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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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Comments

  • #4502
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    Thirty year rule applies in the case of state lands, but the Claremorris Collooney section of the so-called WRC has been closed for well more than 30 years.
    The point that I and many posters have made is twofold; CIE needs to assert ownership of the route, and the silence from WOT on the squatting issue is hard to understand, given that they expect a railway to be built on the route.

    WOT are a joke. Always have been and always will be. The facts to back it up are freely available. If this post is reported, I can only hope that its dealt with in a sensible manner and does not lead to a ban like those inflicted on others who were more visionary that many of us left here.


  • #4503
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    If this post is reported, I can only hope that its dealt with in a sensible manner and does not lead to a ban like those inflicted on others who were more visionary that many of us left here.

    Please* do not discuss moderation one way or another.

    *A polite way of asking, but this is really a rule and not a request.


  • #4504
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    WOT are a joke. Always have been and always will be. The facts to back it up are freely available. If this post is reported, I can only hope that its dealt with in a sensible manner and does not lead to a ban like those inflicted on others who were more visionary that many of us left here.

    They're not a joke, I'm afraid. They are a very effective anti-tourism lobby that has so far managed to persuade a couple of backward-looking county councils that a railway will be built on the route of the Claremorris-Collooney light rail line, when they know themselves that this is a most definite non-runner.
    The only logic in their stance, apart from their lack of concern for the tourism industry, has to be that they don't want a successful greenway on this route to create a clamour for the same infrastructure south as far as Athenry and Ennis.
    Until we get a few new county councillors who are able to do their own thinking instead of relying on group-think, this impasse will continue. Thankfully there is talk of this happening in a few key towns, and the numbers are certainly there to dislodge the worst offenders. This approach may cause some of the others to rethink their positions and to jump on the greenway bandwagon once they see what way the wind is blowing.


  • #4505
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    eastwest wrote: »
    They're not a joke, I'm afraid. They are a very effective anti-tourism lobby that has so far managed to persuade a couple of backward-looking county councils that a railway will be built on the route of the Claremorris-Collooney light rail line, when they know themselves that this is a most definite non-runner.
    .

    However East West - they (SF/WOT) are looking increasingly isolated, apart from support from Sinn Fein/West on Track councillors and SinnFein/West on Track allies on the councils they are diminishing in influence where it matters - The department of Transport. I am surprised TDs like John O'Mahony and MEPs like Jim Higgins are still allying with Sinn Fein West on Track when Sinn Fein West on Track are clearly not in favour with the Minister - as per the news reported in the Galway Independent this week: see this link:

    http://www.galwayindependent.com/20131127/news/call-for-u-turn-on-west-funding-snub-S28359.html

    The fact the WRC is not going to get TEN-T funding is effectively the final death knell because without TEN-T funding from Europe there will be no money for the WRC, it is certainly not going to get funded out of domestic funds, and it is clear from this article the government are not going back to Europe to get it changed

    Added to that the most important part of this report are the acidic and terse comments about West on Track made by the Department of Transport and I quote from this article:
    In a statement to the Galway Independent, the Department of Transport said that it "totally refutes" the allegation that officials had admitted that changes could be made or that it would be "embarrassing" for the Government, saying that "no such statement" had been made and "this is not the first time that West-on-Track has misrepresented the Department".

    and then this one which spells it out and also shows the age old "the wesht gets nothing crap is well and truly dispelled:
    They (Dept of Transport) added that technological criteria and methodology was laid down by the Commission rather than the individual Member States and these included "very specific criteria relating to 'urban nodes', which meant that only Dublin and Cork cities qualified for inclusion in the Core Network" and..."In the case of the Comprehensive Network , it includes road and airports in the north-west that link into the network on both sides. Phase 1 of the Western Rail Corridor, the Dublin-Galway rail line and the Dublin-Sligo rail line are all included in the Ten-T Comprehensive Network. Also included in the Comprehensive Network in the West/North West are the N4, N5, N13, N14, N15, N16 and N17."

    Annoying the very department you are lobbying is not what I would call very intelligent. It is clear from these quotes the idea of the WRC extension north of Tuam, never mind the ludicrous notion of north of Claremorris have been well and truly binned. West on Track no longer have credibility in the Department of Transport. Game over.


