Paddy Power Transphobic Ad,

deirdre_dub · 20-02-2012 6:04pm

The guy in Paddy Power did not get back to me, so I phoned him.

There are no plans to pull the ad.

He wasn't even able to tell me if Paddy Power are going to engage with the transgender community.

I've just been in touch with TENI - the issue is going to be discussed on Today FM at about 5:20pm.

Calleja · 20-02-2012 6:17pm

Another video under the same account is called "Paddy Power Blind Football - Most complained advert in 2010." Their use of 'most complained' implies (to me, at least) that they're using shock as a way of generating views/wider advisement; I don't think they care about the minority communities they're insulting (otherwise they would have learnt their lesson in 2010 with the blind community). It's getting them advertisement so they keep at it.

hots · 20-02-2012 6:32pm

Just thought I would throw my two cents in...

The ad is obviously deliberately offensive/shocking/'humourous'... It will gain views from it and imo is of the same inclination as the Not For Girls - Yorkie campaign. In the same breath I'm not sure either of these ad's are offensive enough (difficult to define) to be pulled really. They're quite tongue in cheek and don't incite hatred or anything as serious as that (imo imo imo)...

It's not the finest ad but it's appealing the a "laddish" audience, a majority of PP account holders...

Regards being offensive to women in general... perhaps, but no worse than any 'offensive' to men adverts http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/may/20/asa-oven-pride-cleared-of-sexism

All in all: offensive=yes, funny=not really, worthy of complaint/removal=not really, it's just poor distasteful humour.

wonderfulname · 20-02-2012 6:50pm

Beruthiel wrote: »

So does that mean I'm a feminist nazi for pointing out that calling a woman a filly or mare is in fact, highly insulting?
I certainly see it as such.
I most definitely do not see it as acceptable terminology.
As for you hearing a woman referring to another in this fashion, ignorance is no excuse and does not make a thing acceptable. Some people don't engage their brains.

Here's a good example of genuinely taking the piss with offence levels, need I reiterate:

Maybe it's from being a culchie and a bit of a racing fanatic...granted most of them are in the racing or hunting scenes...

In my experience, in that culture it is perfectly acceptable and not at all ill intentioned to speak as such, and that is all I said. I'd imagine it has something to do with actually holding the animals in regard.
However I do find you calling a lot of people quite close to me ignorant and disengaged over variations in slang usage highly, personally insulting. I think you need to calm down there a bit... In all fairness where do you get off on pulling the femi-nazi card on me? It's a bit ludicrous to be honest, given my posting history.

deirdre_dub wrote: »

I've just been in touch with TENI - the issue is going to be discussed on Today FM at about 5:20pm.

Just caught the end of that, couldn't really work out what the conclusion was meant to be, how did it go?

Ciaran0 · 20-02-2012 7:09pm

People are so fussy about everything these days. It was just a poor advert. I don't get why everyone has to get so up in arms over these things...

wonderfulname · 20-02-2012 7:13pm

I wonder how you'd feel if they had to pinpoint the Christians...

Rev Hellfire · 20-02-2012 7:47pm

If the intention was to gain publicity through being offensive then its succeeded admirably.

hots · 20-02-2012 7:50pm

wonderfulname wrote: »

I wonder how you'd feel if they had to pinpoint the Christians...

Not sure if this was for me but nonplussed would be my response, although seeing PP try would make me smile... (non-believer btw)

wonderfulname · 20-02-2012 7:57pm

Not aimed at you, aimed at the poster above that wandered in from Christianity.

deirdre_dub · 20-02-2012 8:36pm

It's official - the ad isn't going to be pulled voluntarily. However, the UK's advertising standards authority have said that they are investigating, and that they don't need any more complaints about the ad.

Paddy Power doesn't understand why the ad is offensive, and is shocked by the response of the transgender community. So apparently a game of pointing out women with certain physical characterists - characteristics that are sometimes due to a recognised medical condition - is not a problem.

So what is it going to be next year? Cleft lip and palate at Cheltenham? Kinda got a ring to it, don't you think?

eaglach · 20-02-2012 9:03pm

All this talk of being offended reminded me of this:

But in regards to the ad campaign, Paddy Power got it spot on. Look how much attention it is getting because of the offended parties. If you just ignored it, it would have slipped under the radar and would haven't been as succesful as it is now.

You've actually done Paddy Power a big favour.

Shakti · 20-02-2012 9:18pm

Just finished listening to Matt Cooper,
Disappointing I dont envy Vanessa her job,

Paddy Power has encouraged the sexual harassment of women at Cheltenham and in sport in general. Paddy Power thinks sexual harassment is just a bit of fun, well he better get himself a good lawyer should his customers decide to be "Inspired by his comments" and act out his idea of "fun".

Shakti · 20-02-2012 9:23pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmkHLiZMJeU

deirdre_dub · 20-02-2012 9:43pm

eaglach wrote: »

But in regards to the ad campaign, Paddy Power got it spot on. Look how much attention it is getting because of the offended parties. If you just ignored it, it would have slipped under the radar and would haven't been as succesful as it is now.

