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'Foetus misdiagnosis'

13

Comments

  • #62
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    ****ing Doctors who think they know it all, they would want a kick up the arse, i remember when my Uncle was dying the actual doctor said well he is old anyway:mad: i lost the plot on him and nearly decked him.


  • #63
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,539 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The most arrogant and pompous people you will meet. Not all may I add, but a damn lot of them, who have that arrogant and condescending way of dealing with the "average joe." They look down on the ordinary person, as if because they are doctors they are above us mere mortals.


  • #64
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    For me, the biggest issue is the fact that there is no insistance that people have a second scan befor the final determination is made. Listening to that lady from Galway on Morning Ireland, she had to continuously insist that she wanted a second scan. The nurses kept telling her it wouldn't make a difference and that she would miss her slot in theatre.

    I am of the opinion that death is kind of a final outcome, there ain't no going back from it, so why the hell are some people in the medical profession so loathe to pay heed to the wishes of the patient.

    Here was a woman who had already had two children and a miscarriage and so, had an idea about such matters, yet when she raises her concerns, she is more or less treated like an annoyance. My heart goes out to any women who didn't insist on a second opinion and had the procedure - how must they now be feeling.

    The fact that you have a good acdemic record does not give you the right to adopt and air of infallibility. I fully acknowledge that there are some excellent doctors and nurses out there but there are also some shocking ones. Please, if you view your patients as an inconvenience or if you are unwilling to listen to their concerns and fears then do us all a favour and quit or take a job in a lab.


  • #65
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    noaddedsugar wrote: »
    That's awful but I really don't find it that hard to believe. I had a scan at 8wks pregnant and they didn't find a heartbeat, that was on a Friday. I was told to come back on the Monday for a d&c. On the Monday I asked for another scan before the procedure and grudgingly they agreed, the man who was doing the scan even asked me what I was doing there as there wasn't going to be a change over the weekend. Lo and behold they found a heartbeat. The sonographer just said it's a viable pregnancy and sent me on my way. My son is now 3. That was in UCHG.

    are you the lady they were talking about on the news this morning?


  • #66
    Hannibal Smith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭Hannibal Smith


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    For me, the biggest issue is the fact that there is no insistance that people have a second scan befor the final determination is made. Listening to that lady from Galway on Morning Ireland, she had to continuously insist that she wanted a second scan. The nurses kept telling her it wouldn't make a difference and that she would miss her slot in theatre.

    I am of the opinion that death is kind of a final outcome, there ain't no going back from it, so why the hell are some people in the medical profession so loathe to pay heed to the wishes of the patient.

    Here was a woman who had already had two children and a miscarriage and so, had an idea about such matters, yet when she raises her concerns, she is more or less treated like an annoyance. My heart goes out to any women who didn't insist on a second opinion and had the procedure - how must they now be feeling.

    The fact that you have a good acdemic record does not give you the right to adopt and air of infallibility. I fully acknowledge that there are some excellent doctors and nurses out there but there are also some shocking ones. Please, if you view your patients as an inconvenience or if you are unwilling to listen to their concerns and fears then do us all a favour and quit or take a job in a lab.

    that's exactly my thinking on it. I'd rather miss my slot in theatre if there was one shred of doubt in my mind than go ahead just so as not to disrupt the hospital's schedule.

    Like you say, i feel so sorry for those who believed the doc and went ahead with the procedure :(


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  • #67
    TequilaMockingBird
    Registered Users Posts: 4,392 ✭✭✭TequilaMockingBird


    I was sent home from Limerick Maternity Hospital and told I was miscarrying. I had already lost a child, so I was pretty sh*t scared nervous anyway.

    The child is 9 now.

    B*stards.


  • #68
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    walshb wrote: »
    The most arrogant and pompous people you will meet. Not all may I add, but a damn lot of them, who have that arrogant and condescending way of dealing with the "average joe." They look down on the ordinary person, as if because they are doctors they are above us mere mortals.
    Well they do build a persona to deal with the fact they're watching people die on a daily basis, that's true of most doctors around the world. I've heard it said you'd much rather have a cocky doctor than a insecure one.


  • #69
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Well they do build a persona to deal with the fact they're watching people die on a daily basis, that's true of most doctors around the world. I've heard it said you'd much rather have a cocky doctor than a insecure one.

    Is there a statutory bar on having one who lies somewhere in between?


  • #70
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    Hannibal Smith wrote: »
    are you the lady they were talking about on the news this morning?

    Nope, I had a look at her profile and she isn't....I know Martha personally and actually met her on the morning she attended for the procedure walking thru the UCHG grounds.
    Needless to say I was dismayed to hear that she had suffered a miscarriage and even more shocked to discover the subsequent happenings of the day a few months later when we next met!!!

    Sad stuff indeed and certainly does not give pregnant women out there any confidence whatsoever.:(


  • #71
    Wazdakka
    Registered Users Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭Wazdakka


    Sneaky way to set a precedent for legal abortion?


