Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

kikel · 08-02-2015 6:05pm

Rantan wrote: »

i,ve just heard that the council have reneged on their agreement to retain and relocate the medieval gable of no17. Anyone know anything about that?

Haven't heard that but why am i not surprised.

kikel · 12-02-2015 3:56pm

Rantan wrote: »

i,ve just heard that the council have reneged on their agreement to retain and relocate the medieval gable of no17. Anyone know anything about that?

I think you are right. The chimney is gone from the right hand side.

nootroc · 12-02-2015 7:14pm

So now it's unstable and must therefore be knocked in the interests of H & S.

How many trees were felled in the aftermath of Hurricane Darwin apart from the ones at the old swimming pool?

slimjimmc · 12-02-2015 8:40pm

kikel wrote: »

I think you are right. The chimney is gone from the right hand side.

That worker was up on his cherry picker this morning. He seemed to be taking great care to take it down stone-by-stone and place each stone in the platform instead of just chucking them over the edge or down the flue. I thought that was a strange way to go about it.

kikel · 12-02-2015 10:44pm

So does anyone know the story? Have they gone back on the decision to retain the gable wall? Is it another lie from the council?

catbear · 14-02-2015 5:58pm

I'd imagine old structures can crumble easily once supporting structure is compromised. Quiet often heritage projects have to be dissembled and reconstructed just make sure they stand up in the long run.

kikel · 25-02-2015 8:14pm

An Taisces press release. An interesting read.

http://www.antaisce.org/articles/kilkenny-central-access-scheme-county-council-destroying-what-it-has-a-duty-to-preserve

It seems that the chimney is been preserved from looking at current works.

kikel · 05-03-2015 1:16am

An board planeala have refused retrospective planning permission to Kilkenny county council for the works carried out last summer. The way Kilkenny county council constructed the foundations in the river was in breach of the strict conditions set out by ABP.

So the question is now, how much have public money has the council wasted on the project by not following the correct rules?

Link: http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HM0001.htm

Threadhead · 05-03-2015 9:36am

What are they playing at?

And how do they think they can get away with it? Playing protestors for costing the taxpayer money and they're building without planning permission. It just beggars belief.

kikel · 05-03-2015 11:41am

They tried to bully this project through at any cost. From breaking planning conditions, a PR campaign saying the the protesters were costing the city millions. It will be interesting to see what the councils next move will be. They have spent a hell of a lot of money so far. Always talking about cuts in services due to protesters.

With their poor decision making ability I do wonder was the move to demolish Vicar street against An Taisces and Kilkenny Archelogical Socities recommendation a wise move. Have we lost an important piece of our heritage?

Threadhead · 05-03-2015 11:59am

I'm just hoping that protestors on this issue aren't going to use Phil Hogan's civic ceremony tomorrow as a means to highlight this. It'll do them more harm than good at this stage. People protesting at events that have no direct links to what they're protesting about is getting ugly at this stage.

I'm glad that the protestors has been proven to be right all along and that what the council have been doing is absolutely illegal. That will stand to the people of this city for a long time.

kikel · 05-03-2015 12:03pm

Threadhead wrote: »

I'm just hoping that protestors on this issue aren't going to use Phil Hogan's civic ceremony tomorrow as a means to highlight this. It'll do them more harm than good at this stage. People protesting at events that have no direct links to what they're protesting about is getting ugly at this stage.

I'm glad that the protestors has been proven to be right all along and that what the council have been doing is absolutely illegal. That will stand to the people of this city for a long time.

I doubt Phil will have to worry about Anti CAS protesters. I'd say the water protesters are a bigger issue.

nootroc · 05-03-2015 12:22pm

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/kilkenny-news/minister-says-cas-is-vital-to-access-city-developments-1-5519500

Not exactly disinterested in the project

andyman · 05-03-2015 11:18pm

Just did a bit of reading on this, it appears planning permission for an AMENDMENT to the original approved plan was rejected.

mountcisco · 06-03-2015 12:37am

andyman wrote: »

Just did a bit of reading on this, it appears planning permission for an AMENDMENT to the original approved plan was rejected.

