Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Mountainlad · 25-09-2012 11:27am

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Strong possibility now it looks like Ballinacourty to win a poor western competition and correct me if I'm wrong but Courty cant go up even if they win the county as they are a 2nd string team. So that would mean DLS promoted?

Ballinacourty can go up if they want to and have 2 Senior teams. If they win it twice in a row they have to go up.

I dunnno what would happen if they elected not to go up having won it, maybe a playoff between the east champions and the beaten Western finalists? Would probably be a bit unfair if De La Salle went up at the expense of Ballinameela in the situation, without having played each other.

hardybuck · 25-09-2012 11:37am

Mountainlad wrote: »

Ballinacourty can go up if they want to and have 2 Senior teams. If they win it twice in a row they have to go up.

I dunnno what would happen if they elected not to go up having won it, maybe a playoff between the east champions and the beaten Western finalists? Would probably be a bit unfair if De La Salle went up at the expense of Ballinameela in the situation, without having played each other.

Ballinameela are surely good enough to beat Ballinacourty's second string though?

Mountainlad · 25-09-2012 11:40am

hardybuck wrote: »

Ballinameela are surely good enough to beat Ballinacourty's second string though?

Well, they lost when they met in the group stages. They had a few fellas gone abroad over the summer, not sure if any/all are back. Ballinacourty are the form team in the West Intermediate championship.

hardybuck · 25-09-2012 11:48am

Mountainlad wrote: »

Well, they lost when they met in the group stages. They had a few fellas gone abroad over the summer, not sure if any/all are back. Ballinacourty are the form team in the West Intermediate championship.

I think if you can't beat a senior club's second string, you've no business playing senior championship. I expect between now and that group game that Ballinacourty might have lost the odd player to the senior team also.

cheater · 25-09-2012 12:41pm

Has there been any announcement of dates for the Nire v Kilrossanty replay, and subsequently the SFC semi finals? I believe the announcement in Fraher field was that there would be a meeting on Monday night to decide these?

Anyone hear anything?

deisebhoy17 · 25-09-2012 12:58pm

hardybuck wrote: »

I think if you can't beat a senior club's second string, you've no business playing senior championship. I expect between now and that group game that Ballinacourty might have lost the odd player to the senior team also.

Ballinacourty have been steam-rolling their way through the western intermediate championship. Make what you want of it, whether its a reflection of how poor the standard is, thats another debate. The bottom line is they are there on merit, and I can guarantee they would be as good as some of the lower senior teams aswell. Ballinameela will fancy it aswell though, having been senior before they have plenty experience. Courty wont lose anyone of significance to the Seniors so its a question of whether Ballinameela can get it together in time with these lads that have been away for the summer

PTH2009 · 25-09-2012 1:12pm

So if Ballinacourty win the western intermediate football will De La Salle go straight up to senoir in 2013 because Ballinacourty are in the senoir rankings all ready or will De La Salle have to still play Ballinameena in a playoff even if Ballinameena lose the western final. ??

comeraghs · 25-09-2012 2:00pm

Bit harsh to be calling West Inter football a poor champiosnship.

Great credit should go to small clubs with very limited populations such as Ballinameela, Geraldines, Modeligo, Kilgobinet, Old Parish & Colligan for fielding teams, never mind competing. Abbeyside/Ballinacourty has a bigger population than all these clubs put together.

Mountainlad · 25-09-2012 3:08pm

comeraghs wrote: »

Bit harsh to be calling West Inter football a poor champiosnship.

Great credit should go to small clubs with very limited populations such as Ballinameela, Geraldines, Modeligo, Kilgobinet, Old Parish & Colligan for fielding teams, never mind competing. Abbeyside/Ballinacourty has a bigger population than all these clubs put together.

None of them are intemediate football teams. And are Colligan relegated now actually?

The Nire have a limited population, and they have a second string side competing with these teams, which doesn't say a lot for them (and I'm not trying to run any clubs down, in my opinion some of these teams are just unsustainably small). The standard is still quite poor, but then I guess it's to be expected with the number of football clubs and that hurling definitely gets precedance over it in this county.

But lads, it's totally unfair to specifically mention that the West championship is a poor championship when it's still better than the East!

The big issues lie over there where most of the population of the County is, and yet so few players are being produced for the County Senior team. Only one team of the 8 quarter finalists were from the East, and Rathgormack are borderline East as they are quite near the Nire and Killrossanty. If people are serious about football in the County, they need to get it taken seriously by more over there, otherwise we can forget about it.

hardybuck · 25-09-2012 3:51pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

None of them are intemediate football teams. And are Colligan relegated now actually?

The Nire have a limited population, and they have a second string side competing with these teams, which doesn't say a lot for them (and I'm not trying to run any clubs down, in my opinion some of these teams are just unsustainably small). The standard is still quite poor, but then I guess it's to be expected with the number of football clubs and that hurling definitely gets precedance over it in this county.

