    Sent a letter to the Irish Times.

    Little worried about possible ramifications at work. (My atheism isn't explicit, but it's certainly implied, and I'd rather not lose students of religiously-minded parents over this. On the other hand, I don't like hiding.)


  • #69
    Handsome Bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,905 ✭✭✭✭Handsome Bob


    This wasn't exactly what I wanted. I don't think religion deserves to be shielded from criticism where it is warranted. What I wanted was for people of any race, sexuality, gender and religion to be able to live their lives without being made feel inferior by others. So yeah, I am in favour of people not being ridiculed for having beliefs that are central to how they live their life, and indeed, beliefs that give them strength to handle all of life's tough situations. However I don't think religion deserves protection when criticism is warranted. All I can say is that I hope religion will not be protected when it comes to criticising people for how they live their lives.


  • #70
    ceret
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭ceret


    hamonrye wrote: »
    im pretty certain this will never pass, mainly because it wouldnt hold up to supreme court or European scrutiny, even if it was pass through the dail.

    Well free speech can be limited to prevent blashphemy in the constitution...


  • #71
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,957 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    In the papers this morning, the Independent just reports the planned law (so far), but in the Irish Times, Carol Coulter comes out strongly against the plans.

    There's a thread about this on the Christianity forum, where they don't seem to like the idea either. The Islam forum doesn't appear to have noticed ... yet. :cool:

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



  • Advertisement
  • #72
    The Mad Hatter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,718 ✭✭✭The Mad Hatter


    bnt wrote: »
    In the papers this morning, the Independent just reports the planned law (so far), but in the Irish Times, Carol Coulter comes out strongly against the plans.

    There's a thread about this on the Christianity forum, where they don't seem to like the idea either. The Islam forum doesn't appear to have noticed ... yet. :cool:

    There's also a letter


  • #73
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Might as well email this numpty too.

    pat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ie
    head_office@labour.ie


  • #74
    excaliburhc
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭excaliburhc


    wouldnt this law make "the passion of the Christ" a prime target , remember the outroar from the jewish community when this came out ?


  • #75
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    Zamboni wrote: »
    dermot@dermotahern.ie

    Get to work folks.

    Dear Minister Ahern,

    It was troubling, to say the least, to read today that legislation setting out penalties for "blasphemy" will soon be introduced. By you.

    Can you possibly be serious?

    Your party and its government have done NOTHING to protect sexual minorities in Ireland, like, for instance, introducing the Civil Partnership legislation which has been promised again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

    Of course, we are used to Fianna Fáil reneging on its promises.

    But now you want to return Ireland to the Dark Ages, by legislating against "blasphemy"?

    Can you possibly be serious?


  • #76
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    Mena wrote: »
    George Carlin would have had a field day with this :(

    As would Frank Zappa. :(


  • #77
    toiletduck
    Registered Users Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭toiletduck


    No reply from Ahern. Maybe I should bebo him :pac:

    "Lolz u cant stop ppl 4m mockn relign r u rob us ov d rite 2 scrutinise"


  • #78
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I only found out this morning that apparently the Attorney General requested legislation as it's required by the constitution.

    Sounds like a band-aid when it's stitches that are required.


  • #79
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    Yoda wrote: »
    Dear Minister Ahern,

    It was troubling, to say the least, to read today that legislation setting out penalties for "blasphemy" will soon be introduced. By you.

    Can you possibly be serious?

    Your party and its government have done NOTHING to protect sexual minorities in Ireland, like, for instance, introducing the Civil Partnership legislation which has been promised again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

    Of course, we are used to Fianna Fáil reneging on its promises.

    But now you want to return Ireland to the Dark Ages, by legislating against "blasphemy"?

    Can you possibly be serious?
    mr ahern-we are getting a lot of stick lately from press you will need to stop this quickly so bring out blasphemy laws asap or we may have to report you to


  • #80
    Yoda
    Registered Users Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭Yoda


    Dades wrote: »
    I only found out this morning that apparently the Attorney General requested legislation as it's required by the constitution.

    Sounds like a band-aid when it's stitches that are required.

    More like a band-aid when it's amputation that is required.


  • #81
    Goduznt Xzst
    Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Goduznt Xzst


    Oh... I didn't realize we where sending serious emails :o. Here's what I sent

    "Dear Minister Ahern,

    God has to be the suckiest Sims player EVAR!!!!

    Attached: Ceiling_Cat.jpg
    Attached: Danish_Mohammed_Cartoon.jpg

    In before the lock!!! w00t!!!

    Sincerely: The Popes boyfriend"


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    Zamboni
    Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    I got a reply from Charlie Flanagan Fine Gael spokesperson for Justice.
    He said he will oppose it.


  • #83
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    I sent Ahern another e-mail, this is farcical, I will leave this country if this goes through, it is effectively a law against atheism.