  • #4506
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,489 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    eastwest wrote: »
    Thirty year rule applies in the case of state lands, but the Claremorris Collooney section of the so-called WRC has been closed for well more than 30 years.
    The point that I and many posters have made is twofold; CIE needs to assert ownership of the route, and the silence from WOT on the squatting issue is hard to understand, given that they expect a railway to be built on the route.

    Recent changes to the law basically that CIE having even a half-assed plan for what to do with the land and sending a weed cutting contractor in every decade is almost certainly enough.


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  • #4507
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Just heard that a pro-greenway candidate has declared for the local elections in Tuam. This brings the battle for tourism development right to the heart of the anti-tourism bloc in Galway county council, and it appears that they are targeting a specific SF/WOT councillor in Tuam.
    There is a rumour that a similar strategy is planned in Charlestown and in Swinford, with specific councillors bring targeted for removal in both cases.
    Interesting times ahead!


  • #4508
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    monument wrote: »
    Case law on this is apparently set out in Dunne v Iarnrod Eireann if anybody wants to do some reading... I will later too...
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055169446


  • #4509
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    dowlingm wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055169446

    Interesting on a number of levels.
    In particular, the court seemed to accept as a given that a twelve year rule applied in the case where the plaintiff sought adverse possession of CIE lands. No mention of a longer period in the case of state-owned lands.


  • #4510
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    They're not a joke, I'm afraid. They are a very effective anti-tourism lobby that has so far managed to persuade a couple of backward-looking county councils that a railway will be built on the route of the Claremorris-Collooney light rail line, when they know themselves that this is a most definite non-runner.
    The only logic in their stance, apart from their lack of concern for the tourism industry, has to be that they don't want a successful greenway on this route to create a clamour for the same infrastructure south as far as Athenry and Ennis.
    Until we get a few new county councillors who are able to do their own thinking instead of relying on group-think, this impasse will continue. Thankfully there is talk of this happening in a few key towns, and the numbers are certainly there to dislodge the worst offenders. This approach may cause some of the others to rethink their positions and to jump on the greenway bandwagon once they see what way the wind is blowing.

    They are a joke and have justified their joke status with the help of politicians, who in turn are a joke, especially in the West of Ireland. Western lobbyists claim they get nothing from Dublin, yet have no problem in hindering development in the East. Dublin Airports' main runway remains at a disadvantaged length due to West of Ireland lobbying to keep Shannon as a player. This was done over the course of many years. Once they were told to basically F off, the money ran out and The Dublin runway remains as it was. Maybe in the scheme of "Irishness" they don't appear to be a joke, but in the bigger picture WOT are nothing more than equal to the dummies that support them and the absolutely ignorant political establishment that tolerate them. Justifying them in any fashion, merely reaffirms the view that this nation is FUBAR.


  • #4511
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    eastwest wrote: »
    Just heard that a pro-greenway candidate has declared for the local elections in Tuam. This brings the battle for tourism development right to the heart of the anti-tourism bloc in Galway county council, and it appears that they are targeting a specific SF/WOT councillor in Tuam.
    There is a rumour that a similar strategy is planned in Charlestown and in Swinford, with specific councillors bring targeted for removal in both cases.
    Interesting times ahead!

    But this is more bull**** that completely negates effective local Government, not that its possible in the first place. Candidates running on a specific ticket to thwart the WRC in favour of a Greenway. The WRC shouldn't even be an issue to any sensible person. But because of its rediculous profile people will run in local elections to promote a Greenway instead. This is so unfair on so many levels, because the region does not need the WRC warfare mentality and will suffer as a result. Whats needed is the blatantly obvious and lacking, guidance from central Government. Fight this one on the streets of the west and the west will get what it deserves. Dublin is not the enemy.


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  • #4512
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    But this is more bull**** that completely negates effective local Government, not that its possible in the first place. Candidates running on a specific ticket to thwart the WRC in favour of a Greenway. The WRC shouldn't even be an issue to any sensible person. But because of its rediculous profile people will run in local elections to promote a Greenway instead. This is so unfair on so many levels, because the region does not need the WRC warfare mentality and will suffer as a result. Whats needed is the blatantly obvious and lacking, guidance from central Government. Fight this one on the streets of the west and the west will get what it deserves. Dublin is not the enemy.
    Unfortunately the reality is that the existing councillors continue to block the development of this essential infrastructure, so a group of citizens in Tuam has decided to try to oust one of the worst offenders, which can't be a bad thing.
    Bringing a few independent candidates into local authorities, even if they are single-issue candidates, mightn't be a bad thing either. The party whip system is the single biggest obstacle in the way of the greenway project, but also makes the introduction of any forward-thinking project akin to wading through concrete.