But lads, it's totally unfair to specifically mention that the West championship is a poor championship when it's still better than the East!

The big issues lie over there where most of the population of the County is, and yet so few players are being produced for the County Senior team. Only one team of the 8 quarter finalists were from the East, and Rathgormack are borderline East as they are quite near the Nire and Killrossanty. If people are serious about football in the County, they need to get it taken seriously by more over there, otherwise we can forget about it.

The City is the issue here. Not only do the clubs need to take it more seriously in the there, but there need to be supports put in place to help them. There is a huge portion of people in the city who despise the game, it's a hurling and soccer town.

If you look at the Waterford senior hurling team, the only guys who don't tog out for football with their clubs are probably from Mount Sion, DLS and Ballygunner. DLS in particular would probably be challenging on both fronts like The Nire and Ballinacourty if they gave both a good bash.

deisebhoy17 · 25-09-2012 6:13pm

hardybuck wrote: »

The City is the issue here. Not only do the clubs need to take it more seriously in the there, but there need to be supports put in place to help them. There is a huge portion of people in the city who despise the game, it's a hurling and soccer town.

If you look at the Waterford senior hurling team, the only guys who don't tog out for football with their clubs are probably from Mount Sion, DLS and Ballygunner. DLS in particular would probably be challenging on both fronts like The Nire and Ballinacourty if they gave both a good bash.

wouldnt necessarily agree with that argument. The far west of the county dont do much for the game either. Places like tallow lismore, ballyduff, tourin and these places. wont see many of their county players playing football either. a bit unfair to say that its just the city that is holding football back the problem is way more widespread than that

Mountainlad · 25-09-2012 6:17pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

wouldnt necessarily agree with that argumentr. The far west of the county dont do much for the game either. Places like tallow lismore, ballyduff, tourin and these places. wont see many of their co. players playing football either. a bit unfair to say that its just the city fold that hold football back in this co. the problem is widespread

You sure? Who do Tourin play football for, Affane? Even Dan plays football for Lismore, but I'd agree if your saying the general attitude in the case of Lismore and Tallow is they don't take it as seriously as the hurling, but I do think their players tog out for it.

deisebhoy17 · 25-09-2012 10:46pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

You sure? Who do Tourin play football for, Affane? Even Dan plays football for Lismore, but I'd agree if your saying the general attitude in the case of Lismore and Tallow is they don't take it as seriously as the hurling, but I do think their players tog out for it.

Tourin are Ballinwillin in football they didnt even field this year. Lismore pulled out of the Junior football halfway through the championship. a farce to say the least. Tallow & Ballyduff can be hit & miss depending how the hurlers are going. Some of the city clubs are no better like Mt Sion Roanmore & Erins Own. Tbf Ballygunner are a hurling only club and DLS have 2 football teams so its not entirely correct to say that the problem with Waterford football lies with the city

Mountainlad · 25-09-2012 10:50pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Tourin are Ballinwillin in football they didnt even field this year. Lismore pulled out of the Junior football halfway through the championship. a farce to say the least. Tallow & Ballyduff can be hit & miss depending how the hurlers are going. Some of the city clubs are no better like Mt Sion Roanmore & Erins Own. Tbf Ballygunner are a hurling only club and DLS have 2 football teams so its not entirely correct to say that the problem with Waterford football lies with the city

It's more extensive, but you've got the greatest chunk of this County's population there and given the standard is pretty poor overall, the fact that Gaultier and St Saviours are the flag bearers is pretty bad, especially as St Saviours have enormous problems trying to keep players from soccer. Don't know an awful lot about Gaultier in terms of how big a club is or how well it's run. They are Senior, but they still are sub par.

deisebhoy17 · 25-09-2012 10:58pm

Mountainlad wrote: »

It's more extensive, but you've got the greatest chunk of this County's population there and given the standard is pretty poor overall, the fact that Gaultier and St Saviours are the flag bearers is pretty bad, especially as St Saviours have enormous problems trying to keep players from soccer. Don't know an awful lot about Gaultier in terms of how big a club is or how well it's run. They are Senior, but they still are sub par.

you cant even really call gaultier a city club as their based in Dunmore East, although their catchment area includes Ballygunner. But yea For the population of Waterford City it should be contributing a lot more

hardybuck · 25-09-2012 11:41pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

you cant even really call gaultier a city club as their based in Dunmore East, although their catchment area includes Ballygunner. But yea For the population of Waterford City it should be contributing a lot more

Yeah Gaultier are probably half city half Dunmore East/Passage East sort of area. They actually have a massive catchment area if you think about it.

Saviours are a small club, similar in many ways to a lot of rural clubs, but very different in others. They are joined up with Erins Own at underage, and don't bring through too many players.