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  • #72
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    walshb wrote: »
    The most arrogant and pompous people you will meet. Not all may I add, but a damn lot of them, who have that arrogant and condescending way of dealing with the "average joe." They look down on the ordinary person, as if because they are doctors they are above us mere mortals.

    let no one dare question them either


  • #73
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Wazdakka wrote: »
    Sneaky way to set a precedent for legal abortion?

    how?


  • #74
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    he Children's Minister has suggested the establishment of maternity centres of excellence in the wake of revelations about misdiagnosed miscarriages.

    Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/andrews-calls-for-new-approach-to-maternity-care-460963.html#ixzz0qLhvxi2X

    Shouldn't all hospitals be centers of excellence?

    Who wants to go to somewhere that isn't a center of excellence?

    While there is a big problem with medical staff not listening and over confidence. I think people need to remember medicine is not a sure thing, and medical staff are just human and thus can make mistakes. Likewise medical staff need to have the humility and common sense to check and double check what they do, especially if theres any margin for doubt.

    Our consultant, offered a 2nd opinion, and said its perfectly reasonable to do so. Doctors should have no problem with patients asking for 2nd or 3rd opinion and the system should cater for that. We asked for a 2nd opinion once and were referred to another maternity hospital. We were accommodated in everyday possible. We continued to use the 1st consultant subsequently.

    That said I think our health system is in tatters. As a system its gone lame.


  • #75
    kiwi123
    Closed Accounts Posts: 163 ✭✭kiwi123


    Hannibal Smith wrote: »
    I was just thinking the same! What kind of idiots are they employing there!

    As shocking and all as this story is, before people start slating the entire staff of the Lourdes hospital i think people really need to keep in mind that not all of the staff are incompetent. There are, and have been in the past a number of high profile cases which highlight the complete ignorance of SOME staff,doctors / nurses etc.
    galwayrush wrote: »
    Very highly paid idiots.:(
    To imply that everyone in the hospital is over paid and unprofessional is ridiculous as there isn't enough money to employ people to fill positions in various departments at the minute, let alone ensure that everyone has a high income.

    The sad reality is that medicine is a subjective game, everything depends on the diagnosis of your doctor and all you can do is hope that you get a highly skilled one. Really not good enough in this day and age, but maybe it is a reflection on the training doctors receive and the kind of people that are allocated places on the training course and employed in hospitals.


  • #76
    UpCork
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭UpCork


    I find this story so disturbing. We were only chatting about it at break time today at work and thinking of all the people who were perhaps told the same thing and went through the whole procedure. There is no way for them to know whether mistakes were made with their baby or not. What an awful thing to live with your whole life.

    Stories like this and other stories that have been in the press in recent times fill me with dread and I only pray that I will never need to undergo any form of serious tests or procdures for a long time as I hold no faith in the medical system.


  • #77
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    UpCork wrote: »
    I find this story so disturbing. We were only chatting about it at break time today at work and thinking of all the people who were perhaps told the same thing and went through the whole procedure. There is no way for them to know whether mistakes were made with their baby or not. What an awful thing to live with your whole life.

    Discussing it with others in work too.

    My partner suffered one, as did a few of our friends, and it's something that play on your mind now.


  • #78
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,539 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Don't be worrying guys, according to the experts, it's a rare occurrrence:rolleyes:


  • #79
    UpCork
    Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭UpCork


    There has just been so much done wrong in the last few year in the health system in Ireland that it makes me so dispondent. We are supposed to be a first world country for goodness sakes. It makes me so cross and am terrified if myself or a family members needs serious health treatment in the future.


  • #80
    mrsdewinter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭mrsdewinter


    The_Minister wrote: »
    What is interesting is that the unborn have a right to life under the Constitution - this is a bigger deal here than it would be in other countries, since we don't have abortion.

    What? What on earth is that supposed to mean? Are you trotting out that tired old chestnut that in countries where abortion is legal, they don't ... say, cherish the children of the nation equally? The way we allowed generations of of children to be cherished in industrial schools?

    This is a major fug-up, no matter how you look at it. Abortion laws or no, it would be a resignation issue in any other country.


  • #81
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    walshb wrote: »
    The most arrogant and pompous people you will meet. Not all may I add, but a damn lot of them, who have that arrogant and condescending way of dealing with the "average joe." They look down on the ordinary person, as if because they are doctors they are above us mere mortals.

    It is actually this kind of simplistic over-generalised thinking that leads to these kinds of mistakes happening.

    The simplistic approach is this: Ultrasonography machines and their operator are usually always right. Therefore if it says your baby is dead, it is, so move on, take the abortifacient and come back for a D&C.

    The nuanced individualistic approach is this: Ultrasonography machines and their operator are not infallible. Given the gravity of the situation and the consequences, come back in a week for a re-check.

    Given your knee-jerk reaction lacking in any subtlety or nuance, you would probably have acted like the very people you deride. I wonder if you have the insight to realise that?


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  • #82
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,539 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    drkpower wrote: »
    It is actually this kind of simplistic over-generalised thinking that leads to these kinds of mistakes happening.

    The simplistic approach is this: Ultrasonography machines and their operator are usually always right. Therefore if it says your baby is dead, it is, so move on, take the abortifacient and come back for a D&C.

