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*Ahem* slight rant

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Comments

  • #62
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    King Mob wrote: »
    So it does not bother you at all that you can't actually explain this despondency?

    If you think God is monstrous, then he is not all-loving. So why call him God?


    So do not believe in things you cant explain?


    And again when did I say God was monstrous?


  • #63
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Well not really a 'toughy'. Over population is a real problem, if they didnt die then we'd all die and as Bono says "thank god its them instead of us", and billions dont die because of no rain either. I hope this has been educational for you.

    Problem for who? Ireland is under-populated.

    AFAIK Canada, Russia and Australia are empty, as are many States in the US. (Alaska, Wyoming, Montana,. . . )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Usagraphmap.svg

    I know Japan is classed as 'crowded', but they are doing just fine, I reckon.

    There's room for 10 billion plus humans on this planet. Consumption will need to be tweaked a little eg: Americans and their 5 ltr cars.

    On the topic of disease and natural disasters, only we can tackle these problems. Prayers aren't worth sh1t!


  • #64
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    joseph brand wrote: »
    Problem for who? Ireland is under-populated.

    AFAIK Canada, Russia and Australia are empty, as are many States in the US. (Alaska, Wyoming, Montana,. . . )

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Usagraphmap.svg

    I know Japan is classed as 'crowded', but they are doing just fine, I reckon.

    There's room for 10 billion plus humans on this planet. Consumption will need to be tweaked a little eg: Americans and their 5 ltr cars.

    On the topic of disease and natural disasters, only we can tackle these problems. Prayers aren't worth sh1t!

    Ok....

    There's more to population than area required.


  • #65
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    So do not believe in things you cant explain?
    It depends.
    But when my explanation for something runs into a contradiction I cannot overcome, I reject that explanation.
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    And again when did I say God was monstrous?
    You said that curbing population via disasters and disease was monstrous.

    According to you God does not seem to care about anyone and has no problems not only allowing these people to die horribly because of a flaw in his design, but also causing indescribable suffering to the families and friends of the people he kills.
    This is not the action of someone who loves anyone.
    Therefore God cannot be all loving, and if he is not all loving, why call him God?


  • #66
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Ok....

    There's more to population than area required.

    A LOT more. Too much to go into here.

    But still, the Earth can support a lot more people. My point really, is that the Earth throws a lot of problems our way in the from of disease and various natural disasters. What we have to do is find solutions to these problems with our intellect.

    There are many who believe that an 'oul pray will sort it out.

    I have an image in my head of Fr Ted looking for an answer to the Milk Float dilemma (bomb onboard) and the only suggestions from the other priests is to say mass. A lesson in futility.
    No point explaining the rest. We've all seen it. :D


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  • #67
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Ok....

    There's more to population than area required.
    And god can't overcome these issues without murdering people?


  • #68
    Gumbi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,698 ✭✭✭Gumbi


    joseph brand wrote: »
    A LOT more. Too much to go into here.

    But still, the Earth can support a lot more people. My point really, is that the Earth throws a lot of problems our way in the from of disease and various natural disasters. What we have to do is find solutions to these problems with our intellect.

    There are many who believe that an 'oul pray will sort it out.

    I have an image in my head of Fr Ted looking for an answer to the Milk Float dilemma (bomb onboard) and the only suggestions from the other priests is to say mass. A lesson in futility.
    No point explaining the rest. We've all seen it. :D
    Not if we all live as most of us do in the Western World.


  • #69
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    King Mob wrote: »
    It depends.
    But when my explanation for something runs into a contradiction I cannot overcome, I reject that explanation.


    You said that curbing population via disasters and disease was monstrous.

    According to you God does not seem to care about anyone and has no problems not only allowing these people to die horribly because of a flaw in his design, but also causing indescribable suffering to the families and friends of the people he kills.
    This is not the action of someone who loves anyone.
    Therefore God cannot be all loving, and if he is not all loving, why call him God?

    What definition of God did you see to say he's 'all loving?'


    And lets say God didnt exist? easy right for you, then how can you explain why earth has oxygen, and no other planet around us has? That's if you believe in other planets, maybe no other planet exists but yet you believe there are because somebody told you.

