Why buy a bike on-line?

SACH Central · 06-05-2008 6:30pm #1

Have read quite a few threads about people ordering stuff from UK stores...Why?? Is it still cheaper to buy from the UK than in Ireland? I know that the exchange rate is becoming more favourable and all My own experience, and I bought a new bike last December, is that you can't beat The 'one to one' help a knowledgable sales assistant/good shop gives. I bought mine from Cycle Super Store. Found them great. They spent the guts of an hour with me adjusting the bike for me. You can't, I assume, get that service online. They advised me to take a 55cm frame, I thought, having raced some years ago, that a 58cm was my size. When I tried both bikes on a turbo trainer in the shop, I found I was 'reaching' just a bit too much on the '58'

I also want to add I am not affiliated to any bike shop. I also use Worldwide Cycles in Clonmel a lot as I live quite close. Found them great too.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 06-05-2008 6:38pm

You pay extra in a bricks and mortar store for that level of extra service. Someone who doesn't need the extra services is better off buying online as they save money.

Dirk Gently · 06-05-2008 6:43pm

It makes sense for people who know exactly what they want, having researched their purchase and in a lot of cases actually test cycled the exact make / model / size. A complete noob would probably be wise to buy in a bricks and mortar shop but for others who know how to build / adjust it makes more sense to save money by ordering online. I'm still at the bricks / mortar stage accept for parts / accessories which I buy mostly online these days.

SACH Central · 06-05-2008 6:46pm

Sean_K wrote: »

You pay extra in a bricks and mortar store for that level of extra service. Someone who doesn't need the extra services is better off buying online as they save money.

.....But do you though? Is it not just an Irish thing to think that we can buy something cheaper 'out foreign' than we can at home. I know it's true about electronic good & clothes etc in The U.S and elsewhere, but buying something as important as a bike.....I'm not convinced

The_B_Man · 06-05-2008 6:54pm

Well, now that you know your frame size etc, would you use the bricks and mortar again? Or, would you jsut buy a cheaper one online now that you have your specifications, if you knew you could get it much cheaper?

SACH Central · 06-05-2008 6:57pm

That my question B Man. Is it cheaper to buy a bike from an UK on-line store?

niceonetom · 06-05-2008 6:58pm

SACH Central wrote: »

.....But do you though?

yes. i'd go as far as saying that there probably isn't a single product on sale in your average 'bricks-and-mortar' bikeshop that is not available online for less. the saving ain't pennies either, but major differences.

i've also had some appalling shop assistants in irish bike shops who plainly haven't a clue what they're talking about. they're not all like that, but if you're new to cycling it's very hard to tell the difference between someone being genuinely helpful, and a chancer trying to get rid of old stock.

Ciaran500 · 06-05-2008 7:05pm

Been researching getting a bike for around the €2000 for the last while, decided on a what I should be looking at online: a Spesh (€1850 online delivered), a Trek(€1850 online delivered) and a Giant (€2050 delivered). So I started searching around Dublin for the bikes in person to have a ride on them and get the price from a shop here. The cheapest I found the Spesh for was €2300, the Trek €2250 and the Giant was €2200.

I'd be willing to pay the extra €150 for the Giant from a shop but WTF are the shops thinking with the other prices. I'd be paying RRP for the others online so I can only imagine the rest is markup, I'd like to support a bike shop but they can GTF at those prices.

SACH Central · 06-05-2008 7:10pm

Ciaran500 wrote: »

Been researching getting a bike for around the €2000 for the last while, decided on a what I should be looking at online: a Spesh (€1850 online delivered), a Trek(€1850 online delivered) and a Giant (€2050 delivered). So I started searching around Dublin for the bikes in person to have a ride on them and get the price from a shop here. The cheapest I found the Spesh for was €2300, the Trek €2250 and the Giant was €2200.

Were those cheaper prices from on-line stores in the UK or Ireland?

Ciaran500 · 06-05-2008 7:11pm

From the UK, I've yet to find a good online Irish bike store.

Quigs Snr · 06-05-2008 7:16pm

It all depends on the shop I reckon. I would sometimes get parts online myself but I do like the comfort of going into a good bikeshop to get sorted out and find myself going online less and less these days. I have learned the hard way that its usually worth it. Plus if you are a regular you can build up a relationship with a bikeshop and sometimes get the odd discount here and there.

