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A career in Information Technology?

2

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    Must say that building/repairing PCs does not appeal to me at all

    Funnily enough building PCs is quite a different discipline to repairing them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35 Brion


    More alluding to my lack of dexterity when it comes to things like that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Graham wrote: »
    Like many careers, IT isn't a tough career if it's one you've chosen out of a genuine interest for the subject. If people are doing it because 'it's a good career' then they will probably find it harder.

    Unfortunately, many now fall into the latter group. Where people used to be told to get a job in the civil service, or work for a bank, they're now being directed towards IT.
    Yes and No.

    Have you been thru many recessions? Technology changes? How many projects have your worked on that have just been out sourced to India?

    When I started in this industry I thought certain things would never happen and they did. You don't have to work in IT if you like it. One of the best people I have ever worked with couldn't hack the stress of it and burnt out and went back to become a physio. He still programs as a hobbie and sets up his own networks etc.
    He was super passionate and absolutely loved IT has been programming since he was 7 / 8 but just couldn't hack the stress of working in it - crap code, high pressure deadlines, little job security etc.

    Other people I know who are not that good can hack the stress of it no problem. They don't care if they are looking at crap code.

    IT's a very hard one to advice on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,977 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    Some of the best people I have worked with just did one year conversion courses. The thing with IT is normal rules just don't apply.

    The number one thing I'd say about IT is that it is a tough tough career. One of the best people I have ever worked with super genius couldn't hack it and burnt out and went for a career change. Now immediately you'd think why did he burn out.

    Well Software entropy happens in every project - complexity goes way up usually because of crap code, bad designs and poor architecture. But you still have deadlines. This means you spend more and more time late at night debugging crap code to try and get something working and make your deadlines.

    This happens on every project and it frustrates the sh*t out of people. It is also something that no university in the world prepares you for.

    I have been in this industry 16 years and made it thru two down turns. 2001 - 2004 and 2009. I expect another big downturn around 2016. Why?

    The 2009 downturn was not that bad as a lot of people stayed away from IT after the 2001 - 2004 .dot com bubble crashed. This meant there were not as many victims in 2009. However, now the government have decided to throw a load of people in IT again.

    So expect a bigger fallout in 2016.

    I think your right when you say a fallout is coming but I believe only certain areas in IT will be affected. There is going to be a glut of people like project managers, scrum masters, IT business analysts etc in the years to come. They are the easiest roles to transition into from other careers, usually only a general business degree and a vague technical understanding is enough. Getting into and becoming a good software developer is immensely more difficult. I see it myself right now in my company where anyone who isn't a developer is just sitting there with blank expressions during planning meetings, everything has to be dumbed right down so the planners can "make the decisions".


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    I think your right when you say a fallout is coming but I believe only certain areas in IT will be affected. There is going to be a glut of people like project managers, scrum masters, IT business analysts etc in the years to come.
    PM / Scrum masters - tonnes of them
    They are the easiest roles to transition into from other careers, usually only a general business degree and a vague technical understanding is enough.
    Getting into and becoming a good software developer is immensely more difficult.
    +1.
    I see it myself right now in my company where anyone who isn't a developer is just sitting there with blank expressions during planning meetings, everything has to be dumbed right down so the planners can "make the decisions".
    Know that one.

    I worked in a large multi national and there was a huge clear out of management.
    Some of them found it hard to get jobs, others got much better jobs.

    At the end of the day IT is the raw edge of capitalism. There are no protections.
    You compete with India and the bloke 15 years younger than you.

    And here's the key point. It really doesn't matter if you had 25 years experience. The stuff you did a long time ago is way out of date.

    After 5 years - everyone is even.

    So, once you hit about 28 (I am 37 now) there is very little career progression.
    If a 28 year old is very good, he is just as good as a 47 year old is very good.

    The challenge is once you hit that five years is to make sure you don't fall behind the lads who are good and hit their five years.

    Otherwise you are goosed and the 28 year old will get a senior role in another company before you.

    The older people get the harder they find it to find time to keep skills up to date. This is when the burnout kicks in.

    I find is if you put a lot of effort into keeping skills up to date you will learn things much quicker. For example if you two java programmers and one also was very good javascript and python that one would pick Scala way quicker. If you are always learning nothing is a big step instead you have tonnes of small steps.

