Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

xflyer wrote: »

Let's clear something up, this treaty goes ahead with or without our approval. Even if we vote no we will be affected by it. So will the Brits as it happens.

If we vote no, the impact on us will be practically the same as if we voted yes. But don't expect to hear that from the government. They're going to lie and lie and lie to us. Their main interest is in maintaining our position as the prodigal boy of Europe. We were naughty but now we've learned our lesson.

If we vote yes, it will reinforce that idea that we're a cowed people prepared to accept any humiliation.

So vote no and reinforce the message sent to government after the Household Charge shambles. It will also send a message to our true masters, the German government and bankers.

The threat that if we don't vote yes, we'll be punished, is nonsense. Far from it, once they realise that we Irish have had enough of being treated like some sort of vassal state. They'll change their tune. A bit more debt forgiveness is vital for this country.

But sadly I think just enough of the Irish people will probably vote yes like all the cowards who paid their household charge.

The day will come though, what's the saying 'You can't fool all of the people all of the time'.

mishkalucy wrote: »

Watched Stephen Donnelly on Vinny tonight and he said that he reluctantly thinks there should be a "Yes" vote on the fiscal treaty. Given that he is a fairly sane individual, does his opinion on this change anyone's opinion on the fiscal treaty?

mishkalucy wrote: »

There was a lot of talk on Vinny about the "gun to head" situation, it made Leo look pretty uncomfortable. That makes me nervous

_Gawd_ wrote: »

I'm not sure if your post is accidentally directed at me when you speak about dictators etc or not (I never posted anything remotely similar) but nevertheless, I'll respond...

No my post was not aimed at you, i was drawing upon the fact that if there was a dictator in power i cant see what the difference would be. The majority will pof the people is not served, the government as usual have cosy corrupt relationships with private and corporate interests.

I'd hazard a guess to say that Joe Soap has no idea what a bailout is or what the economic consequences or moral ethical considerations of it are.

Well im paying for the bailout so i do know what the bailout is and what the consequences are if the bankng system collapse but thats not democracy. In iceland if im not mistaken they had a referendum on the banking bailout there. Thats democracy and that is not what happened here. I get the feeling you would have been against that idea her but also somehow believe in democracy? Am i right?

This comes across as a bit racist to be honest. Didn't the Irish do similar when the diaspora left these shores over how many centuries? Besides, what's wrong with it? You're never going to stop immigration and quite frankly, living in a country that only looked within would be a hell-hole.

Yes they did along with the italians and that put americans out of work cause they could just pay the poor and illiterate irish peanuts particuarlly in construction which to a lesser degree has happened the same way here with the construction black market / cash in hand jobs.

Those Polish people are providing a service - namely, their labour in exchange for money. That benefits them and you as a consumer, regardless of what industry they're involved in. They're helping your economy! The problem arises when people come to sit on the dole. Two very different things.

I work with plenty of polish and while they are all perfectly nice people, there are nice people all over the world but that does not make it a sound political and economic argument to have irish people on the dole whle there would be more jobs available if the eastern europeans did not gain access to come to countries like Ireland for work. The fact that they are working and getting paid is not a sound argument, thats just a definition of a job. Several of the polish people that i work with say they send money back to Poland. So that takes money out of our economy to benefit of Poland and all the while Irish people are on the dole cause they cant get a job which would otherwise be available if the polish had not been able to come to harvest the irish jobs market.


Now you're definitely trolling, but I'll play along...

I don't agree with "import people from Africa" as you've put it. Do you think they're inferior because of the hand they were dealt? Treat everyone as an individual - there are people from Africa in this country that are proud to own a home, have a job and pride themselves of rearing a family. At least these people have a will to succeed - some Irish people think it best to sit on the dole and do f*ck clean all. So please, look at everyone as an individual.

Nevertheless, I don't agree with sending Asylum Seekers to 5* hotels. Some of these people come from horrible environments - more often than not war-torn regions so I wouldn't be willing to sign up to send them home - but they should be allowed work here and earn their keep. This is a government problem - they created it. No point in blaming the people that avail of it.


Trolling? Racist? im so sick of that pathetic argument. Yes its a government problem but not one that Ireland created but yet we have to foot the bill?
Would it still be racist if Africa was full of white people? Im fine with whatever colour people come here as long we dont have to pay for their free houses. Thats not racist its an opinion based on a factual development. And my questions related to democracy. Was there ever referendum to decide if we should invite people from Africa and and give them free homes at the cost of the Irish tax payer ? No, Can you explain how that is democratic?

It appears that you only agree with democracy when it comes to arguments that you support. Thats not democracy it just hypocrisy.