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Blonde bull for heifers?

  • 04-03-2012 9:51pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭


    Well lads and ladies. Been thinking about ordering a few blonde straws for the bulling heifers this year. All the heifers are limousion cross and I would like to get a bit more length and growth into them. Can't go on the ai websites cause my laptop packed up and I'm using my phone but from what I remember of looking at them they are rated average enough for calving. From what I heard from people who used them they are supposed to be easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

    I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

    In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

    APX from Dovea
    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

    is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Redzer I'd be slow to use a blonde on heifers. I have a blonde bull, he's a son of oynx(dovea bull oxy I think), angus cows so far all calving by themselves to him, but tried a few fr cows with him and so far it's no fun. Only 1 in 4 calving unassisted. Yeah I know there is variation within breeds and all that. A dead calf isn't worth anything.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    Bizzum wrote: »
    easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

    I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

    In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

    APX from Dovea
    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

    is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?
    I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Redzer I'd be slow to use a blonde on heifers. I have a blonde bull, he's a son of intox (dovea bull oxy I think), angus cows so far all calving by themselves to him, but tried a few fr cows with him and so far it's no fun. Only 1 in 4 calving unassisted. Yeah I know there is variation within breeds and all that. A dead calf isn't worth anything.
    That's been drilled into me since I was a young lad blue, to quote the auld lad sure anything that lives will make money sometime :rolleyes: Still though we have had a few fair jacks with the lim and if I thought the blondes wouldn't be any worse I'd chance them. No better place to find out about them then here anyway rather than be reading the guff in the ai catalogues!!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    I think the big problem with blondes is how many days over time they go, combine that with limo and you could get a bull calf going 3 wks over. Hard to advise you though, how big/ old are the heifers? Last yr I used aubrac on all my heifers, (must put a picture up), only one calf so far, calved herself.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?


    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?ani_id=931423521

    Tyson is 5* for calving alright.

    I've used easy calving BA on Ped Ch heifers and find them light boned and easily calved. I'd have no problem using them again!

    Did ya see the Dovea Video of Kilmoney Bruce? He really looks the job!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    blue5000 wrote: »
    I think the big problem with blondes is how many days over time they go.

    Some of our BA cows know how to hang onto a calf alright. Regular enough for them to go to 300 days. As I said though, we never had problems calving them. Landais was the bull we used a lot but he's gone now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Bodacious


    Bizzum wrote: »
    easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

    I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

    In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

    APX from Dovea
    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

    is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?
    I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?

    Hi Red,

    I'd be thinking the same with alot of lim in the heifers but Blue is so right about the long gestation of the blonde combined with the 3/4 lim heifer you could be asking for bother.

    If you insist on blonde I'd have that lochhead Tyson from munster/progressive before Bruce on calving difficulty alone.

    I'd also look at Saler LZR not the easiest calved saler but a big bull with good figures and I definitely going using APZ the new simmental with munster/progressive ..v easy calved


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    blue5000 wrote: »
    I think the big problem with blondes is how many days over time they go, combine that with limo and you could get a bull calf going 3 wks over. Hard to advise you though, how big/ old are the heifers? Last yr I used aubrac on all my heifers, (must put a picture up), only one calf so far, calved herself.
    I have 5 2 year old's that i should have bulled already and probably another 7 or 8 that should be strong enough and will be 16 months mid June, heifers themselves wouldn't be over muscled apart from 2 of them and I have a few pam straws for them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10 teddd


    Kilmoney bruce looks a smashing bull. Would be more inclined in sticking to easy calved limosuin or angus bull for heifers however


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    Bodacious wrote: »
    Bizzum wrote: »
    easy enough calved but they wont be eligible for the scws if you don't use a 4 star or better for calving. Anyway any bulls that ye could recommend?

    I haven't come across this 4* or greater for calving in SCWS?

    In this case the choice will be limited, or indeed very limited!

    APX from Dovea
    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=apx&submit=Search

    is advertised as the easiest calving BA available yet has 3*?
    I'm probably raving, we used always let them off with the bull but they're his daughters!! I wouldn't be too keen on apx, I love the look of kilmoney Bruce though, nice long clean looking bull. After rooting out a few books there too and munster have a new bull lochhead Tyson and it says he is easy calved. I would have thought being that they are long clean type of cattle with light bone that they would be pretty easy calved, what's your experience of them bizzum?