    Whereas if you coast along - then you will eventually get a massive step.

    From 2001 - 2006 it was really about how good at Java you were. Failing that how could at .net you were. Now, at senior level I would expect someone to have mastered a few things. Java, JavaScript, Groovey....

    And I would expect a really sh*t hot person to have mastered at least 5.

    Then when confronted with problems they can switch and pick different tools and overall get things done much quicker.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,329 ✭✭✭✭starlit


    IT is very broad really but similar but different to computer science but cover similar subjects but the detail of study and what you learn might vary.

    Loads of conversion courses available if you haven't an IT background already of some sort. Then maybe complete some certs or do an online course to brush up on things you might learn in college like programming you kind of need to keep tabs of what you are learning as the learning never really stops when it comes to IT.

    In terms of maths I would say going down the Java, cloud or Business Analysis/systems analysis route might be an option for you. If you are good with numbers maybe databases might be something to get into.

    I agree with a lot of what posters have already said Op but all depends what career path you want to follow. For me I did a business and IT something onto BIS as a degree and did a hdip in computing. I feel what I did was so broad and not specific in anything that has made it harder for me to decide on a career path in IT which is what I want to follow or have a bit of business in it too.

    Just hard to strike a balance. I have followed many different types of potential careers but nothing has fallen through for me career wise so still at crossroads what career to go with. I love anything to do with IT. I am even brushing up on my coding skills at the moment and doing a bit of freelance in social media/advertising ads for web/social media. I've probably covered a fast range of subjects but only really hit the surface.

    There is wide variety of programming languages you might be good at some and not others and depends how easily you pick them up and understand them. Some people have learnt to programme at a young age like doing projects outside of college or even done it before starting college as part of their free time. Some just have a natural flare for it others takes time to get to grips with it.

    There are web programming languages which I do quiet well in - php, ruby , javascript, html and css. Software development type ones like VB is ok but java is very difficult. Then you've databases/cloud type ones - SQL. You've python and perl. In terms of Networking its just codes/commands really. You've the operating systems ones then mainly codes/commands like for unix/linux. Windows be kind of a step by step kind of commands while linux/unix its one line or few words. You've scripting commands too which be similar to operating system and software development commands like you've scripting in photoshop/flash for multimedia/interactive media type things and you've actionscript that apply to flash.

    You've learnt one you learnt them all, principles are the same just the codes are presented differently. Though some people are better at certain types of code over others and that is grand some just are brilliant at all of them and others not really. Sometimes like you just have a knack for it or not. Requires a lot of hard work if you find coding difficult. Takes time to get it right and a lot of patience! I think if you can understand and debug and know where you are making mistakes then it helps to learn it. I find that if you can type code without the books/notes you be doing very well but recalling from memory can be good and bad. Grand for a computer exam but not great when writing it on paper.

    Its a good idea to keep on top of what you learn in college as new technology, coding methods and other gadgets will change over time and keep updating itself so its wise to keep updating your skills too!

    You've technical support then but as you say you have little interest in repairing pc's and so on so best not to go down that path. Is there any other area you be interested in as IT is so varied you could pursue most areas from scratch!?

    Career progression can vary all depends on what work experience you gain in the future and what job you be in.

    Research thoroughly before investing in an IT course as modules and what's covered can vary. Try not to go for something too broad but not too specific either just in between.

    I was just lucky I had some stuff covered in my degree that I learnt again in my hdip but I learnt new subjects as well which helped compliment and learn something new in the process but only thing is that added to it was that I learnt more programming languages in the hdip than in my degree while my degree focused more on business, business management, IS, multimedia and business admin type subjects rather than IT though it did cover some aspects of IT but not in enough detail as I would have liked had I gone for a more mainstream BIS course as they probably would have had a more even balance between IT and business than the course I did which tended to focus on business more than IT yet having IT subjects but not enough and not enough detail.

    Just giving you my take on it OP! As I always say go with your gut feeling not just what your head is telling you. If in any doubt about a course don't do it but if you very confident about doing a particular course go for it! Its a risk but its better to try than not try at all and you be wondering what if!
    Best of luck with your decision!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,969 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    As we have already touched on, IT is so vast that its not just at looking at crap code, but looking at very weirdly configured networks, very strange security policies, and just ridiculous ways of doing things. I can fully understand how someone who took to IT from an early age burnt out by having to cope with systems where planning or logic weren't applied.

