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need education advice

  • 15-04-2014 3:54pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭


    hi

    I am unemployed 30 year old seeking to start 3rd level education in 2015.
    electrical/mechanical engineering is what i would love to do, but i am concerned about my maths skills.
    Don't get me wrong, i am a smart man, but i was never good at maths and never really tried it to be. I hated it. Barely passed maths every year, but was very good at other things.
    I think it is my last chance to change career, before i get to old. I have great interest and understanding in electrical and mechanical side of thing, and my dream is to become wind turbine technician. But without electrical or mechanical degree there are no hope getting in industry.

    Is there any online test to evaluate your ability for maths?(not current skills,but ability). Just to figure out if i tried hard, will i become good at it?

    I am not looking for encouragement, but for honest opinion if engineering studies are for me ... I have no time and funds, to just "give it a shot".


Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,123 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Did you do honours or ordinary Maths?

    I don't know what a test out of the blue would mean if you did one but if you wanted you could study up and try the DIT Maths Competency Test https://www.dit.ie/study/undergraduate/mathsexamforengineering/

    The thing here is that you'd still be coming in cold and would be studying by yourself so it'll be harder that way.

    Another thing is that the Maths I did for my National Cert (currently a Level 6 I think) in an I.T. was far easier than for my degree (Level 8). When I left the I.T. to go to a Uni the guys who stayed on were studying for a Diploma (now a Level 7) and they said the Maths didn't get any harder but I struggled to figure out what was going on in the Degree Maths class. That is until I worked at exam papers and tutorials and figured out what I needed to know to pass, which is what you need to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭Mandzhalas


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    Did you do honours or ordinary Maths?

    I don't know what a test out of the blue would mean if you did one but if you wanted you could study up and try the DIT Maths Competency Test https://www.dit.ie/study/undergraduate/mathsexamforengineering/

    The thing here is that you'd still be coming in cold and would be studying by yourself so it'll be harder that way.

    Another thing is that the Maths I did for my National Cert (currently a Level 6 I think) in an I.T. was far easier than for my degree (Level 8). When I left the I.T. to go to a Uni the guys who stayed on were studying for a Diploma (now a Level 7) and they said the Maths didn't get any harder but I struggled to figure out what was going on in the Degree Maths class. That is until I worked at exam papers and tutorials and figured out what I needed to know to pass, which is what you need to do.
    ordinary


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭mawk


    I did mechanical and thought that the maths difficulty peaked in 2nd year.
    Either that or I just worked harder as time went on

    If you are coming in at first year and are willing to work I think you will be fine.


    I did the ordinary degree and went working. When I went back a few years later I couldn't do ANY of the calc that was needed. Basic differentiation was totally gone. But with a little work I nailed the final year. They really do teach you what you need to know


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭Shy Ted


    I'd agree with everything Mawk says. Don't write yourself off just because of the maths. People coming straight from their leaving cert will have an advantage but that wears off, and it all pretty much levels out. If you listen in class & do some tutorials at night, you should be grand. A good lecturer/tutor is also important. When I was in first year, my whole class was in the brink of failing maths as the lecturer was atrocious and we couldn't understand him. One of the other lecturers asked his friend (a maths professor) to take us all on for evening classes and it really helped us pass. If you really struggled you could get tutoring. There's nearly always foreign students doing a phd in maths or physics looking to gain more experience in English and offer tutoring as an exchange.

    I'm ranting a bit. But if you really want to do the course and enjoy the mechanical and electrical side of things already, your enthusiasm will definitely stand to you. You're more likely to put the effort in compared to some students coming in half cut and half asleep.

    The real issue will be finding a course that allows you to do a nice mix of electrical and mechanical so you can decide which you'd like to specialise in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 dfin


    Hi Mandzalas,

    There is a course in letterkenny but entry requirements are level 6 electrical or mechanical see link for more info on the sector
    http://www.iwea.com/workinginwind

    I am working as a tecnician (not wind but similar). Most guys would have a trade rather than a college background so I don't think your maths will hold you back if you have good hands on aptitude. It's mainly routine preventative maintenance and some fault finding which alot of the time is common sense and reading the manual.
    Best of luck with it


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    You'll be grand.