    The nuanced individualistic approach is this: Ultrasonography machines and their operator are not infallible. Given the gravity of the situation and the consequences, come back in a week for a re-check.

    Given your knee-jerk reaction lacking in any subtlety or nuance, you would probably have acted like the very people you deride. I wonder if you have the insight to realise that?

    Act arrogant and pompous and condescending? No, that is a separate issue.

    My point was with doctors in general, or didn't you read the post?


  • #83
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    walshb wrote: »
    Act arrogant and pompous and condescending? No, that is a separate issue.

    My point was with doctors in general, or didn't you read the post?

    Yes, it was your lumping in together and broadly charachterising of 'doctors in general' which was my point. Did you read the first line of my post?


  • #84
    Banned Account
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Banned Account


    drkpower wrote: »
    Yes, it was your lumping in together and broadly charachterising of 'doctors in general' which was my point. Did you read the first line of my post?

    It is only possible to argue in generalistic terms on a forum such as this one. For what it's worth, there is definately a perception amongst many members of the public that they views are not accorded the importance which they feels should be attached to them when dealing with members of the medical profession.

    Be this the product of misinformation or be it a truthful representation, the fact remains that the perception is out there. The medical profession should make an attempt to deal with this perception accordingly.

    A woman who is told by numerous professionals (not just doctors) that she is wasting her time etc etc, is not acceptable.


  • #85
    gaeilgegrinds1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭gaeilgegrinds1


    Not unheard of, happened my mother quite a few years ago. Never got an apology either.


  • #86
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    What can I say I'm not at all surprised by the OTT reactionary hyperbole of the usual AH crew. Doctors are human too, and are known to make mistakes on occasion. To say that the HSE is a terrible organisation on the back of a few misdiagnoses is ludicrous.

    I'm waiting for the call for Harneys resignation.


  • #87
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    What can I say I'm not at all surprised by the OTT reactionary hyperbole of the usual AH crew. Doctors are human too, and are known to make mistakes on occasion. To say that the HSE is a terrible organisation on the back of a few misdiagnoses is ludicrous.

    I'm waiting for the call for Harneys resignation.

    Normally you might have a point but what's happened here repeatedly is that doctors using machines and techniques which are known to be fallible have decided based on one test alone that an unborn baby is dead. It was only at the patient's insistence that a second or third test was carried out.

    Some were ridiculed or made to feel like they were being awkward simply for asking the doctor to check again and be sure.

    Few if any apologies were received.

    There's making a mistake and then there's being careless and inconsiderate.

    Doctors failed their patients not with the initial mistakes. That can happen anyone as you said. But with what happened next.

    And the HSE is at fault because its procedures are not robust enough to deal with foreseeable problems.


  • #88
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Fitzcaraldo wrote: »
    Be this the product of misinformation or be it a truthful representation, the fact remains that the perception is out there. The medical profession should make an attempt to deal with this perception accordingly.

    I agree.
    And the general public should avoid over-generalising in respect of an entire profession, the majority of whom spend their careers trying to help people in a bone-fide manner.


  • #89
    Single1
    Registered Users Posts: 41 ✭Single1


    Hi all, I agree with the fact that hospital staff are human and errors can be made but I do think that when it comes to this a second scan on another machine should be standard practice.
    I had a missed miscarriage July 2009 in Cork and we were so upset we just took the news and assumed that there was no mistake. On hearing all of this on the news we have done nothing but wonder what if a mistake had been made. It's heartbreaking to think that we could have our little child here now had we asked for a second opinion. I was sent home that day to come back the following morning for a D&C and that is what I did. I do wish now that I had asked for a second opinion.
    I wonder if there were any others on the same date at CUMH.


  • #90
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    A friend of mine has been told on three separate occasions that her unborn child was dead, and had D&Cs. She's absolutely shattered!:mad: And nothing I can say will ever console her!

    In all fairness, I have to say that the Gynaecologist I had was superb - I couldn't praise him highly enough. But I was admitted with a miscarriage at one stage, and I can only describe the doctor who attended me as the biggest B*tch I've ever had the misfortune to meet. Even the attendant nurse protested - as did my own doctor the following morning.

    So, some doctors are really superb - but some really shouldn't practice medicine IMO. Regrettably, the female doctor I refer to still practices medicine - and I truly sympathise with her patients.

    Noreen


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  • #91
    dezzyd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 197 ✭✭dezzyd


    Single1 wrote: »
    Hi all, I agree with the fact that hospital staff are human and errors can be made but I do think that when it comes to this a second scan on another machine should be standard practice.
    I had a missed miscarriage July 2009 in Cork and we were so upset we just took the news and assumed that there was no mistake. On hearing all of this on the news we have done nothing but wonder what if a mistake had been made. It's heartbreaking to think that we could have our little child here now had we asked for a second opinion. I was sent home that day to come back the following morning for a D&C and that is what I did. I do wish now that I had asked for a second opinion.
    I wonder if there were any others on the same date at CUMH.

    Same thing with me in CUMH - (not same date though). Like yourself, just assumed what we were being told was correct, but now can't help but wonder.


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