    Some things are because they are, I cant explain it, I dont know why God does these things, maybe there is no God but what harm is it doing you if you I believe in something?


  • #70
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    And lets say God didnt exist? easy right for you, then how can you explain why earth has oxygen, and no other planet around us has?

    Is that a serious question? If so, you'll find the answer here
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    maybe no other planet exists but yet you believe there are because somebody told you.

    Well, we can actually SEE the planets. Who told you that god kills people to control the population? That's right, no one, you just made that shít up.


  • #71
    swampgas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,535 ✭✭✭swampgas


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    What definition of God did you see to say he's 'all loving?'

    I don't think you claimed this, however many Christians push the message that "God is love", "Jesus loves you", "For God so loved the world ..." etc. ad nauseum. IMO the fact that the world is actually a pretty harsh place is incompatible with any concept of a benevolent god.

    Did god really have to create so many species of parasitic wasp?
    And lets say God didnt exist? easy right for you, then how can you explain why earth has oxygen, and no other planet around us has? That's if you believe in other planets, maybe no other planet exists but yet you believe there are because somebody told you.

    If the earth didn't have oxygen (and life) we wouldn't be here asking the question. Just because a phenomenon has no obvious explanation (the earth having oxygen does , btw) doesn't mean that "God did it" is the only alternative.
    Some things are because they are, I cant explain it, I dont know why God does these things, maybe there is no God but what harm is it doing you if you I believe in something?

    You can believe anything you like - but if you want to argue that something is right/wrong on a forum like this based on your beliefs, don't be surprised to be asked to explain why those beliefs should be taken seriously.


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  • #72
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Is that a serious question? If so, you'll find the answer here



    Well, we can actually SEE the planets. Who told you that god kills people to control the population? That's right, no one, you just made that shít up.


    Again, when did I say God kills people to control the population?


    So Magic tell me why people starve to death when there's enough food to go around? Why do spend money on crap things and over consume food and natural resources when so many are starving? Why do you buy cheap clothes and electronics when people die to produce these?

    Maybe you're the one that's monstrous?


  • #73
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Again, when did I say God kills people to control the population?

    Right here, god made man, god is omniscient, god made man knowing he'd kill to control the population (according to you), ergo god kills to control the population. Why couldn't god just get things right from the start, seeing as he's almighty?
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    So Magic tell me why people starve to death when there's enough food to go around? Why do spend money on crap things and over consume food and natural resources when so many are starving? Why do you buy cheap clothes and electronics when people die to produce these?

    Maybe you're the one that's monstrous?

    Not as monstrous as your god, clearly.


  • #74
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Right here, god made man, god is omniscient, god made man knowing he'd kill to control the population (according to you), ergo god kills to control the population. Why couldn't god just get things right from the start, seeing as he's almighty?



    Not as monstrous as your god, clearly.


    So what you're saying is that I didnt actually use any of those words.
    god made man, god is omniscient, god made man knowing he'd kill to control the population (according to you),

    And again maybe the God you dont believe in is all those things but the God I believe in I just cant say that is true or untrue.


  • #75
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Again, when did I say God kills people to control the population?


    So Magic tell me why people starve to death when there's enough food to go around? Why do spend money on crap things and over consume food and natural resources when so many are starving? Why do you buy cheap clothes and electronics when people die to produce these?

    Maybe you're the one that's monstrous?

    People can be dicks.

    To take Africa, as an example. People are starving, a lot of mouths to feed, to put it bluntly. The the church comes in to exacerbate the issue by banning contraception. The best solution for family planning and AIDS prevention is taken away. Does contraception pop-up somewhere in the bible?

    On the issue of 'cheap clothes' and electronics. If we didn't buy these clothes, the workers would be worse off. Income/ jobs taken away. A clean break would be detrimental. Gradual improvements in working conditions are what is needed.

    But, what have you got against electronics?


  • #76
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    joseph brand wrote: »
    People can be dicks.

    But, what have you got against electronics?