    So long as you have basic numeracy skills, like multiplication, fractions, a grasp of algrebra.

    You'll be taught everything else as you go. If you're really worried, pick an engineering course where higher maths isn't a requirement, like in an IT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Mandzhalas wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, i am a smart man, but i was never good at maths and never really tried it to be.
    So you're writing off your ability to succeed at something before you've even had a proper go at it?
    Mandzhalas wrote: »
    I have great interest and understanding in electrical and mechanical side of thing, and my dream is to become wind turbine technician.
    As others have said, you seem very enthusiastic, which is more than can be said for a lot of undergraduate students. If you really want to succeed, you will and even if you don't end up working with wind turbines, an engineering qualification will open a lot of doors for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭lg123


    +1 on everything mawk and shy ted said.

    bring a good work ethic to class and you shouldn't have a problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 382 ✭✭eire-kp


    Mandzhalas wrote: »
    hi

    I am unemployed 30 year old seeking to start 3rd level education in 2015.
    electrical/mechanical engineering is what i would love to do, but i am concerned about my maths skills.
    Don't get me wrong, i am a smart man, but i was never good at maths and never really tried it to be. I hated it. Barely passed maths every year, but was very good at other things.
    I think it is my last chance to change career, before i get to old. I have great interest and understanding in electrical and mechanical side of thing, and my dream is to become wind turbine technician. But without electrical or mechanical degree there are no hope getting in industry.

    Is there any online test to evaluate your ability for maths?(not current skills,but ability). Just to figure out if i tried hard, will i become good at it?

    I am not looking for encouragement, but for honest opinion if engineering studies are for me ... I have no time and funds, to just "give it a shot".

    If you want to become a wind turbine technician try and get an apprenticeship or some practical mechanical/electrical/hydraulic experience, trust me for that area job it would be looked upon better.
    An Level 8 engineering degree would be overkill for that work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 GradEngineer


    I went back to Uni as a mature after getting very poor maths results in my leaving cert. like you I put it down to not applying myself at the time rather than a lack of intellegence.

    When I started the programme I felt like I was way behind but I worked hard at it and after a little while I was aceing every exam! I graduated with first class honours so I think that once your willing to put in the hours at night and seek help when you need it youll fly it!!

    Also if you go ahead with it try to get into an informal study group with some of the other motivated folk in your class! This will make the "figureing it out" part of study much easier!!
    If worst comes to worst theres always more support avaliable in most unis in the form of a learning support centre where you can get help on particular maths principles!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭getupthatyard


    Letterkenny IT have a wind turbine technology course, have a look on their website

    I know a few in my year dropped our after a few weeks of 1st year and started this course the year after, they reckoned math was a lot easier than it was in the mechanical engineering course!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Letterkenny IT have a wind turbine technology course, have a look on their website
    Sounds far too specific to be honest. Electrical or mechanical engineering would provide far more options.
    I know a few in my year dropped our after a few weeks of 1st year and started this course the year after, they reckoned math was a lot easier than it was in the mechanical engineering course!!
    If the maths in an engineering course is easy, then there's something wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭getupthatyard


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Sounds far too specific to be honest. Electrical or mechanical engineering would provide far more options.
    If the maths in an engineering course is easy, then there's something wrong.

    It's a course solely for wind energy technician, the OP said it would be his dream career, no point in doing 3+ years of electrical/mechanical if that course would suit him


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    It's a course solely for wind energy technician...
    So what if he does that course, becomes a wind turbine technician and it's not all he thought it would be?

    Any course that is aimed at preparing individuals for one specific job is far too specialised in my opinion. A more general course is almost certainly more worthwhile.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,220 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Im a graduate engineer myself and was in the exact same predicament as yourself. After four years, my advice is to go for it.. Most colleges have math centres where you can go and get help with your maths, use them thats what they are there for and the people running them are usually math lecturers and only love to pass on their knowledge.