    An example from my own life, I recently came across a network that was using public IP addresses as LAN IPs. They were sat behind a router, but they were publicly routable over the internet. When i queried it, I got a shrug and a "Thats just the way it is". No wonder we have run out of IP addresses. Theres about 200 here when only 1 is needed.

    I am sure everyone here could relate a story where completely the wrong solution was applied to a problem. I know some people who have little or no interest in IT, who come in, do their job and leave at 5 o'clock. They don't get stressed because they don't care. In many ways I envy them. I bet they sleep better than I do too. I think anyone who says IT is an easy career doesn't care about it too much. How can you be so invested in something and at the same time find it so easy? The world of business has moved on as well and I am not sure if all the innovation have been for the benefit of the worker. Not very long ago when you hit a certain level you would have had an assistant, or even a secretary to do all the menial jobs related to your work, now you are given a laptop and a phone. I have on occasion spent a day on stupid paper work when I could easily have been doing productive even valuable things. I think if I was starting over, I would look more closely at other possible careers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    syklops wrote: »
    How can you be so invested in something and at the same time find it so easy?

    Thats precisely why, I ****ing love this stuff, I'd do it for free. Its just a bonus there are people who pay me a lot of money to do it....

    There are so many people here moaning about how tough IT is. If you really feel this way, why on earth are you in the industry?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    syklops wrote: »
    I would look more closely at other possible careers.

    So would I. I would learn a language like python and use for hobbie stuff and then try to get into something more mathematical for a career and leave the IT stuff as a hobbie.

    Great story about the public ip's btw.

    I am currently working on a project where half the code has no unit tests and to develop this way is fine. Eventually software entropy will kick in and this project will become a nightmare.

    The last place I worked in one or two of the very senior technical people there never sorted out threading problems properly and kept patching a flawed design. It was an utter nightmare. No PM realised how complicated it had got and when you were asked to do some work in that area it was impossible to predict how long it would take.

    I have never ever ever worked on a project that didn't turn into a nightmare.
    There are many reasons for this - people in "architect" roles who weren't good enough, mgrs who weren't technical enough, people who had minimum coding skills, unrealistic deadlines - you name it I have seen it all expect one thing a project that doesn't become a nightmare.

    There are too many things required in a complex software project to make it run smoothly and they never all happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe



    There are too many things required in a complex software project to make it run smoothly and they never all happen.

    Which is exactly why those of us in this game a reasonable amount of time. Smile at the PM when she is close to pulling her hair out about all the problems. "Grand, situation normal in software development then... right whats the next JIRA ticket, but first coffee and fag".

    Folks its no different in any other industry tbh.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    Sometimes I think IT (software consulting/development in my particular case) is extremely tough and frustrating. You have to deal with lots of deadlines, ever shifting goals and requirements, trying to balance resources between different projects, balance between developing new stuff and getting caught hunting bugs in old stuff, dealing with nonsensical code (admittedly some of it self written :)), angry customers who have figured out that complaining a lot gets them free stuff, stupid people insisting on stupid stuff, meetings about meetings to form a committee to plan the letterhead to be used for meeting invites and so on and so on.

    Then other times I look out the window at the cold and wind and rain and can't believe how lucky I am to be paid to sit on my nice comfy seat in my nice warm and dry office. Sometimes I get to research new technologies and be right on the bleeding edge. Sometimes I get confronted with some technology problem that can only be solved with a stroke of genius so beautiful and elegant it brings a tear to my eye. Sometimes I get brought on to a project that's in trouble and through some unique skill I possess I get to save it from failing and get to be the hero (for a few hours at least :)). Sometimes a customer will write a thank you email to your boss about how great a job you did, how well a system works, and how much time and money you saved them.

    And then another time I will be stuck in a meeting room, looking out at the builders on a roof across the road, it might be cold and wet but at least the air is fresh. They might be tired at the end of the day from carry bits and pieces and using tools and machinery, but I bet there's a certain satisfaction to knowing they built something new that day, something more constructive than a projects risk list. And I bet those sandwiches taste pretty good when you're sitting on the edge of a building looking out at the mountains.

    And so the cycle continues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    And here's the key point. It really doesn't matter if you had 25 years experience. The stuff you did a long time ago is way out of date.