  • #4513
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,864 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Might be of interest to folks here:
    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/051213_01.html
    Submissions should be made no later than 5.00p.m. on Friday 20th December, 2013.


  • #4514
    Copyerselveson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Might be of interest to folks here:
    http://www.galwaycity.ie/GeneralNews/051213_01.html
    Submissions should be made no later than 5.00p.m. on Friday 20th December, 2013.

    Thanks for the heads-up.


  • #4515
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Copyerselveson wrote: »
    Thanks for the heads-up.

    Indeed lets get submissions in to wake this crowd up as well.


  • #4516
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    But this is more bull**** that completely negates effective local Government, not that its possible in the first place. Candidates running on a specific ticket to thwart the WRC in favour of a Greenway. The WRC shouldn't even be an issue to any sensible person. But because of its rediculous profile people will run in local elections to promote a Greenway instead. This is so unfair on so many levels, because the region does not need the WRC warfare mentality and will suffer as a result. Whats needed is the blatantly obvious and lacking, guidance from central Government. Fight this one on the streets of the west and the west will get what it deserves. Dublin is not the enemy.

    It's called democracy.

    It's up to people to stand on single issues or not as they see fit, as it is up to people to vote for them or not. In such a hotly contested election, such a candidate can have a real impact without even getting elected (ie blocking somebody else from getting elected) but this can also backfire.

    It's also not clear if the WRC is a true single issue -- it crosses the areas of health, tourism, transport, gov spending and it seems the issue of people feeling that they are not being listened to.

    It's unclear what you're talking about when you say that the "region does not need the WRC warfare mentality" -- Have both sides not past the mark of all out war some time ago?

    As for direction from central government -- they have already said the railway is not going to happen anytime soon.


  • #4517
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    The candidate in Tuam is not a "single issue" candidate, she is a community based pragmatist and supports the Tuam Greenway project and will put it on her ticket. The sligo mayo greenway group will support her in her attempt to get elected and shake up the flabby white boys in Galway Coco.


  • #4518
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    monument wrote: »
    It's called democracy.

    It's up to people to stand on single issues or not as they see fit, as it is up to people to vote for them or not. In such a hotly contested election, such a candidate can have a real impact without even getting elected (ie blocking somebody else from getting elected) but this can also backfire.

    It's also not clear if the WRC is a true single issue -- it crosses the areas of health, tourism, transport, gov spending and it seems the issue of people feeling that they are not being listened to.

    It's unclear what you're talking about when you say that the "region does not need the WRC warfare mentality" -- Have both sides not past the mark of all out war some time ago?

    As for direction from central government -- they have already said the railway is not going to happen anytime soon.


    The WRC is not an issue for the general populace of the West. But running candidates on a greenway ticket, will make it one. Thats where the warfare mentality will come in. Watch this space.


  • #4519
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    westtip wrote: »
    The candidate in Tuam is not a "single issue" candidate, she is a community based pragmatist and supports the Tuam Greenway project and will put it on her ticket. The sligo mayo greenway group will support her in her attempt to get elected and shake up the flabby white boys in Galway Coco.

    Recipe for disaster. The WRC is still a success at election time and has been since 1981.


  • #4520
    relaxed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 572 ✭✭✭relaxed


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    The WRC is not an issue for the general populace of the West. But running candidates on a greenway ticket, will make it one. Thats where the warfare mentality will come in. Watch this space.


    Theres no war here, apart from a thread on the backend of the internet I doubt anybody gives a sh1t.


  • #4521
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,061 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    relaxed wrote: »
    Theres no war here, apart from a thread on the backend of the internet I doubt anybody gives a sh1t.

    As I said. Watch this space.