Yea the council put the stones in the river without permission and then in December after they did it, they asked Bord Pleanala to amend the planning permission to make it all OK. An Bord Pleanala quite rightly told them to get stuffed. IMO that CAS bridge is being built illegally now. What a mess.:eek:

Rantan · 06-03-2015 10:46am

that fill has been removed now anyway I think..hasn't it?

my understanding is that it was just a platform for the piling operations..so it isunlikely to have a major impact on the rest of the project..it was(is) a temp structure so couldn't be considered part of the scheme

I might be wrong but I cant see how it could be a big enough violation to halt the project,,,?

mountcisco · 06-03-2015 8:23pm

Rantan wrote: »

that fill has been removed now anyway I think..hasn't it?

my understanding is that it was just a platform for the piling operations..so it isunlikely to have a major impact on the rest of the project..it was(is) a temp structure so couldn't be considered part of the scheme

I might be wrong but I cant see how it could be a big enough violation to halt the project,,,?

Your right.
"There’s been no reference to any unauthorised development being carried out in respect of the Central Access Scheme.
So says Acting director of Services with Kilkenny county council Simon Walton after An Bord Pleanala issued a direction saying it wouldnt be changing the wording of the original decision on the development as its not necessary."

http://kclr96fm.com/no-reference-to-unauthorised-development-in-respect-of-cas-says-council

Looks like there's no problem after all according to the council. They didnt bother sticking to the conditions imposed by An Bord Pleanala, but the Bord are now saying it doesn't matter anyway, sure fire ahead lads and ye'll be grand, nobody minds those oul conditions anyway only the small people. Sends out a great message for the future of planning in this country.:)

kikel · 06-03-2015 10:21pm

https://vimeo.com/121355587

Rantan · 06-03-2015 10:21pm

mountcisco wrote: »

Your right.
"There’s been no reference to any unauthorised development being carried out in respect of the Central Access Scheme.
So says Acting director of Services with Kilkenny county council Simon Walton after An Bord Pleanala issued a direction saying it wouldnt be changing the wording of the original decision on the development as its not necessary."

http://kclr96fm.com/no-reference-to-unauthorised-development-in-respect-of-cas-says-council

Looks like there's no problem after all according to the council. They didnt bother sticking to the conditions imposed by An Bord Pleanala, but the Bord are now saying it doesn't matter anyway, sure fire ahead lads and ye'll be grand, nobody minds those oul conditions anyway only the small people. Sends out a great message for the future of planning in this country.:)

oh well,,no change so..pity

Anne_Marie_SK · 07-03-2015 7:04pm

Simon Walton, Acting Director of Services, 6th March , 2015 KCLR:

“WE are satisfied FULLY that those in-river methodologies… that we are using…. are the most appropriate means….that is why we doing it that way… of minimising the risk of adverse impact on the River Nore.”

An Bord Pleanala Decision , 4th March:

“Having considered the request from Kilkenny County Council and the report of the Inspector… the Board has decided not to make the requested amendment.”

Save Kilkenny-
"An Bord Pleanala has definitively rejected Kilkenny County Councils’ application for retrospective planning permission for the in-river works done last summer. So whether or not the Kilkenny County Council believe that their methodology “are the most appropriate means" is entirely irrelevant. The issue here is simple- Kilkenny County Council failed to adhere to the conditions imposed by An Bord Pleanala.

1984baby · 07-03-2015 8:54pm

Anne_Marie_SK wrote: »

Simon Walton, Acting Director of Services, 6th March , 2015 KCLR:

“WE are satisfied FULLY that those in-river methodologies… that we are using…. are the most appropriate means….that is why we doing it that way… of minimising the risk of adverse impact on the River Nore.”

An Bord Pleanala Decision , 4th March:

“Having considered the request from Kilkenny County Council and the report of the Inspector… the Board has decided not to make the requested amendment.”

Save Kilkenny-
"An Bord Pleanala has definitively rejected Kilkenny County Councils’ application for retrospective planning permission for the in-river works done last summer. So whether or not the Kilkenny County Council believe that their methodology “are the most appropriate means" is entirely irrelevant. The issue here is simple- Kilkenny County Council failed to adhere to the conditions imposed by An Bord Pleanala.