DLS are obviously a big club, and have a lot of football people among their ranks I believe. They get to a lot of very good underage teams in the last few years - I wonder what happens to all of these players - squandered I suppose.

Clubs like Mount Sion and Ferrybank are really underachieving then. While Sion would be a bigger club, Ferrybank has a big population, and they should be achieving more.

Then you've got the likes of St Pauls and Erins Own, and I suppose you'd nearly county Butlerstown as a city club at this stage. St Pauls are a brand new club, and good luck to them. Erins Own - I don't know what's going on out there these days? Butlerstown used to be an intermediate club before losing their way, but I hear they are doing better at underage of late. I think Roanmore then also have been doing well at underage also in recent years.

I've always believed that there should be a city group team. There must be at least a couple of very good young lads in clubs like St Pauls, Erins Own, Roanmore, Ferrybank and Mount Sion in particular who will end up being forced out of football almost when they come to senior level due to the apathy towards the game in their clubs. I know people will say it'll never work, but this is an example of where the clubs themselves must start making more of an effort.

toggingout · 26-09-2012 12:55pm

Bit harsh to call Gaultier sub par, as they reached the 1/4 and semi finals over the past 4 years. Yes they were poor this year but all teams go thru phases. Gaultier has a big attachment area but the reality is that having two other hurling clubs is more of a hindrence than a benefit. Gaultier get young lads from Passage and Ballygunner up to under 18 and that's about it after. Very few play senior, in fact Gaultier provides Ballygunner and Passage with more senior hurlers than the other way round. Big area means little really, if you have too many players, you can't keep them all happy and they end up leaving. Look at Stradbally what they achieved with a small playing pool. Look at Tramore who haven't a senior team in either codes.

deisebhoy17 · 26-09-2012 6:26pm

HARTY CUP RD. 1 26th SEPT
Dungarvan CBS 3-13 DOON cbs 1-13

Dean Ryan Cup U/16 ½ A Hurling Results - Blackwater C.S. 2-19 Ardscoil Rís 3-11; Clonmel CBS 1-10 DLS Waterford 1-10

WumBuster · 26-09-2012 6:44pm

Wasnt aware Gaultier have the Ballygunner area aswell thought it was just Passage. Thats a massive population to pick from, surely the biggest in the county. A city group team might not be a bad idea but sure would they even field a team then or take it any way serious? The only lads down there who want to play football are the ones who either want to keep fit for the hurling or soccer. Or to run off a Sunday morning hangover.

solarith · 26-09-2012 7:14pm

WumBuster wrote: »

Wasnt aware Gaultier have the Ballygunner area aswell thought it was just Passage. Thats a massive population to pick from, surely the biggest in the county. A city group team might not be a bad idea but sure would they even field a team then or take it any way serious? The only lads down there who want to play football are the ones who either want to keep fit for the hurling or soccer. Or to run off a Sunday morning hangover.

Group teams hav been a constant failure in Waterford.

zol 2 · 26-09-2012 9:29pm

The hurling in this county has been first choice by 90% of youngfellas ever since the seniors made it to the National League final and Munster final in 1998. Hurling has always been the first choice game in the county and with the success of the senior since then,it has only added to the attractiveness of playing it at the highest level. It's given higher exposure here and and at national level and kids growing up want to emulate the likes of Paul Flynn,Ken McGrath, Dan Shanahan,John Mullane etc. Unfortunately for the football die hards here,clubs like Ballygunner,Mt Sion,Tallow,Ballyduff,Lismore,and lately even Dungarvan,are always going to promote hurling in their clubs as it has always been there traditional game and where they have had most success,and where these clubs have been brought to national prominence through players from these clubs playing at the highest level nationally.
Larry Tompkins had limited success at u21 level when in charge of the footballers but it still went back to the old habits of hurling becoming first choice,where,if the county board,sponsors,players and even supporters were serious enough to promote the game properly in this county,a start should have been made after that to try something to get it more exposure in the clubs. The bottom line is it isn't going to change anytime soon and with the county board in financial crisis,definitely the football will suffer more so than the hurling so it's as you were for the time being.
One final comment on this,and i'm open to correction,but this year's Western junior football championship was contested by 8 teams and am i right in saying that if all teams just fulfilled their 7 league fixtures they automatically qualified for the quarter final no matter if they were hammered in each fixture? If this is true well how in god's name was this going to help the game in these clubs? Don't tell me by giving them more game time because all it would have done would have made a complete mockery of the championship and its no wonder Lismore did withdraw from it as it would be near impossible to keep players enthusiastic enough to play the game knowing the result didn't matter as they would be qualified anyway.