    Thats such a naive and blinkered view to be honest. While it might be the case regarding the technical details of the work, thats only a part of the overall job. 25 years experience lets you look at a situation,understand and anticipate the problems far better than some young fella.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Thats such a naive and blinkered view to be honest. While it might be the case regarding the technical details of the work, thats only a part of the overall job. 25 years experience lets you look at a situation,understand and anticipate the problems far better than some young fella.
    Yes and No. I commend your ability to deal with stress sincerely however it is unusual that people have that attitude.

    If you look at the top people James Gosling, Rich Hickey etc and listen to them talk they get their drive by absolutely hating something so much that are compelled to innovate a completely new approach.

    There is a very common pattern in software of complexity driving people mad, a new approach to minimize complexity and then more complexity.

    Examples:
    * Memory leaks driving C++ programmers demented - enter Java.
    * Mutable state, code bloat driving Java heads mad - Enter Ruby, Scala, Groovey
    * Distributed Garbage collection and distributed state, lack of vendor portabillity in Corba enter web services
    * Clunky specs in WS and distributed state enter REST
    * Millions of different ways of doing diagrams enter UML
    * JavaScript is too complicated - GWT
    * O/R mapping - hibernate JPA

    If these problems didn't drive people mad, the innovations would never have happened. There are only two technologies I can think that haven't driven people completely mad.

    1. Relational databases (and that's debatable suffice to say they have been around 40+ years)
    2. HTTP

    So the industry is unique in that it has many things that drive people mad.
    How you react to it is I suppose personal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    So the industry is unique in that it has many things that drive people mad.
    How you react to it is I suppose personal.

    Thats the whole point though, its the same as any other industry. These are all universal truths, regardless of domain.

    Edited to add: It may just appear to be a different situation considering our industry is in its infancy in comparison to other engineering disciplines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Thats the whole point though, its the same as any other industry. These are all universal truths, regardless of domain.

    Edited to add: It may just appear to be a different situation considering our industry is in its infancy in comparison to other engineering disciplines.

    I don't think so. In Civil Engineering things move much slower. Even if you are a GP the amount you have to learn every year is way less.

    Nothing moves as fast as IT.

    It can place unreasonable head demands on people. I don't think there is anything that compare to be thrown onto a new project, looking at old code with no documenation, no unit tests, no higher level abstractions, obvious signs that person who coded it was not an expert level and be told to just add something and given a deadline.

    You can be the worlds best programmer but you are staring at some thread, wondering why the hell it was done a certain way. Johnny the developer who did has left the company and no-one else knows. There's only one or two people who have a good knowledge of the code base and they are too busy to sit down and give you a coherent answer.

    So you look at it painfully and expected to do your job because hey you're a java expert who knows design patterns inside out and did a great interview.

    That is a regular occurence in the s/w industry and I cannot for the life of me think of something comparable in any other industry.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    I don't think so. In Civil Engineering things move much slower. Even if you are a GP the amount you have to learn every year is way less.

    Nothing moves as fast as IT.

    It can place unreasonable head demands on people.
    It can depend very much on role as well. If you go into a bank you'll find people who have been working on Cobol, AS/400s and DB2 for the last 20 years or so :). That's an extreme case, but there's lots of people who would be coders working in cubicle farms who would be churning out code in the same language with the same frameworks/toolchains year after year, often working on the developing the same product or small group of products.

    In my role, and I guess it's similar in yours as well, I'd constantly be working on new projects often with new technologies (often beta or pre-release) so there's a fairly steep learning curve. It's personally something I love, it is tough and doesn't suit everybody, but like with ChRoMe it's something I'd do in my spare time for free so it makes an ideal career for me.

    It's actually something I'd posted about in the "Frustrated dev job" recently: link


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    stevenmu wrote: »
    In my role, and I guess it's similar in yours as well, I'd constantly be working on new projects often with new technologies (often beta or pre-release) so there's a fairly steep learning curve. It's personally something I love, it is tough and doesn't suit everybody, but like with ChRoMe it's something I'd do in my spare time for free so it makes an ideal career for me.
    New projects without legacy code - no unfortunately I don't see much green field would love to thou :-)

    I research a lot of technologies in my own time and been published on some fairly reputable sites but it's difficult getting that time when you have kids. The last few months I have been doing it a lot from 10.00 pm on Friday evening to 2.00 am in the morning. Because it is the only time I get.