    Well it's a little off topic so I'll keep it brief - There are things called blood diamonds right, but there are also blood minerals - Basically people are sent down mines for tantalum, tin, tungsten and gold. These people are like slaves and the minerals are sold on to fund civil wars, tantalum, tin, tungsten and gold are all used in electronics from mobile phones, PS3 and laptops.


  • #77
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    What definition of God did you see to say he's 'all loving?'
    The one most people use.
    Are you now saying that it is not part of your definition?
    If it is not, then the God you worship is clearly are evil monster.
    But since you don't actually believe this, you're forced to face the contradiction.
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    And lets say God didnt exist? easy right for you, then how can you explain why earth has oxygen, and no other planet around us has? That's if you believe in other planets, maybe no other planet exists but yet you believe there are because somebody told you.
    The actual answer for this is both complex and interesting, encompassing chemistry, biology and geology. Far more so than the childish "Goddidit".
    In fact this just raises more problems for the idea of God, since to provide us with oxygen, he had to wipe out entire branches of life he created.

    But ignoring these point then your claim begs the question that if God was kind enough to give us oxygen, why does the vast vast majority of the universe kill us instantly?
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Some things are because they are, I cant explain it, I dont know why God does these things, maybe there is no God but what harm is it doing you if you I believe in something?
    Then if your explanation (God) doesn't make sense, why do you think it's an explanation?

    You're free to believe whatever you'd like, but what's the harm in asking you to back up what you believe when you state it on a discussion forum (and then point out when you abjectly fail to back it up)?


  • #78
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Well it's a little off topic so I'll keep it brief - There are things called blood diamonds right, but there are also blood minerals - Basically people are sent down mines for tantalum, tin, tungsten and gold. These people are like slaves and the minerals are sold on to fund civil wars, tantalum, tin, tungsten and gold are all used in electronics from mobile phones, PS3 and laptops.

    I agree with you. I bought my wife a ring with cubic zirconia's. (not engagement or wedding ring). Diamonds are a myth. Women (in general) don't see that.

    Electronics are vital to humans now, and in the future. Surely you don't wanna go backwards?

    To keep us OT, humans need to be progressive, change and adapt. It increases our chance of survival. Electronics are borne out of science, not religion. Religion asks people to study the bible. The bible is a very very very old book written by ignorant goat herders. It's not relevant today.

    Wouldn't time be better spent studying politics and science? Understand the society around you and the natural world. Real knowledge.

    The internet has enabled us to find information on any subject, empowering us. We no longer have to be drip-fed information by the media.

    Jay Rockefeller said that the internet should never have existed. His family are part of a group who run America, so this is what you'd expect someone of his ilk to say. The papers won't write about him, but you can find out about him online.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct9xzXUQLuY


    I seem to be rambling, but the general jist is 'control'.


  • #79
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Edit: I'm pretty much done with this forum it just isnt for me.

    And yet you continue to post for several pages. That's A&A for you, addictive!
    King Mob wrote: »
    And so then when a parent leaves a baby out in a snow storm, it's not the parent to blame, it's the weather?

    This is Sparta.


  • #80
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    addictive alright but also very fun to discuss matters with the overly non religious types :)


  • #81
    sephir0th
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭sephir0th


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    addictive alright but also very fun to discuss matters with the overly non religious types :)

    I know what you mean, those 'types' that tend to think critically about ideas rather than just blindly believing them.


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  • #82
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    sephir0th wrote: »
    I know what you mean, those 'types' that tend to think critically about ideas rather than just blindly believing them.

    You seem particularly overly non-religious, have you got 100% proof of no god or do you blindly believe what some scientist tells you?


  • #83
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    You seem particularly overly non-religious, have you got 100% proof of no god or do you blindly believe what some scientist tells you?
    You're the one who believes there is one, the onus is on you prove he exists.

    Personally, when there's zero evidence of something existing I tend to believe it doesn't exist, I require no scientist to come to that conclusion for me, just common sense will do.