    Maths in engineering can be hard and a lot of work can be put into understanding something. But there will come a time when it all just clicks together and you finally go from learning answers to questions to actually understanding whats going on, Its then you really improve. With a lot of had works and determination you can do it, Don't put yourself down cos you think you can't do it, Thats the biggest reason people fail maths in my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭longhalloween


    Don't put yourself down cos you think you can't do it, Thats the biggest reason people fail maths in my opinion.

    You'll be taught everything you need to pass the exams. Engineering maths boils down to using formulas to get an answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭KeithTS


    I was in a similar situation as yourself a few years ago.
    I only sat the Junior cert before dropping out, did alright at maths but never even saw the LC stuff which is obviously much more difficult.

    I did Electronic Engineering, finishing up in the next couple of weeks, and although the maths is very tough at times, you do so much of it that it's second nature by final year. I will say that leaving it up to faith to see if you're cut out for it is not smart though. If you wait until the course starts to learn the basics and get up to scratch with everybody else it'll be too late.

    About 9 months before the start date of the course I got the JC and LC maths books and spent an hour each evening going through them. At first I couldn't add fractions or do simple question from Junior cert papers, within 6 months I was confident doing every question in the LC maths course. Put the work in and get yourself up to scratch well before the course and you'll be fine.

    Going back to college was the best decision I've made so good luck with it. Put the work in and it'll pay of for you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 smalls90


    You could do a Fetac course that has a maths module this year since you wont be going to third level until 2015. Even if you only attended the maths module it would be worth the money.

    Edit: It would get you back into maths from a basic level so you would be going into third level with some recent experience.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭metrosity


    Mandzhalas wrote: »
    hi

    I am unemployed 30 year old seeking to start 3rd level education in 2015.
    electrical/mechanical engineering is what i would love to do, but i am concerned about my maths skills.
    Don't get me wrong, i am a smart man, but i was never good at maths and never really tried it to be. I hated it. Barely passed maths every year, but was very good at other things.
    I think it is my last chance to change career, before i get to old. I have great interest and understanding in electrical and mechanical side of thing, and my dream is to become wind turbine technician. But without electrical or mechanical degree there are no hope getting in industry.

    Is there any online test to evaluate your ability for maths?(not current skills,but ability). Just to figure out if i tried hard, will i become good at it?

    I am not looking for encouragement, but for honest opinion if engineering studies are for me ... I have no time and funds, to just "give it a shot".

    Everyone's a smart man in their own mind and they feel smarter with each passing year they've been away from exams, increasing in intelligence with each passing year so that by the time they're in their 30's they're geniuses all of them.

    Get to the root of why u sucked at Math and see if it can be corrected. I wouldn't trust an "engineer" that sucked at Math - its practically the language of engineering, and those who suck at Math and work in engineering only thrive through backwater, which is rife in this country - licking the right boots.

    Get to know your ****. If Math isn't for you try an alternative field like design or something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭lg123


    metrosity wrote: »
    If Math isn't for you try an alternative field like design or something.

    design?? surely a lot more mathematical input required for design work than a turbine technician?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16 DenisOakley


    I always found that the math in engineering was generally pretty simple compared to the math that was taught in math for engineering courses.

    So the general approach is normally to suffer the math course and get through with the 50% (or whatever the passmark is) then the engineering math is normally fairly simple rules that you have to apply to discrete problems. There is also usually someone older and wiser that you can go to for advice as required.

    So go for it - but Wind turbines do rely on government subsidy and so the sector will always exist on political whim


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    ...but Wind turbines do rely on government subsidy...
    ...no more than any other form of electricity generation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 DenisOakley


    Vastly more otherwise they wouldn't be built. The electricity they produce is non-economic and too expensive without subsidy.

    Other forms of electricity generation are subsidised in implicit ways - but normally the key way is by giving the electricity company regulatory certainty so that it can plan accordingly to deliver a ROI to its investors to cover the capex.

    This is why the UK is in such trouble at the moment. Its coal and nuclear power stations are reaching their life limits but no one knows how the industry is going to be regulated over the next 25 years (with regular populist attacks on profits) and so the risk of investing is too great.