    You can love something a lot but there are practicalities as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    tony81 wrote: »
    Accountants are expected to do 40 hours of cpd a year. Accounting, audit, tax and compliance regulations change, and new systems can be introduced.

    In IT, realistically, you'd be looking at doing that many days of CPD to stay at the top of the game, if not more.

    But it gets worse, because most companies don't regard CPD as being a valid use of your time - so you're expected to do this in your free time or worse:
    Worse yet, in several of the places I worked in in the last few years, asking for CPD support would have been a black mark against you; it would have been seen as an admission of incompetence and nothing more. The attitude was, effectively, that you should have learnt everything in college, and now it was time to stop with the time-wasting of learning and get on with billable hours. CPD was something you did at home and didn’t mention at work. Supporting CPD in those places was seen as the company spending money to improve the employees’ CVs so they could flee elsewhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,014 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Brion wrote: »
    Hi guys,

    Mature student here (early 30s) with a degree in business but looking for a change since nothing has really come up in this area for me. I've had a number of people suggesting to me to do something in IT but I always respond with 'like what/there's quite a lot under the IT umbrella/etc'. It's not that easy to go 'yeah, sure, let's go'.

    So for a person who needs to brush up on their mathematical studies, what's a good way of approaching this? What can I do beforehand to see if this is really for me/if I can do this? And also, suggestions as to some areas that would be best focused on?

    Thanks.

    I made the huge error of entering a computing course in D.I.T 4 years ago. I absolutely hated every aspect of the experience and left after two years, achieving a worthless Level 6 Higher cert by the skin of my teeth. As stated in previous posts on this thread, do not enter this field purely for economic/employment reasons like I did. You will not last, trust me. Programming in particular is an acquired taste to put it mildly. Like alot of skills it is not something you can become proficient at without some passion or interest in it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Sparks wrote: »
    In IT, realistically, you'd be looking at doing that many days of CPD to stay at the top of the game, if not more.

    But it gets worse, because most companies don't regard CPD as being a valid use of your time - so you're expected to do this in your free time or worse:

    Thats really strange, any company I've been in has had an active interest in employee training (its something I ask in every interview). The standard deal anywhere has been that if you leave within 6 months of your training you are liable for the cost to the company of the training. Works great for all parties concerned.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Thats precisely why, I ****ing love this stuff, I'd do it for free. Its just a bonus there are people who pay me a lot of money to do it....
    There are so many people here moaning about how tough IT is. If you really feel this way, why on earth are you in the industry?
    Oddly, because I love this stuff. But Tim's still right.

    I used to think the way you think, back when I started - and before I had a family to look out for. At a certain point, the continual churn and the masochistic work practices just become unsupportable and you start to wonder why the hell you should be in the office on your own at 2200h grinding on a fix for badly broken code whose design you protested from day one without being listened to despite having far more experience than the "architect" who designed it - while your boss is at home with his kids having fun.

    Not all bosses or workplaces are like that - some are worse, some are far, far better and a lot of the time it comes down to the people rather than anything more systemic.

    But honestly, what Tim's saying and what you're saying both sound familliar to me - just to me at different ages. And I'd bet Tim could remember thinking like you back when he started.

    Then again, you could be John Caramack and you might just be burnout-proof.... it's just rather unlikely, statistically speaking :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Thats really strange, any company I've been in has had an active interest in employee training (its something I ask in every interview). The standard deal anywhere has been that if you leave within 6 months of your training you are liable for the cost to the company of the training. Works great for all parties concerned.

    You've been a lot more fortunate than I have been.
    But that in itself says a lot - I was hardly digging about looking for companies run by people with eyepatches and criminal records. And CPD shouldn't be the sort of thing that you should be "fortunate" to get - it should be like salary, a basic part of the renumeration package.

    Thing is, it just isn't.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    There do seem to be a lot of people who try to run software development like a production line, and have trouble grasping that you can't just have X number of developers producing Y number of widgets in Z hours.