Which will result in??.....probably nothing, unfortunately.
I am completely against this bridge etc. but think it's going to be built regardless.

Silverscott · 09-03-2015 5:05pm

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/future-proof/the-m50-grinds-to-a-halt-twice-a-day-we-cant-build-further-out-31035344.html Kilkenny gets a mention.

kikel · 10-03-2015 8:55pm

Silverscott wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/future-proof/the-m50-grinds-to-a-halt-twice-a-day-we-cant-build-further-out-31035344.html Kilkenny gets a mention.

Why so many of our councillors cannot see how much traffic this CAS will bring to KK streets is unbelievable.

Nicholas Walsh · 11-03-2015 9:17am

Please read latest newsletter from Save Kilkenny bridge protestors that argues that they were vindicated by An Bord Pleanala Decision (not just by An Bord Pleanala Report as Simon Walton argued on KCLR). Which carries more weight An Bord Pleanala Decision or Kilkenny County Council spin in High Court? Case is in April. Here are some extracts and my conclusions from reading it which is really shocking.

"Kilkenny County Council has finally been caught contravening planning permissions."
Three options are-
1-
"So where to now? The council could work in accordance with the planning conditions prescribed by An Bord Pleanala but it has already claimed that the conditions make the work impossible." Conclusion- THEY CAN"T GO BACK. NOT AN ISSUE OF COST. BUT METHODOLOGIES THEY HAVE ALREADY RULED OUT THEMSELVES.
2-
"It could go back to square one with an entirely new application to the Bord but that would reopen the process to pubic consultation, to renewed opposition from the likes of An Taisce, Kilkenny Archaeological Society and The Heritage Council and to vociferous objections from the people of Kilkenny." Conclusion- IF THEY GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE IT COULD TAKE YEARS IF NOT DECADES TO GET PAST ORGANISATIONS AND A PUBLIC WHO ARE MUCH MORE MOTIVATED.
3-
"Or could cease all work ,abandon the whole sorry mess and stop throwing good money after bad" Conclusion-ALL THAT IS BUILT SO FAR IS FOUNDATIONS ON ONE SIDE AND A GRAVEL MOUND ON OTHER SIDE. EASY TO STOP NOW. AND CHEAP TOO at €2 MILLION. GALWAY WASTED €14 MILLION WITHOUT BUILDING METRE OF NEW RING ROAD. WHY CAN'T KILKENNY COUNTY COUNCIL SAVE TENS OF MILLIONS FOR BRIDGE THAT WILL NEVER BE FINISHED AND GO NOWHERE?

Full Save Kilkenny Newsletter on their Facebook page. Aslo check out #savekilkenny on Twitter.

linny · 11-03-2015 10:46am

Nicholas Walsh wrote: »

Please read latest newsletter from Save Kilkenny bridge protestors that argues that they were vindicated by An Bord Pleanala Decision (not just by An Bord Pleanala Report as Simon Walton argued on KCLR). Which carries more weight An Bord Pleanala Decision or Kilkenny County Council spin in High Court? Case is in April. Here are some extracts and my conclusions from reading it which is really shocking.

"Kilkenny County Council has finally been caught contravening planning permissions."
Three options are-
1-
"So where to now? The council could work in accordance with the planning conditions prescribed by An Bord Pleanala but it has already claimed that the conditions make the work impossible." Conclusion- THEY CAN"T GO BACK. NOT AN ISSUE OF COST. BUT METHODOLOGIES THEY HAVE ALREADY RULED OUT THEMSELVES.
2-
"It could go back to square one with an entirely new application to the Bord but that would reopen the process to pubic consultation, to renewed opposition from the likes of An Taisce, Kilkenny Archaeological Society and The Heritage Council and to vociferous objections from the people of Kilkenny." Conclusion- IF THEY GO BACK TO SQUARE ONE IT COULD TAKE YEARS IF NOT DECADES TO GET PAST ORGANISATIONS AND A PUBLIC WHO ARE MUCH MORE MOTIVATED.
3-
"Or could cease all work ,abandon the whole sorry mess and stop throwing good money after bad" Conclusion-ALL THAT IS BUILT SO FAR IS FOUNDATIONS ON ONE SIDE AND A GRAVEL MOUND ON OTHER SIDE. EASY TO STOP NOW. AND CHEAP TOO at €2 MILLION. GALWAY WASTED €14 MILLION WITHOUT BUILDING METRE OF NEW RING ROAD. WHY CAN'T KILKENNY COUNTY COUNCIL SAVE TENS OF MILLIONS FOR BRIDGE THAT WILL NEVER BE FINISHED AND GO NOWHERE?