I understand where the OP is coming from though. Some bike shops can be poor however the OPs experience is with Worldwide who are an exceptional shop (with good prices) and you get an outstanding service there, Sean Kelly himself is a frequent visitor and the lads really know and love bikes. I often make the 60 mile round trip to get my bike sorted. I usually walk out of there with a perfect bike and a bunch of maintenance and training tips. Barry's blog on their website is well worth a read too.

I guess if you find a great bikeshop you will never look back (apart from when you spot the odd really juicy clearance bargain on a website every now and then).

hobojojo · 06-05-2008 7:45pm

i bought a bike online recently, cost me €1100 including shipping, came fully assembled. all i had to do was straighten the handlebars and adjust the saddle. saved €300 as compared to the irish price.

in light of my saving of €400, i can walk into almost any LBC and get my bike serviced to suit my needs for under €50.

a mate of mine had this done recently. for €40 they swapped his stem, as they thought his was too long, and also repositioned his cleets/shoes to a better position.

SACH Central · 06-05-2008 7:55pm

But then you read 'horror' stories about Chain Reactions etc. and about bikes arriving with missing 'bits' etc. than aint going to happen with a bike shop.

kenmc · 06-05-2008 8:41pm

Seems like you've got horror stories from both the LBS and the onliners. Was searching through threads yesterday and found stories about LBSs having handlebars come loose, wheels come undone, spokes loosening etc etc etc.
Who can you trust these days?

but to answer your question:
Assuming you know what size/type of bike etc you're looking for:
- choice of websites available so you don't have to trawl around town or ring up a half dozen places to be put on hold
- instantly know if they have particular size/color in stock
- usually delivered to your door (or work, or neighbour, wherever) within the week
- at a saving of sometimes up to 400 or 500 euro - possibly more. That money can then be spent on upgrading, replacing, clothing, locks/lights/tools whatever.
It's usually not an insignificant savings. If it was around the cost of a service or 2 more expensive to go to the LBS, then I don't think there'd be many bikes bought from the net. But usually it's substantially more expensive, so people vote with their feet -erm fingers.... sure hasn't the government been telling us to shop around for ages?

dmigsy · 06-05-2008 8:48pm

I think this thread's starting to go in circles. Here's my opinion.

Pro's:
1) Cheaper

Cons:
1) DIY Assembly
2) Cost of bringing to LBS for assembly
3) Complications when problems arise due to the fact you cant just walk in with broken bike and demand satisfaction (with or without tantrum).

So there's the trade-off. Personally (as a bike maintenance numbskull) it depends how much cheaper the bike is online. If it's €100-200 quid cheaper I'd say feck it and go with the security of the LBS. Any more and I'd be swayed by those low-low prices.

blorg · 06-05-2008 9:33pm

I would certainly pay €100-200 extra to get it in a LBS, probably even 3 or 400 more. But the savings are even greater than that; often in the thousands for even mid-level bikes (e.g. €2,350 bike for €1,300 sort of thing.)

Ciaran- you can't buy a Trek online any more, it's in person from a dealer only.

There are also differences between the online shops; CRC just ship the box to you as is but Wiggle fully assemble and adjust the bike (I have bought bikes from both.) And then there are the bikes you can only get online, or not from Irish dealers anyway.

Ciaran500 · 07-05-2008 9:14am

blorg wrote: »

Ciaran- you can't buy a Trek online any more, it's in person from a dealer only.

http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/trek_fuel_ex_8_green.html

EDIT: Is there any good Trek dealers around Dublin? Any shop I went into said they don't stock Treks but they'd order one in for me.

blorg · 07-05-2008 10:28am

Ciaran500 wrote: »

http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/trek_fuel_ex_8_green.html

Yeah, note top of that page you linked:

As of 1st September 2007 this product is not available for delivery. This product is only available to collect instore. This is at the request of the Trek Bicycle Company and will affects all dealers Worldwide more

Joe Daly in Dundrum are a Trek dealer and a very good shop overall; I'd highly recommend them. Doubt they would have that bike in stock though, it's a very expensive mountain bike and they tend towards the road end of the spectrum. That would go for most Trek dealers I know of though. Full list of Dublin Trek Dealers here. Cycle Inn in Tallaght specialize in MTBs AFAIK but they don't seem to do a lot of Trek (from their website.)

mikemac · 07-05-2008 10:33am

Ciaran500 wrote: »

EDIT: Is there any good Trek dealers around Dublin? Any shop I went into said they don't stock Treks but they'd order one in for me.