    I've wondered a bit lately how more creative type industries manage their workflow. I think it would be interesting to get somebody who manages artistic types like graphic designers or advertising creatives etc and see what they would do with a software development team. It would be interesting to see how they would approach it, or if they run into the same problems we do. I know that they tend to charge customers on a 'billable hours' basis, similar to the way IT consultants do (I actually worked on some software to handle that :)), but I'd like to see how they manage the teams internally.

    Maybe I need to watch Mad Men :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Sparks wrote: »
    You've been a lot more fortunate than I have been.
    But that in itself says a lot - I was hardly digging about looking for companies run by people with eyepatches and criminal records. And CPD shouldn't be the sort of thing that you should be "fortunate" to get - it should be like salary, a basic part of the renumeration package.

    Thing is, it just isn't.

    Also if 30 percent of our Dail were ex IT heads instead of ex teachers we might see something radical and practical such as a paid week off every second year to do another IT cert, we might see something like a CTO advising cabinet on how best to help techies. But we are goosed.

    When you have a young family this is a sh*t career.

    Unless you have the political head for mgt or you have been in the same place > 5 years you have proved yourself and you know the code base.

    Another thing I find very stressful about this industry is when you change jobs you have to prove yourself all over again.

    When you are in a place for a while you get a reputation "ah your man is deadly at SQL, architectural patterns but crap at CSS and dynamically type languages".
    No-one is deadly at everything. But people know what you are good at.

    When you go to a new place you have to prove yourself all over again. This can take a long while.

    All those times you saves projects before count for nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Sparks wrote: »

    Then again, you could be John Caramack and you might just be burnout-proof.... it's just rather unlikely, statistically speaking :P

    Not even close, I just take steps to ensure that doesn't happen. I can count on one hand the amount of times I have stayed late in the office in the last 4 years .

    I just don't it, I value getting home and having dinner with my wife too much (well erm that and playing League Of Legends ;) ) So all of this "**** career when you have a young family" is quite frankly b0llocks all it does is demonstrate you don't know how to manage your work load. Or you are in a company that demands such practices, which if you are, its time to polish that CV.

    FWIW, I'm in my 30s and have been in this industry since I was 17, so dont attempt to attach to much of the wide eyed innocence thing to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Not even close, I just take steps to ensure that doesn't happen. I can count on one hand the amount of times I have stayed late in the office in the last 4 years .

    I just don't it, I value getting home and having dinner with my wife too much (well erm that and playing League Of Legends ;) )

    Do you have kids? And do you never get worried your skills might be going out of date? Or are you just laid back person? And how many times have you been in a company / project where they decided to just cherry pick who they would let go?

    I worked on a project once where there were 6 of us all very strong and we were told one was going to be let go. I spent the next two weeks absolutely sh*tting it. And when I wasn't let go I felt bloody awful for the lad who was let go - who was absolutely super.

    Pretty friggin stressful and a situation I expect to happen several times again. I subsequently found out the company was making money at the time but just decided to do it to make more money.

    Another time I worked on a big project with a bunch of people and we were all told one day right your project is moving location. You have three months to find new schools for your kids and if you don't we have no guarantee of work for you.

    Now someone can tell me how cool design patterns and software architecture is and I'll agree with you but when it comes to the practicalities of a career, I.T. absolutely sucks.

    As I said it has the hard edge of capitalism that no other "career" has.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    Do you have kids? And do you never get worried your skills might be going out of date? Or are you just laid back person?

    One on the way :)

    I dont worry about my skills stagnating as I work with an exceptional architect who has enough trust in me to allow me to go and get stuck into new technologies so we can leverage them.

    I dont worry at all if I was going to be made redundant. I get 5-10 contacts from recruiters a week asking me if I'm happy in my current position. My boss knows this and acts accordingly ;)

    I've been in central London for about 5 years at this stage, I dont know if being back at home in Dublin would change this attitude.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    There's only one way your skills can get out of date. You stop updating them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe



    As I said it has the hard edge of capitalism that no other "career" has.

    Again back to this, I cant fathom how you are assigning these negative attributes to only IT. We are not unique snowflakes in this business!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Graham wrote: »
    There's only one way your skills can get out of date. You stop updating them.
    No, the company you work can be conservative and be new technology adverse.
    Chrome - thanks for answering my questions can you answer the other ones?

    And how many times have you been in a company / project where they decided to just cherry pick who they would let go?

    And another one - how many hours a week do you spend outside work keeping skills up to date?


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