You've actually done Paddy Power a big favour.

So the correct response to this is to roll over, sit quietly in the corner, and take it. How stupid of me!

Thanks for your help.

wonderfulname · 20-02-2012 9:58pm

Ack, I was wrong, people can manage to talk about this, I seriously didn't consider that "you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference" would be taken as a valid position... That's pretty dire actually.

Slang_Tang · 20-02-2012 11:27pm

deirdre_dub wrote: »

So the correct response to this is to roll over, sit quietly in the corner, and take it. How stupid of me!

Thanks for your help.

I know. It's always so easy for people who aren't at all affected, or who don't have to put up with this sort of shít on a daily basis, to say, "Oh, if it were me, I would ignore it/it wouldn't bother me".

How could they possibly know?

LegacyUser · 20-02-2012 11:37pm

PADDY POWER IS A BASTARD and for what it's worth some of those trans ladies were quite beautiful

My €0.02

Louisevb · 20-02-2012 11:49pm

Picking on marginalised communities is a bit of a laugh? So who actually are we supposed to be laughing at?

1. Transgender people that have lost their families and and friends, not because they are Trans but because societys perception of them.

2. Are we supposed to be laughing at their families who either decided that they cant deal with having a Transgender person in their family, so cut links and loose a loved one.

3. Are we laughing at the Transgender Child who is trying to integrate themselves in school and being constantly mocked for having the courage to be themselves.

4. Or are we laughing at the the Transgender person who is after losing contact with their children, who is standing at the edge of a cliff after losing the will to live. I like to think I have a good sense of humour but I don't find it funny when I am taking calls similiar to those hilarious 4 samples above.

I don't find it funny when my Father cant bare to see me because he doesn't understand my situation as a Transgender Woman, the same understanding that I work everyday to create, so as other Transgender people wont have to suffer these painful challenges.

I don't find it funny as advertisments like this tear apart the good work we do with little or no thought for the consequences of their actions. Finally, I am a race goer, I had a yearly ticket to my local track (Tramore), I am a punter, I will be glued to the Cheltenham Festival. But dya know what? I don't find it funny that Paddy Power has chosen to single out the people that I have the honour of working with. I think many years ago we would have taken this crap, but days like that are long gone. Not only should Paddy Power be ashamed but the Cheltenham Festival Staff who also think this is a bit of fun. I am asking you kindly to please remove this and leave us alone to get on with our lives, and let our families also get on with theirs.
Posted by Vanessa Lacey who was on Matt Cooper this evening, on the Cheltenham Website and I could not have put it better myself.. If this trash had been directed at coloured people, travelers etc there would be uproar and rightly so... I have friends who go out at the weekend and get this kind of stuff, coins thrown at them and verbal abuse.. and it's exactly this stuff which encourages it...Now tell me if you would all like that and it's all fun so ?

Shakti · 21-02-2012 12:20am

Ye no I know its actually a real ad,
I'm starting understand how Paddy Power actually sees women,

Azure_sky · 21-02-2012 12:31am

Slang_Tang wrote: »

I know. It's always so easy for people who aren't at all affected, or who don't have to put up with this sort of shít on a daily basis, to say, "Oh, if it were me, I would ignore it/it wouldn't bother me".

How could they possibly know?

Correct.

The word context is lost on some people. This crap just gives thugs the social justification that trans people are some how less than other citizens and abusing trans people is socially acceptable. I know trans people who have been savagely beaten simply for being trans. This piece of crap will almost certainly increase the chances of such crimes occurring more frequently. Paddy Power now have blood on their hands.

EGAR · 21-02-2012 12:40am

It made me very uneasy to watch this ad, it is wrong on so many levels and I find it disgusting that people stoop to these levels.

And I can totally understand why this is causing outrage. Actually, in my mind it is bullying.

hots · 21-02-2012 1:02am

Louisevb wrote: »

Picking on marginalised communities is a bit of a laugh? So who actually are we supposed to be laughing at?

1. Transgender people that have lost their families and and friends, not because they are Trans but because societys perception of them.

2. Are we supposed to be laughing at their families who either decided that they cant deal with having a Transgender person in their family, so cut links and loose a loved one.

3. Are we laughing at the Transgender Child who is trying to integrate themselves in school and being constantly mocked for having the courage to be themselves.

4. Or are we laughing at the the Transgender person who is after losing contact with their children, who is standing at the edge of a cliff after losing the will to live. I like to think I have a good sense of humour but I don't find it funny when I am taking calls similiar to those hilarious 4 samples above.

In fairness I don't think PaddyPower was targeting these points. I don't think the ad was right but you're taking it out of context here...

Shakti · 21-02-2012 1:09am

6a011570c131b2970c014e88ba944d970d-300wi

themediablog

I'm starting to think Paddy Power just doesn't like women unless they're playing bingo or ^^

Shakti · 21-02-2012 1:09am

....