  • #84
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    As they were saying on the radio this morning, Jedi Knight was classified as a religion in the last census...so those bible bashers better not dis the force :D


  • #85
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Stercus Accidit wrote: »
    I sent Ahern another e-mail, this is farcical, I will leave this country if this goes through, it is effectively a law against atheism.
    I really hope you didn't put that in your email.


  • #86
    CrazyStraighty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭CrazyStraighty


    Dear Member of the Oireachtas Committee of Justice,

    I wish to register my opposition to the definition of Blasphemy put
    forward by Minister Ahern to your committee.

    The issue is the wording of how to define what is Blasphemy. It was
    stated in the Irish times (30th April 2009) that

    “Blasphemous matter” is defined as matter “that is
    grossly abusive or insulting in relation to matters held sacred by any
    religion, thereby causing outrage among a substantial number of the
    adherents of that religion; and he or she intends, by the
    publication of the matter concerned, to cause such outrage.”

    I would urge the committee to consider what is Religion and how you
    will define that concept. As an Irish citizen, will I be prosecuted
    for pointing out that God does not exist and that in my opinion people
    who believe in an all seeing, all knowing omnipotent presence who
    defines morality for all human kind and shows us this morality through
    the bible, a book that has been edited, re-edited and translated
    dozens of time, are in fact naive and intellectually unstimulated?
    Will a Catholic be prosecuted for calling me a godless heathen and
    refusing to allow my children attend the local primary school and shun
    me due to my beliefs? Will members of the Church of the Flying
    Spagetti Monster be able to sue a journalist, a priest, a reverend, a
    rabbi, an atheist for pointing out that their religion seems a tad
    ridiculous?

    This amendment seeks to prosecute Irish citizens for expressing their
    opinions and offending other people. It is freedom of speech that
    allows us to hold an opinion, however obnoxious and ill informed, and
    tell anyone we wish. It is the freedom of speech that allows the
    person listening to object to what they hear. People hold prejudiced,
    biased, hateful opinions and I would prefer for them to be spoken
    aloud and argued against with evidence rather than to ask people to be
    silent.

    If this is passed, I will be checking how may members of the Church of
    the Flying Spaghetti Monster are based in Ireland. I will then insult
    them at every opportunity until a case is brought in front of an Irish
    court and then I will to have the state argue that I should be fined
    for not believing in the sanctity of the Flying Spaghetti Monster's
    noodly appendage.

    This is bad law based on a ridiculous standard. If free speech causes
    real harm, that can be taken up in other areas of the law. However,
    the law should not impede free speech and the freedom to express an
    opinion.


  • #87
    threeleggedhors
    Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭threeleggedhors


    Kind of ironic that if this law had been around when J.C. was telling everyone what was what that the Irish government could've nipped it in the bud and saved him all the persecution....:D


  • #88
    aineolach
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭aineolach


    hamonrye wrote: »
    Thought crime anyone? didn't orwell warn us about this?

    Not in my double-plus good edition of 1984.


  • #89
    Stercus Accidit
    Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Dades wrote: »
    I really hope you didn't put that in your email.

    No, it was far less over the top :P

    But I am livid at the moment.


    Besides, it is a valid point, If I were to express my opinions on organised religion through writing or speech, they would likely offend some religion or all of them, surely all religions consider my opinion that they are all wrong, and their deity does not exist as blasphemy.

    Atheist standpoints are blasphemous to these religions, and the proposed law brings in a 100,000 euro fine for that.

    A religious standpoint regarding other religions would be more defensible, wrongly but true, there is more precedent of religious views being protected, over an atheist, or non-religious expression of blasphemy, so I stand by that point, if it was a little sensational.


  • #90
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    threeleggedhors wrote: »
    Kind of ironic that if this law had been around when J.C. was telling everyone what was what that the Irish government could've nipped it in the bud and saved him all the persecution....:D

    Haha, indeed..Jesus caused his own share of outrage in his time. And I'm sure an Irish judge could easily have found him to have intended to cause that outrage.

    Oh good Lord, we need new politicians. Not just new government, but new politicians, period. Our political class seems to have an unhappy knack of attracting some of the most unthinking and vacantly-minded people.


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    20goto10
    Registered Users Posts: 1,210 ✭✭✭20goto10


    The irony is this law is in itself an act of blashphemy because it prevents and mocks all religions which require you to purge false gods and other religions. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, is all of them.

    It also has political rammifications. Next time we see the foreign minister criticise the Talibans religious ethics we should slap a €100,000 fine on his gob.

    As well as the obvious, if I want to get anything done, like say rid the world of Jews and take over Europe, I can do so in the name of religion and anyone who speaks out against me will be prosecuted :rolleyes:


Advertisement