WumBuster · 26-09-2012 10:00pm

But there are also a lot of clubs, particularly in west Waterford who do like playing football and have a strong tradition of it. Your 90% is a bit off there. My own club we had equal measures of both some preferred the hurling, some preferred the football. The hurling coaching wasnt the greatest for youngfellas in rural areas back 20+ years ago and as a consequence a lot of fellas found it tough going to pick up the skills and i remember if you were a more timid youngfella at 12 years of age you'd be having the shyte frightened out of ya with these madmen waving sticks around the field. Some just couldnt be arsed and wanted to stick to the football which is a more enjoyable game to play, imo although hurling is better to watch. I dont want waterford to denounce its hurling tradition but it needs to give guys who want to play football every chance if they so choose to do so, rather than being forced into playing hurling and not being derided at for wanting to play football.

deisebhoy17 · 26-09-2012 10:02pm

zol 2 wrote: »

i'm open to correction,but this year's Western junior football championship was contested by 8 teams and am i right in saying that if all teams just fulfilled their 7 league fixtures they automatically qualified for the quarter final no matter if they were hammered in each fixture? If this is true well how in god's name was this going to help the game in these clubs? Don't tell me by giving them more game time because all it would have done would have made a complete mockery of the championship and its no wonder Lismore did withdraw from it as it would be near impossible to keep players enthusiastic enough to play the game knowing the result didn't matter as they would be qualified anyway.

ah no its top 4 qualify for the semi finals

comeraghs · 27-09-2012 1:58pm

Zol 2 is correct. All 8 teams progressed to the quarter finals. Top team of the 8 (Affane) played Kilgobinet (last, didn't win any games in league part).

But with regard to Kilgobinet. This club has been very badly hit by emigration, at least 8 of last years team are in either the US or Canada this year, At least they are provided with 8 games. better than losing 7 & being out.

The Intruder · 27-09-2012 3:02pm

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

zol 2 wrote: »

i'm open to correction,but this year's Western junior football championship was contested by 8 teams and am i right in saying that if all teams just fulfilled their 7 league fixtures they automatically qualified for the quarter final no matter if they were hammered in each fixture? If this is true well how in god's name was this going to help the game in these clubs? Don't tell me by giving them more game time because all it would have done would have made a complete mockery of the championship and its no wonder Lismore did withdraw from it as it would be near impossible to keep players enthusiastic enough to play the game knowing the result didn't matter as they would be qualified anyway.

ah no its top 4 qualify for the semi finals

No pretty sure they all qualified for 1/4 finals even if they lost all their games. If I recall correctly this format was decided on foot of a request from old parish for more games during the summer. In one way the system works as teams are expected to play games of league section without county players and therefore the championship doesn't get held up for The whole summer and the likes of old parish get their games. I can't see the benefit of meaningless games to Lismore and tallow who I'm sure would prefer 2 groups of 4 leading to semi final. And therefore playing 3 meaningful games prior to semis ar opposed to 8 in the current format

Deise Hurler · 27-09-2012 8:50pm

comeraghs wrote: »

Zol 2 is correct. All 8 teams progressed to the quarter finals. Top team of the 8 (Affane) played Kilgobinet (last, didn't win any games in league part).

But with regard to Kilgobinet. This club has been very badly hit by emigration, at least 8 of last years team are in either the US or Canada this year, At least they are provided with 8 games. better than losing 7 & being out.

I hear Kilgobnet are getting some lad that played gaelic out in spain the last few years back for the knockout stages and he could be the difference between them losing games and winning the whole thing out.

deisebhoy17 · 27-09-2012 10:03pm

comeraghs wrote: »

Zol 2 is correct. All 8 teams progressed to the quarter finals. Top team of the 8 (Affane) played Kilgobinet (last, didn't win any games in league part).

But with regard to Kilgobinet. This club has been very badly hit by emigration, at least 8 of last years team are in either the US or Canada this year, At least they are provided with 8 games. better than losing 7 & being out.

Lismore pulled out of the competition so only 7 teams in quarters then?

Mountainlad · 28-09-2012 11:53am

Deise Hurler wrote: »

I hear Kilgobnet are getting some lad that played gaelic out in spain the last few years back for the knockout stages and he could be the difference between them losing games and winning the whole thing out.

Andrés Iniesta I think is his name :P

deisebhoy17 · 28-09-2012 12:26pm

Deise Hurler wrote: »

I hear Kilgobnet are getting some lad that played gaelic out in spain the last few years back for the knockout stages and he could be the difference between them losing games and winning the whole thing out.

Well they were hammered out the gap by Affane anyway so either they didnt get him back or he was suffering from a bit of jetlag

deisedevil · 28-09-2012 12:58pm

Deise Hurler wrote: »

I hear Kilgobnet are getting some lad that played gaelic out in spain the last few years back for the knockout stages and he could be the difference between them losing games and winning the whole thing out.

Crying laughing at this. Still not fully sure if you were serious or if you were taking the piss out of a certain individual but wither way it's funny.

Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

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