Help reading!

BigCon · 12-07-2014 1:08pm #1

Hi all,

I found where one of my ancestors was in petty court, but I can't make out the full sentence!

Here's what I can make out:

"A warrant of arrest to xxxxx for contempt of the magistrate's summons".

Can anyone make out the missing word?

Thanks.

After further research it seems that the law caught up with him! Struggling to read all of this too - any help appreciated...

traceyrogers · 12-07-2014 2:19pm

The first missing word could be 'issue'

The second text looks like:

To pay 3/- fine and 2/- costs on default of xxxxxxx to xxxxxxxxx
for 40 hrs

Will keep squinting at it for further breakthroughs!

Tracey

Mollymoo19 · 12-07-2014 2:22pm

I also saw the word 'issue'

and

on default of payment to be imprisoned for 40 (or 48?) hours

Jellybaby1 · 12-07-2014 4:25pm

I agree, you already have it worked out:

A warrant of arrest to issue for contempt of the magistrate’s summons.

To pay 3/- fine and 2/- costs, or in default of payment to be imprisoned for 48 hours.

I well remember shillings! And I have that ‘8’ written here on several records, it can be misleading but it’s a curly ‘8’.

BigCon · 24-07-2014 5:54pm

I have one more! I know it's a court decision directing that the guy be sent to Artane Industrial School but I'm finding it hard to make out the exact wording. Any ideas?

This is what I got so far:

Children's Court
Whereas James Joseph Wall who appears to the court to be a child under the age of 14 years having been born as far as can be ascertained on the 15th of April 1899 and who has been found destitute not legally being an orphan having both parents undergoing imprisonment and whereas the council of said County been given an opportunity of being heard. The court directs that the said James Joseph Wall be ?????????? to the Artane Industrial School County Dublin, the said school being a school ??????? ?? ??????????? under the ???? ????? Roman Catholic Church. The ???? detained until the 22nd of April 1915.

P. Breathnach · 24-07-2014 6:15pm

"The court directs that the said James Joseph Wall be sent to the Artane Industrial School, County Dublin, the said school being a school conducted in accordance with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, and be there detained until the twenty second of April 1915."

That's what I think, anyway.

traceyrogers · 24-07-2014 6:17pm

Has the twenty second been crossed out with fourteenth?

BigCon · 24-07-2014 6:18pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

"The court directs that the said James Joseph Wall be sent to the Artane Industrial School, County Dublin, the said school being a school conducted in accordance with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church, and be there detained until the twenty second of April 1915."

That's what I think, anyway.

Excellent, that makes sense alright. Thanks.

BigCon · 29-08-2014 3:10pm

Back again with another request.
The image below is an extract from a pension application from 1915 that references the 1851 census (before they were destroyed).
I'm trying to make out what it says (I think it says "Priest's still has not been identified as a tla")

pedroeibar1 · 29-08-2014 3:55pm

Priest's Hill. Tla could be town land?

Coolnabacky1873 · 29-08-2014 4:36pm

Yes, I would say Priest's Hill too and it's probably 'tld' as opposed to 'tla', the last 'd' in 'identified' is similar.

I had a look at the townland database on swlison.info and did not see any townlands of that name; plenty that start with Priest (e.g. Priest Town, Priest's Island), but none with Hill. It could be a Sub-denominational, a name for a part of a townland or a local place name not recorded on official maps.

BigCon · 29-08-2014 5:38pm

Thanks lads, it turns out that it is most likely Priest's Hill alright as the area in question is Collon in Co. Louth. Although there is no townsland of Priests Hill (or no mention on Google maps), it does appear on Bing maps and a google search gives lots of references to it.
Gas how one word (Hill instead of Still) changes things...

BigCon · 06-09-2014 4:55pm

Here we go again! I had a look at the parish register of one of my ancestors to make sure it matched the transcript on roots Ireland.
The printed transcript says that the sponsors names were Patt Barron and Margt Jennet, however the handwritten record is hard to read.
What do ye think?

shanew · 06-09-2014 5:31pm

I can see where the person who transcribed than got those names. Barron and Margt. are ok, the other two words are more difficult,

The P for Patrick is ok, and the 'a' looks split in half, there seems to be two 't's, the first missing the crossbar, and the second followed by a subscript r ?