Azure_sky · 21-02-2012 1:10am

hobbit of the shire wrote: »

In fairness I don't think PaddyPower was targeting these points. I don't think the ad was right but you're taking it out of context here...

Even if that is true they must be well aware of it now and have no intention of backing down.

hots · 21-02-2012 1:15am

Azure_sky wrote: »

Even if that is true they must be well aware of it now and have no intention of backing down.

Aware of the trouble these people get? Yes everyone is (decent people are), but I don't think this ad is inciting hatred or persecution here is it? Objectifying definitely but hardly inciting...

L.Jenkins · 21-02-2012 1:17am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2103786/Paddy-Power-criticised-ad-campaign-asking-punters-spot-transgendered-ladies.html#ixzz1mx2UdVCo

It seems they're quite happy to continue on with the advertisement quoting,

'We are surprised with some of the reaction because members of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community helped us put the ad together and were featured in it.

'It is not meant to cause offence.
'This was checked by Clearcast (which vets adverts) so it wasn't as if it was a guerrilla style attempt to offend - it is meant to get people talking.'

Azure_sky · 21-02-2012 1:24am

'This was checked by Clearcast (which vets adverts) so it wasn't as if it was a guerrilla style attempt to offend fortunately for us - it is meant to get people talking us more business as any publicity is good publicity.'

Fixed.

Aurongroove · 21-02-2012 1:36am

sorry, Insanely long post:

"Well Aurongroove; the reason the horse metaphor in this instance was offensive to trans-gendered women was not because it identified them (and other ladies) as horses, but because it identified them uniformly as 'male' and the other ladies as 'female'.
The ad basically asks 'can you tell the males from the females?' meaning 'transgendered ladies' from other 'ladies'; actively waiving a transgendered woman's (probably hard earned) sexual identity.

This is a horribly tasteless premiss for humour, especially considering the fact that countless transgendered ladies have had to make sacrifices and struggles for their sexual identity even more so then, as the ad would say, 'regular' women. Putting them in a commercial and basically saying "now let's try tell the real women, from the fake women" is disgusting

the hot dog in the background plays of the transphobic reflex of instantly associating transgendered ladies with penises and thus completing the link. This would be similar to using homosexuals in an ad and using symbolic referencing to HIV or Anal Sex as a background joke.

The 'dog' gag suggests that the narrator was so confused by his self inflicted rapid fire sexist guessing game that upon seeing a dog and then a transgendered lady come out of a male bathroom, that he is dazzled into identifying the person, not as a male or female but as a dog."

(now the bad bit, sorry guys, again, this is my opinion)

You know when I wrote that to myself?
I wrote it to myself when I started to think that the people who were offended by the commercial either had no idea how to formulate a reasoned argument about why the ad was offensive OR that they could, but they constantly missed the point of why I and several other posters who took the 'other side' were continuing to post.
This was fine until the moderators began not being able to tell the difference between argumentative opinion and tactless aggressive prejudice (real transphobia).

I am furious that one of my posts received an infringement in this thread, and saw that some others did as well, but what's worse. There are overwhelming examples of Moderators using their power to bully one side of the argument over the other:
I have seen in this thread warnings by Mods telling non-TG posters that their opinions are not as important as TG posters in matters of TG targeted ignorance. This is a logical fallacy and if it isn't, then I at least express my right to say it's a logical fallacy.

Maybe I was being a bastard, but then again maybe the reason that the only infringements I've ever received in a forum ever were both here in the last few days, on TG themes threads, is because the TG's here are being wrapped up in artificial wool so tight that they don't know how to argue properly, and any whistle blowers (opposing opinions) are quickly done away with by mods.

all I've learned from this thread is to stay the hell away from TG's and their threads for fear or breaking eggshells. which is quite the opposite to my real life TG friends who are open, casual and not afraid to argue.

Slang_Tang · 21-02-2012 1:47am

Aurongroove wrote: »

all I've learned from this thread is to stay the hell away from TG's and their threads for fear or breaking eggshells. which is quite the opposite to my real life TG friends who are open, casual and not afraid to argue.

that's very unfair. Trans people do not have to argue here. You and I are gay men. The shít we deal with is nothing, absolutely nothing in comparison to trans people. I think most people would accept that.

So for you and me, it's just an advert. For trans people, it's just another shítty piece of bigotry in the long line of shítty pieces of bigotry they have to deal with every week.

Trans people should not have to argue, defend, or debate in relation to this advert. It's ridiculous. For you it might be a kind of hypothetical discussion; for them it could genuinely cause real emotional hurt. There's no comparison here.

Like I said, it's always easier for people who aren't affected to complain. Have you noticed that 90% of the time it is straight white men who complain about "PC correctness gone mad"? Because they're not the women, gays, trans, or racial minorities who are paraded or degraded for others' entertainment.

Paddy Power Transphobic Ad,

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