Little Sport in Fairview are a Trek dealer.

TinyExplosions · 07-05-2008 10:51am

Also McDonalds (I think!) on Wexford Street are a trek stockist, and pretty sound guys -they're just next door to Shine (used to be the Corner Stone)

dinneenp · 07-05-2008 2:14pm

I bought a bike from edinburgh cycles online, my mum was in Scotland so brought it home with her (free on plane about 6 years ago).
they create their own brand of bikes that are virtually the same as branded bike( use good components) but are a lot cheaper....

Manone · 07-05-2008 5:43pm

I have bough from the LBS and online and online would win in my book. Irish sites can't compete on price because of VAT, higher overheads and the fact that the market is smaller than UK.

Bought a Cannondale online after I had checked it out in Cycleways and ended up saving €300 over their sale price never mind their presale price and with lesser components all round. The only drawback with online is that couriers will not treat your new beauty with the same love and attention as you would expect, also getting it delivered in that big cardboard box drew surprise from the security guards where I work.

I regularly use the LBS only to kick myself when I see what I can save when I go online.

A poll might be the way forward to gauge feeling on this.

kenmc · 07-05-2008 5:57pm

Unfortunately it's a classic catch 22.
Because they invariably (have to?)charge substantially more than you can get online,people tend to send their business online, where they have more choice also. However because the LBSs are getting less business, they have to reduce their stocklines and increase their prices in order to make rent payments, staff payments, bills etc.

The size of the market here doesn't help things either, but maybe it's starting to change a bit as more people start cycling.

I would LOVE to be able to go down to the LBS and pick the exact make/model/size of bike I wanted, and take it home there and then - I'd even be prepared to pay 10-15% more than the online price for this _service_. The reality is that most of the time they don't have a particular size of the make/model in stock, and it takes them as long to get it in as you can get in online anyway. And it's almost always more than 10-15% more expensive.

TinyExplosions · 07-05-2008 6:16pm

I think Ken hit it on the head -there is a premium I'd pay for getting stuff from a LBS, but it's not as high as the difference there is. I usually use them for stuff I need *now*, but am always annoyed at how much more it costs

niceonetom · 07-05-2008 6:21pm

^^I agree with ken. they can't compete on the same terms as online retailers.

[rant]
i think that one way a the lbs might be able to survive the move to online shopping is by providing better quality of service, pretty much the only area in which they have left in which to compete with the online giants. servicing, repairs, replacement parts fitting etc. could be a lucrative market supplementing actual bike sales. this does not seem to be the direction things are taking though. we have plenty of people posting here who have deliberately stopped buying from certain bricks n mortar shops because of the poor service (as opposed to because of the higher prices).

this is compounded by the second threat that the internet poses to the lbs: know how. the same bargain hunters who will risk it with ebay etc. are going to be the ones on the parktools site saying 'from now on i'll be fitting my own bottom-bracket (or whatever)...' for the first time it's possible to be a fully equipped cyclist on a well maintained machine without ever going to a lbs.

the lbss out there seem to think that they're the ones doing us a favour by deigning to sell us a chain, or possibly service our bike (in two weeks). they're not. we're doing them a favour with our business. but for how long? and they seem to be hastening their own demise.
[/rant]

whew, needed that.

blorg · 07-05-2008 6:49pm

Manone wrote: »

Irish sites can't compete on price because of VAT, higher overheads and the fact that the market is smaller than UK.

VAT has nothing to do with it; difference between 17.5% and 21% means only €25 on €1,000 worth of bike. If this were the only difference this thread would not exist. And most people buying online are doing it from elsewhere in the EU, (inc. CRC in Northern Ireland) not the US. The other points are valid.

TinyExplosions · 07-05-2008 7:10pm

Maybe it's time to open a 'proper' bike shop

To look at the other side though, I do think that the majority of people on here are not typical cyclists. We have some level of 'know-how', and are willing to learn to do things ourselves, whereas the average punter is probably happy going into any of the LBS' and picking up over priced stuff, simply because they don't know (or care) that it's cheaper online. For example, how many people brave the customer service nightmare that is PC World when they could get a Dell delivered direct for cheaper.