Full Save Kilkenny Newsletter on their Facebook page. Aslo check out #savekilkenny on Twitter.

do these people ever stop can ye not just shut up and let them get on with building this bridge and new road for the betterment of Kilkenny.............

Captain Havoc · 11-03-2015 12:27pm

kikel wrote: »

Why so many of our councillors cannot see how much traffic this CAS will bring to KK streets is unbelievable.

It won't, the amount of traffic isn't going to miraculously increase because there's a new bridge in town. The traffic levels be same, everything will be much the same except people will use the new bridge instead of Green's Bridge. Could you explain where this extra traffic is going to come from? If there's twenty thousand vehicular journeys made in Kilkenny every day (a number I pulled from my head), a new bridge isn't going to increase the number of required vehicular activity, why would there? People come to Kilkenny for business, family or leisure, the bridge does not increase the demand for any of these.

Sky King · 11-03-2015 1:01pm

Could you explain where this extra traffic is going to come from?

Traffic coming from Callan road area and heading for comer road area which would otherwise have gone around the ring road.
Traffic coming from Comer road area and heading for Callan road area which would otherwise have gone around the ring road.
Traffic coming from Freshford road and heading to Kilkenny city east which would otherwise have taken Ardaloo road and comer road into town.

If you read the post you are replying to, the poster is saying that the bridge will bring traffic to the Kilkenny streets, which it will. It will route all the trucks that currently use green's bridge (and some that use ardaloo) towards the city centre, bringing traffic to the city streets.

People come to Kilkenny for business, family or leisure, the bridge does not increase the demand for any of these.

They also come just to pass through. Thanks to CAS they'll be passing through the centre of the town instead of bypassing it.

kikel · 11-03-2015 1:25pm

kikel wrote: »

From the council website, the 7350 vehicles that will use it:

Here is a post from me earlier and the traffic volumes over the next few years and the effect the cas will have on it. You could argue that these volumes would happen anyway. That is true, they could happen but if you build a road such as this ultimately people will use it. This has been sen on Dublins m50. They keep building it bigger and traffic volumes on that road increase. The council should be looking at way of reducing traffic and making our city more cycling, walking friendly.

Personally I think this model is flawed as it does not take into account the 500 plus jobs the council say are coming to the site.

mountcisco · 11-03-2015 2:07pm

linny wrote: »

do these people ever stop can ye not just shut up and let them get on with building this bridge and new road for the betterment of Kilkenny.............

So the council should be allowed ignore conditions set down by An Bord Pleanala? If so, why should anyone follow planning rules. Let's have a free-for-all:D

Nicholas Walsh · 11-03-2015 6:09pm

do these people ever stop can ye not just shut up- by these people I hope don't mean the High Court judges and An Bord Pleanala who decide if all planning is legal or not. Let us knock down Castle and Rothe House and the Cathedral so and build a McDonalds a Tesco and get The Spire down from Dublin. If by betterment to the city you mean polluting the river with unwashed stones and kill all the fish then you have a very different view of betterment. Why exactly is this bridge being built? To relieve traffic? No it will only get worse. To make Brewery more valuable? No. It will only make less valuable. It is an insanity and it is thankfully looking like it will be stopped by highest court in the land. Sad that they knocked those poor houses on Vicar Street out of spite.

Petition to Prioritise the Ring Road over the Central Access Scheme

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