    I'm all for wind turbines - my company sells the steel that goes into a lot of them - but their is a direct correlation between the number of projects that are built and government alternative energy subsidies


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Vastly more otherwise they wouldn't be built. The electricity they produce is non-economic and too expensive without subsidy.
    This is getting off-topic, but on-shore wind is about the cheapest form of electricity generation there is. Subsidies for renewables are still dwarfed by those for fossil fuels:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27142377


  • Registered Users Posts: 16 DenisOakley


    On a global basis you are correct. But the subsidies are not there for the benefit of producers, rather they are there for the benefit on consumers. I don't live in Eire. I do however live in a country where the government generously gives me 1 Euro subsidy for every Euro that I spend on petrol. Madness. And that is generally true for a large number of energy subsidies. They are an attempt to get populist benefits and are now substantially unrepealable because they have shielded people from market pricing for so long.

    I used to work in a power station in the UK. It had a 2 GW output and consumed 5.5 million tonnes of coal a year. Thats a big beast and you can get a lot of economies of scale when building something that size. In comparison when you build a 500kw turbine you don't get the same economies of scale. You also end up with much low utilisation and much high vairability both of which drive the cost per unit of power up. And that is why producers of wind power need subsidies.

    I can't post links yet but you may find this article at economist dot com /news/briefing/21587782-europes-electricity-providers-face-existential-threat-how-lose-half-trillion-euros interesting


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    On a global basis you are correct. But the subsidies are not there for the benefit of producers, rather they are there for the benefit on consumers. I don't live in Eire. I do however live in a country where the government generously gives me 1 Euro subsidy for every Euro that I spend on petrol. Madness. And that is generally true for a large number of energy subsidies. They are an attempt to get populist benefits and are now substantially unrepealable because they have shielded people from market pricing for so long.

    I used to work in a power station in the UK. It had a 2 GW output and consumed 5.5 million tonnes of coal a year. Thats a big beast and you can get a lot of economies of scale when building something that size. In comparison when you build a 500kw turbine you don't get the same economies of scale. You also end up with much low utilisation and much high vairability both of which drive the cost per unit of power up. And that is why producers of wind power need subsidies.

    I can't post links yet but you may find this article at economist dot com /news/briefing/21587782-europes-electricity-providers-face-existential-threat-how-lose-half-trillion-euros interesting
    I'm not going to continue this here as it's off topic, but I suggest you visit the Sustainability & Environmental Issues forum if you want to continue the discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 The Milky Bar Kid


    I was terrible at maths..... Genuinely terrible. But, two years after finishing school I went and did a Mechanical Engineering degree. It was tough at first, but I got to B+ level by my final year. Once you get into a groove you will be flying. My advice, go for it.

    Note: There are also energy and environmental engineering degrees containing less maths, but prospects are alot higher with mechanical engineering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 999 ✭✭✭fizzypish


    OP, main issue here is you said you hated maths. I did pass maths for the leaving and got an honors degree in electronics. It can be done. I never found it incredibly hard but then again I worked at it. How about this, pick up a pass LC paper and learn how to do 2 questions. If you find after you can successfully do 2 questions that you get a bit of a buzz from the understanding of the questions and successful answering of said question, great. If not you probably do hate math and don't touch engineering or science with a barge pole. God this reminds me of trying to figure out fourier transforms..... AND I'VE FORGOTTEN NOW GRRRRRRrrrrrr....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Dermighty


    Attending maths lectures and solving problems based on the notes you take makes you better at maths.

    Maths sorts the men from the boys when it comes to engineering. As engineering gets more advanced I believe it becomes more mathematical.

    Almost any engineering course you enter will start from the ground and build up, so you don't have to worry about being Good Will Hunting off the bat!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 268 ✭✭Ging Ging


    +1Dermighty. Yes they start from the ground up so OP as long as you attend the lectures and do the course work you'll be there or there about. I found going back as a mature engineering students that I found everything much easier than my previous attempt at age 17, 10 years earlier. With a little maturity you might surprise yourself.
    I also agree with not specialising too early if possible, think of that sunscreen song.


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