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  • #4522
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Grandeod, there is a strong community campaign in Tuam in favour of the Greenway, the Flabby White Boys have really p1ssed the good folk of Tuam off for a long time. I'm not sure single issue candidates is the route - but with new candidates coming into challenge the Flabby White Boys there is a modicum of hope they will at last be challenged, but don't hold your breath - this is Ireland the Flabby White Boys don't want to be upset.


  • #4523
    Copyerselveson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 299 ✭✭Copyerselveson


    westtip wrote: »
    Grandeod, there is a strong community campaign in Tuam in favour of the Greenway, the Flabby White Boys have really p1ssed the good folk of Tuam off for a long time. I'm not sure single issue candidates is the route - but with new candidates coming into challenge the Flabby White Boys there is a modicum of hope they will at last be challenged, but don't hold your breath - this is Ireland the Flabby White Boys don't want to be upset.

    So I'm guessing you don't expect the so-called Sligo-Mayo Greenway to be included in the Galway and Sligo county development plans at this stage?


  • #4524
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Copyerselveson wrote: »
    So I'm guessing you don't expect the so-called Sligo-Mayo Greenway to be included in the Galway and Sligo county development plans at this stage?

    What I expect is irrelevant. However I don't expect the "so called Western Rail Corridor" to be built, whether it's in a county plan as an aspiration or not, because of four letters and a hyphen: TEN-T


  • #4525
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Recipe for disaster. The WRC is still a success at election time and has been since 1981.
    I think that there is still a large volume of opinion in the region that favours a railway, even a heavily loss-making one as long as the cost isn't levied locally, but I doubt that anybody other than a small coterie of anoraks really believes that it's going to happen in the next twenty or thirty years.
    The argument of protecting the route with a greenway makes absolute sense, and the people who oppose that stance are just 'dogs in the manger'. The majority of people that I have spoken to in the past few years on this topic will acknowledge that there ain't no train coming.
    There are three simple questions to ask about a railway on this route.
    1. Who will pay to build it?
    2. Who will subsidise it?
    3. Who will use it?
    The 'build it and they will come' nonsense has been well exposed by the failure of Ennis Athenry. The anoraks would be well advised to watch that space and try to keep their little hobby train running there, and forget about absolute fantasy of a train connecting Tuam with Sligo.
    So the train will be part of the promises all right, but nobody with half a brain will believe it.


  • #4526
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    eastwest wrote: »
    I think that there is still a large volume of opinion in the region that favours a railway, even a heavily loss-making one as long as the cost isn't levied locally, but I doubt that anybody other than a small coterie of anoraks really believes that it's going to happen in the next twenty or thirty years.
    The argument of protecting the route with a greenway makes absolute sense, and the people who oppose that stance are just 'dogs in the manger'. The majority of people that I have spoken to in the past few years on this topic will acknowledge that there ain't no train coming.
    There are three simple questions to ask about a railway on this route.
    1. Who will pay to build it?
    2. Who will subsidise it?
    3. Who will use it?
    The 'build it and they will come' nonsense has been well exposed by the failure of Ennis Athenry. The anoraks would be well advised to watch that space and try to keep their little hobby train running there, and forget about absolute fantasy of a train connecting Tuam with Sligo.
    So the train will be part of the promises all right, but nobody with half a brain will believe it.

    Absolutely - as said in my previous post - TEN-T = RIP WRC


  • #4527
    Tuam Greenway Project
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Tuam Greenway Project


    westtip wrote: »
    The candidate in Tuam is not a "single issue" candidate, she is a community based pragmatist and supports the Tuam Greenway project and will put it on her ticket. The sligo mayo greenway group will support her in her attempt to get elected and shake up the flabby white boys in Galway Coco.

    Just to clarify that Karey McHugh Ind. is most definately not a single issue candidate. She is a twenty something, community minded, socially aware young business woman who is not apron tied to spent ideologies. She has pledged her support for the Greenway Project, as has Cllr. Shaun Cunniffe, and in our view they will, between them, gather up a large chunk of the Tuam town vote. Greenways as part of family friendly, business enhancing, mental and physical health supporting, amenities will be a real issue on the ground in Galway. TGP will be cranking up a campaign to ensure that all candidates will be asked where they stand on the disused railway. The people of Tuam have had enough of a decaying and increasingly dangerous linear wasteland. If candidtates are seriously proposing Rail - they will need to back it up with a logical business case, a confirmed source of funding and a realistic time frame. While some Athenry and Claremorris based politicians might dream of busy Rail Junctions for their respective towns, we know that majority of Tuam people are fed up with "pie in sky" political opportunism of a knowingly undeliverable, unsustainable rail line.