    Hi Red,

    I'd be thinking the same with alot of lim in the heifers but Blue is so right about the long gestation of the blonde combined with the 3/4 lim heifer you could be asking for bother.

    If you insist on blonde I'd have that lochhead Tyson from munster/progressive before Bruce on calving difficulty alone.

    I'd also look at Saler LZR not the easiest calved saler but a big bull with good figures and I definitely going using APZ the new simmental with munster/progressive ..v easy calved
    Most of the heifers are out of sim cows already so should be ok on the maternal front. Apostle is a serious looking bull though. If I was going salers I'd go for bhu because I know the man that bred him and was often in his yard and he has serious big blocks of cows. Not really the direction I want to head in though, either lim or blonde I think but I would prefer not to put a lim back on them again.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Bizzum wrote: »
    Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

    You beat me to it Bizzum, looks like he'd be good for producing replacement heifers, but his carcase figures aren't great. Anybody on here used him?

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Poor Farmer in the hills


    also have 10 limousin x heifers for bulling. Was thinking blonde or part. any comments on part for heifers from 16 to 24 months old.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Bodacious


    Bizzum wrote: »
    Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

    when you look at bolide's linear assessment he very small heightwise, short in the back, narrow at hips etc, I used sirex although only marginally taller ( he not a giant tall either ) his SbV and all round figures seem better. Do many lads look at the linear/skeletal assessment of the sire?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Bizzum wrote: »
    Just to throw a cat amont the pidgeons: Would ya try Bolide (BZB) the Part bull from Dovea? Very easy calved.

    http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=bzb

    You beat me to it Bizzum, looks like he'd be good for producing replacement heifers, but his carcase figures aren't great. Anybody on here used him?
    The main reason I was thinking blonde is because of the length and scope that they bring, how would the parts compare to them on that front. They look to be more heavily muscled than the blondes alright...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    With heifers go with the easiest calving bull, with high reliability, you can get your hands on. Most of them in Ai will produce a decent enough calve anyway. Leave the fancy weanlings till the second year. Even if you only loose one calve it will cancel out the extra profit on the others. ;)
    Seems like a good idea now, but when you're sweating on the end of a calving jack in 9 months time, you'll be kicking yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭vanderbadger


    The main reason I was thinking blonde is because of the length and scope that they bring, how would the parts compare to them on that front. They look to be more heavily muscled than the blondes alright...

    blondes are lovely looking cattle redzer, id say they would be a nice cross with limo heifers, would love to buy a few blonde heifers in myself at some stage but its rare enough you see them down our way isnt it, part is also a nice cross with red limo


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    The main reason I was thinking blonde is because of the length and scope that they bring, how would the parts compare to them on that front. They look to be more heavily muscled than the blondes alright...

    blondes are lovely looking cattle redzer, id say they would be a nice cross with limo heifers, would love to buy a few blonde heifers in myself at some stage but its rare enough you see them down our way isnt it, part is also a nice cross with red limo
    As rare as hens teeth you'd say vander :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    pakalasa wrote: »
    With heifers go with the easiest calving bull, with high reliability, you can get your hands on. Most of them in Ai will produce a decent enough calve anyway. Leave the fancy weanlings till the second year. Even if you only loose one calve it will cancel out the extra profit on the others. ;)
    Seems like a good idea now, but when you're sweating on the end of a calving jack in 9 months time, you'll be kicking yourself.
    Im not looking to put a hard calver on them at all but like I said don't want to put a limo on them again. If the blondes were about the same as them calving wise I would prefer to use them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Fair enough. It's just that I haven't seen that many very easy calving blonde bulls in AI.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    pakalasa wrote: »
    Fair enough. It's just that I haven't seen that many very easy calving blonde bulls in AI.
    I have no experience of them either to be honest but they are meant to put great length into cattle which is what I like the most about them. I'll be gone at silage when the cows are bulling so I can't really ai them which would probably be the best thing to do. Just as a matter of interest at what calving difficulty percentage would you reckon that a bull is too hard calving for heifers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,552 ✭✭✭pakalasa


    Just as a matter of interest at what calving difficulty percentage would you reckon that a bull is too hard calving for heifers?
    I would generally look for a bull under 5%. A nice round figure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    Bodacious wrote: »
    definitely going using APZ the new simmental with munster/progressive ..v easy calved

    Hi Bod

    Are you getting that easy calving from the icbf figures or from knowledge/ experience? I've straws for him that I'm interested in using on heifers...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Bodacious


    just do it wrote: »
    Hi Bod

    Are you getting that easy calving from the icbf figures or from knowledge/ experience? I've straws for him that I'm interested in using on heifers...