In this case it may be that 'a little knowledge is dangerous', as we look for better service, and the LBS to have better and better bikes in stock, when we may be <10% of their customers. Is it practical to expect Cycleways to have the same sort of stock as Wiggle?

At the end of the day, I think the shops here are geared more for people wanting a cheap (in bike terms) runaround (or a very high priced custom tt bike or similar), than us folk wanting mid end stuff.

or maybe I'm talking rubbish!

fergalr · 07-05-2008 7:38pm

The biggest reason that I've switched to doing almost all of my bike shopping online - and I spend more money on bike stuff than I should - is that I've had some very bad experiences (and heard of worse ones) with certain dublin bike shops, where stuff hasn't been put together properly, or repairs done right.

There's this assumption going around that goes like this: "your lbs will look after you, and do the job properly, unlike those dodgy online retailers"... or also that the guys in the bike shop know how to do things correctly, and if you try yourself, you'll just break your bike.
And that's just not true in my experience - you can get some really bad work done on your bike if you bring it to or buy it from, the wrong shop.
Scary - your road bike really needs to hold together when flying down djouce etc.

I've taken to learning to do everything myself over time. Bike maintenance isn't hard, if you are willing to spend a bit of time at it, all the info is out there... I've just gotten to the stage where I've built up my post recent bike from parts bought on-line. It's taken me a good bit of time, and I've spent money on tools (money I've saved by doing things myself), but now if it breaks, I can fix it, and I know that some care and attention has gone into assembling it correctly.

As others have said, if you are willing to spend a bit of time learning about bikes (which is reasonable if you are going to spend lots of money on them, or lots of time), you are better off saving money and buying online, and doing installations and maintenance yourself..

In my experience buying online is always cheaper than local dublin bike shops, at least 20%, and up to 40% on some items... and that was before recent sterling dive.

If you do use a bike shop in Dublin, make sure that it's one of the better ones... I've found The Cycle Inn good for maintenance in the past, also had good experiences picking up bits from Joe Daly's... wouldn't recommend any of the others I've dealt with.

neilled · 07-05-2008 10:48pm

Ciaran500 wrote: »

http://www.pedalon.co.uk/acatalog/trek_fuel_ex_8_green.html

EDIT: Is there any good Trek dealers around Dublin? Any shop I went into said they don't stock Treks but they'd order one in for me.

McDonalds on Wexford street and Joe Dalys Dundrum. I reckon the reason trek won't allow their dealers to buy online is that if they're only allowed be to sold in store (and hence won't be discounted) they will be viewed by consumers as a premium product. Now their policy is a right pain in the arse - i've spoted a trek portland on the evans cycles website for £900 - if i wasn't repeating this year i'd have probably snapped it up. Still with the online sales ban its impossible and the portland isn't being sold outside the USA anymore, as best as I can tell.

drunkmonkey · 07-05-2008 10:58pm

I bought my last bike from

http://www.evanscycles.com/

I did try and buy in Ireland but no bike shop I visited could come near the spec for the same price....I saved €600 on a €1000 bike....it was a no brainer..

There very good to deal with, the derailer snapped off my bike 2 weeks after getting it.....it scraped the frame badly and buckled the back wheel....

No problem, the sent me out a new bike the exact same and picked up the old one.....excellent service......I would highly recommend them if your thinking of buying online...

lukester · 07-05-2008 11:57pm

I bought a bike online recently, and wanted to get to grips with maintenance myself anyway, so it suited me. The savings were pretty compelling; in the region of 25-40% on the bikes I was looking at. I've had a few slap the forehead moments, mainly due to learning curve, but it's been well worth it.

A friend who is training for a triathlon bought a bike recently in a small LBS, although I sent him links for good online deals. He bought from them for peace of mind- he is completely new to cycling, and wouldn't be the fettling type at all. I had a spin on his bike after he bought it- the indexing on the gears was badly out and the bars looked like they had been taped by a 3 year old. They also stuck bargain basement tyres on. It's minor stuff, and he can bring the bike back to them for tweaking, but in this case he's paying over the odds for what amounts to not great customer care. They also sold him a ton of extras that he may or may not need.

I'm all in favour of supporting local business, but only business that deserves that support. I also think there comes a point where the price differential gets so large that it sways people.

Why buy a bike on-line?

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