  • #84
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    You seem particularly overly non-religious, have you got 100% proof of no god or do you blindly believe what some scientist tells you?
    Being an atheist is about not believing what religious people tell you. :)

    Take the last few pages of this thread for example. The stuff you say you believe has been picked apart like a turkey at Christmas. The glaring inconsistencies make it the latest in a very, very long line of religious arguments that fail to convince.


  • #85
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    You're the one who believes there is one, the onus is on you prove he exists.

    Ha very good.

    Well I'll keep it simple and explain this as if you were a child - Having God is like having ice cream, there's no onus on me to prove to you I have ice cream and I dont care if you dont believe me that I have ice cream because the simple fact is I dont care what you think because I have ice cream and you dont.

    Now I know it's 'cool' and 'hip' not to believe in ice cream but deep down I think you believe in ice cream and would really like some ice cream.

    Dades wrote: »
    Being an atheist is about not believing what religious people tell you. :)

    Take the last few pages of this thread for example. The stuff you say you believe has been picked apart like a turkey at Christmas. The glaring inconsistencies make it the latest in a very, very long line of religious arguments that fail to convince.

    Well I disagree, no one took apart any argument I made, more like mis-quoted me and had ago at their own ideology of a God they dont believe in.


  • #86
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Ha very good.

    Well I'll keep it simple and explain this as if you were a child - Having God is like having ice cream, there's no onus on me to prove to you I have ice cream and I dont care if you dont believe me that I have ice cream because the simple fact is I dont care what you think because I have ice cream and you dont.

    Now I know it's 'cool' and 'hip' not to believe in ice cream but deep down I think you believe in ice cream and would really like some ice cream.

    How delightfully egotistical of you. Yes but of course, everyone deep down believes in a God, but we pretend not to to be hip.

    Seriously, are you really that deluded?


  • #87
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Well I disagree, no one took apart any argument I made, more like mis-quoted me and had ago at their own ideology of a God they dont believe in.
    You said stuff like this in response to questions about natural disasters:
    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Human beings are on the top of the food chain so we have no predators so things like disease and man made disasters are introduced to stop our population spiraling out of control.
    Various posters pointed out how logically flawed this notion was. You then do the next natural thing for a believer to do when faced with an answer which is change the subject by asking another question.

    Lack of argument for religion = atheism.
    Now I know it's 'cool' and 'hip' not to believe in ice cream but deep down I think you believe in ice cream and would really like some ice cream.
    What you think doesn't really make sense, as your previous posts have shown.


  • #88
    Doc Farrell
    Registered Users Posts: 2,882 ✭✭✭Doc Farrell


    fairly sure atheists like ice cream too....

    The death of someone recently had me pondering on the subject of suicide and near the top of the list against taking ones own life has got to be vanilla ice cream made with real vanilla from pods. That might seem like I'm being facetious about a serious issue but I find that when I take the time to enjoy really good ice cream then all the other nonsense in life just disappears for a while.

    I also forgot how much I enjoy messing about on a bicycle so this week I got a bike to mess about on. In fact I'm off to do so right now. And later I may have some ice cream...


  • #89
    Oranage2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Oranage2


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    How delightfully egotistical of you. Yes but of course, everyone deep down believes in a God, but we pretend not to to be hip.

    Seriously, are you really that deluded?


    Well I guess it's only natural for you to move on to character assassination to win, shame really, I was really enjoying our locking horns so to speak in well thought out discussion.
    Dades wrote: »
    You said stuff like this in response to questions about natural disasters:
    Various posters pointed out how logically flawed this notion was. You then do the next natural thing for a believer to do when faced with an answer which is change the subject by asking another question.

    .

    You're right, I answered a question with my opinion then did the next natural thing which was to move on and answer another question - You're psychological profiling of me is making some disadvantaged inner city V-tec level 5 teacher very proud. :)


  • #90
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    Well I guess it's only natural for you to move on to character assassination to win, shame really, I was really enjoying our locking horns so to speak in well thought out discussion.

    To win what? :confused:

    If you think all atheists really believe in God deep down but pretend not to to appear hip then the only logical conclusion to draw is that you're delusional.


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  • #91
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Character assassinations are only ok when religious people make them, I suppose.


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