    Only from munster catalogue and icbf dec2011 figures.. no experience of him personally


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Richk2012


    I bought 15 straws of Kilmoney Bruce (KCE) last year at 8Eur each from Dovea . There gone up to 10Eur now . Inseminated 4 belgian blue cows to him , no heifers . All 3rd + calvers as i thought there might be a bit of difficulty with him , considering hes a fairly shapey boy . First cow calved in october , very small bull calf . The 2nd cow had a small heifer calf 2 weeks later . Third one calved twins prematurely (disaster) :mad: , and i still have one to calf next week . All the calves came chocolate brown and white . Any heifer would have calved these 2 calves , and to tell you the truth i was a little bit dissapointed with the quality of them as drop calves , but they have come on well and are starting to shape up with age and meal , although i have a couple of Rocky Limousin (ROX) calves the same age , and out of similar blue cows and their in a different league :D .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    Richk2012 wrote: »
    I bought 15 straws of Kilmoney Bruce (KCE) last year at 8Eur each from Dovea . There gone up to 10Eur now . Inseminated 4 belgian blue cows to him , no heifers . All 3rd + calvers as i thought there might be a bit of difficulty with him , considering hes a fairly shapey boy . First cow calved in october , very small bull calf . The 2nd cow had a small heifer calf 2 weeks later . Third one calved twins prematurely (disaster) :mad: , and i still have one to calf next week . All the calves came chocolate brown and white . Any heifer would have calved these 2 calves , and to tell you the truth i was a little bit dissapointed with the quality of them as drop calves , but they have come on well and are starting to shape up with age and meal , although i have a couple of Rocky Limousin (ROX) calves the same age , and out of similar blue cows and their in a different league :D .

    I have a good few rockys in the pot and had about ten calves by him and wouldnt say hes hard calving at all. Found the calves lacked growth though. Reason I was thinking blonde was for the bit of scope. Nice to hear he is not hard calved though especially with blue cows. It seems to be hard to get a bit of thickness in a blonde but I checked up Kilmoney bruce on icbf and he did fairly well on the linear scoring.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭1chippy


    I was going to use lochhead tyson on one of the heifers a few months back and the ai man told definately not on a heifer. i think the progressive catalogue doesnt have either of the blondes in the suitable for maidens section.
    Theres a farmer over the way who runs two blondes on his herd one is an english blonde the other a french. both throwing good qualityy calves but noticed a slight inconsistency in the quality of the calves. the english bull wouldnt have as much muscle as the french one and a lot easier calved too.
    saying all that im throwing over a couple of heifers that repeated with him to get them incalf.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭Bizzum


    We would find some of our heifers getting too pure so we would use a different breed on them to throw this into the mix too.
    BA no more than Lim or Part will not be the answer to every mans prayers, but sure try a few and see how they go. We took a punt and got some lovely stock off them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,329 ✭✭✭redzerologhlen


    1chippy wrote: »
    I was going to use lochhead tyson on one of the heifers a few months back and the ai man told definately not on a heifer. i think the progressive catalogue doesnt have either of the blondes in the suitable for maidens section.
    Theres a farmer over the way who runs two blondes on his herd one is an english blonde the other a french. both throwing good qualityy calves but noticed a slight inconsistency in the quality of the calves. the english bull wouldnt have as much muscle as the french one and a lot easier calved too.
    saying all that im throwing over a couple of heifers that repeated with him to get them incalf.

    Its funny because in the book they said he was suitable for maidens but I checked him up on icbf and he has no reliability on any of his indexes. Would be slow to use him because of that. Better the devil you know!!


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