  • #4528
    Tuam Greenway Project
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Tuam Greenway Project


    Copyerselveson wrote: »
    So I'm guessing you don't expect the so-called Sligo-Mayo Greenway to be included in the Galway and Sligo county development plans at this stage?

    Regardless of county development plans, the decision on what happens to the decaying rail line between Sligo and Tuam will ultimately be taken by its owners, CIE (Property), under direction from its proposed operators, Irish Rail & its supposed financers, National Government. CIE have already stated (in writing )that they are open to the idea of a Greenway on the track under permissive access and with community involvement. The writing is on the wall.


  • #4529
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    TGP well put on both two previous two posts, the anti-tourism councils in both Mayo and Galway are now being exposed in their stance on the WRC. Both councils know full well the game is now up, because there is going to be no magical pot of money produced out of a hat from Europe on this one.

    TEN-T is now European policy and Galway county council passing motions is not going to change it!

    WOT have had the councils in their pockets for too long, and hanging on the coat tails of MEPs like Jim Higgins who have wined and dined WOT delegates in Brussels far too many times promising they would get TEN-T funding for WRC to save it from oblivion. With the likes of Jim Higgins and failing to deliver on TEN-T they are now moaning about it and saying the west has been let down, this is not true by the way as TEN-T clearly supports the development of the N17 and M19.

    The councils are now only delaying the inevitable. It's great that Shaun Cunniffe is being so vocal and a new candidate, Karey Mchugh is being clear that a greenway is the best thing for Tuam; perhaps when they get in the Galway chamber the flabby white boys will start taking note. I only hope new young voters will get out to vote and remove the Flabby white boys from their comfort zone.


  • #4530
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    westtip wrote: »
    TGP well put on both two previous two posts, the anti-tourism councils in both Mayo and Galway are now being exposed in their stance on the WRC. Both councils know full well the game is now up, because there is going to be no magical pot of money produced out of a hat from Europe on this one.

    TEN-T is now European policy and Galway county council passing motions is not going to change it!

    WOT have had the councils in their pockets for too long, and hanging on the coat tails of MEPs like Jim Higgins who have wined and dined WOT delegates in Brussels far too many times promising they would get TEN-T funding for WRC to save it from oblivion. With the likes of Jim Higgins and failing to deliver on TEN-T they are now moaning about it and saying the west has been let down, this is not true by the way as TEN-T clearly supports the development of the N17 and M19.

    The councils are now only delaying the inevitable. It's great that Shaun Cunniffe is being so vocal and a new candidate, Karey Mchugh is being clear that a greenway is the best thing for Tuam; perhaps when they get in the Galway chamber the flabby white boys will start taking note. I only hope new young voters will get out to vote and remove the Flabby white boys from their comfort zone.

    Jim Higgins is unlikely to be an MEP for much longer. Most commentators agree that there is probably only one FG seat in the new constituency, and Higgins' record vis-à-vis that of powerful vote-getter Mairead McGuinness would mean that he has almost zero chance of making it. The other possible FG candidate if Higgins bows to this inevitability would be John O'Mahony, and this might explain his recent clutching at straws by coming down on the SF/WOT of this debate. However O'Mahony has an even less chance of going to Europe, which might explain his courting of the SF/WOT axis; is he going to make the leap to Sinn Fein one of these days?


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  • #4531
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    eastwest wrote: »
    However O'Mahony has an even less chance of going to Europe, which might explain his courting of the SF/WOT axis; is he going to make the leap to Sinn Fein one of these days?

    Indeed O'Mahony needs to decide which party policy he supports; The party he currently represents FG, in government have endorsed and supported TEN-T which will not fund WRC, only SF as a party have the WRC as official party policy with the Western Arc rail line from Derry to Limerick (I know LOL :D) - If O'Mahony has decided to pin his policy thinking in line with Sinn Fein/ West on Track policy thinking he needs to say which party policy he will ally himself to: Sinn Fein or FG. Perhaps he is just about to jump ship?


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