The double 'r's in the last word are the same type of strokes as the ones in Barron. The second letter might be an 'a' rather than 'e', and J as the first letter is certainly possible or maybe 'G' ? The original transcriber probably worked the J out by comparing to other sightly clearer instances from other examples on the page.

Pretzill · 06-09-2014 5:59pm

To me Margt. Guinet but the Patt looks like Patrick except the end does look like a th rather than a ck.

(Newbie here btw - delighted to find this forum on boards I'm knee deep in research at the moment - so expect questions soon)

P.

Jellybaby1 · 06-09-2014 9:25pm

Looks similar to Guinness!

KildareFan · 06-09-2014 9:57pm

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Looks similar to Guinness!

Looks like Guinness to me, but could be Guerin?

Pretzill · 06-09-2014 10:01pm

Looking again could be Patk as in shortened form for Patrick but Margarets second name could begin wuth a g or j and the transcribed surname could be another spelling of the French name.

Jellybaby1 · 07-09-2014 12:44am

First name could be Patk, short for Patrick, often write it myself too. I think we'd need to see more example of the handwriting though just to compare the strokes. Any more information on the record, date, parish, we could cross check Familysearch / Ancestry / Census / Findmypast maybe?

CeannRua · 09-09-2014 9:06pm

BigCon wrote: »

Here we go again! I had a look at the parish register of one of my ancestors to make sure it matched the transcript on roots Ireland.
The printed transcript says that the sponsors names were Patt Barron and Margt Jennet, however the handwritten record is hard to read.
What do ye think?

Pattk for Patrick, the k being superscript.

The surname might be something like Guinn or Quinn, or maybe something like Gunne. Would anything like this be likely for your family or the locality? Not sure if the letter that looks like a 't' at the end is part of the word or a squiggle the priest used to denote the end of the entry. Could you post some more entries for comparison, particularly end of records and anything that starts with g or q?

Hermy · 10-09-2014 12:06am

CeannRua wrote: »

The surname might be something like Guinn or Quinn, or maybe something like Gunne.

Guinan perhaps?

CeannRua · 10-09-2014 7:14am

Forgot to ask, OP, have you contacted the genealogy centre that transcribed this? It doesn't look like Jennet as there are too many pen strokes. It's an unusual name for them to choose as it doesn't seem the most common.

BigCon · 10-09-2014 6:13pm

Thanks for all the help. The only record I had was rootsireland, who listed it as Jennings. I went to the national library and this is from the parish registry. Here's the original image I took:

KildareFan · 10-09-2014 6:46pm

Gosh - wonder where they learned to write.

The first letter of the surname looks like the first letter of the name in the first line under April 57 - but I'm struggling to interpret it.

Looking at other capital letters in the image, it doesn't look like A, B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, M, P, R, S, T...

The first letter is not J if you look at the James & it's not G if you look at George under May 57

That leaves H, I, L, N, O, Q, U, V, X, Y....

Will have to get back to it.

CeannRua · 10-09-2014 9:03pm

That priest was scratching the page rather than writing. I think KildareFan has a point about the line under April 57. I think it might say something akin to Mary Devine of Rich??? or Nich? and Jane Levins but this should be easy to check on RootsIreland when you know the date and parish. If you can figure out the first letter, the last letter of the mystery surname looks to be 't' so maybe then do wildcard searches for the surname in the relevant area using Griffith's Valuation, if this is feasible, as the date of Griffith's is close to the baptism date.
The sponsor's name for the first baptism under April 57 looks very similar to the mystery surname.

Jellybaby1 · 11-09-2014 12:10am

What a quiz you have given us.

He was either a very careless priest, or a very dyslexic priest. This is what I have got from it so far but still not the name you want unfortunately. In my own experience with parish records I have found the same names keep appearing so if it was me I would look through the whole book and you may find other instances of the name which might appear clearer.

The first letter of the surname you are looking for also appears as the very first letter on the top left hand corner of the page above April 57. I still can’t make it out though.

8th Mary Levine (or Devine) of Michael (or Richard) & ? Levine (or Devine)
14 Bridget Carberry of Michael & Mary Monaghan
Pattk Monaghan to Bridy Sheil
15th Thomas Moore of Michael & Mary Barron
Pattk Barron to Mary ?
24 Rose Downey of James & Catherine McKeown
Matthew Downey & Ellen Tiernan

Help reading!

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