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Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭mgmt


    Another 2 seconds.
    8. Dividend Payments


    The dividend paid during the year amounted to 30% (2008: 20%) of the previous year’s profit for the financial year as directed by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. The dividend was apportioned between the Exchequer (€38.2 million) and Bord Gáis Employee Share Ownership Trust (€0.9 million) in accordance with the amounts of issued capital stock held by the Minister for Finance (87.73%), the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (10%) and Bord Gáis Employee Share Ownership Trust (2.27%).

    (back to top)

    http://www.bordgais.ie/annualreport2009/notes6-10.html


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    OK, they've taken dividend payments amounting to fractions of the profit.

    Still doesn't tie in with your conspiracy theory. Still nothing about the fact that their prices were deliberately put up to "encourage" competition.

    If your conspiracy was right, the state would be taking the entire profits as well as refusing to allow either firm expand internationally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Some encouraging news for Greenway fans of the WRC

    Looks like even in these tight times there may be money available for greenway projects (my emboldening) extract from national disaster plan below, Tally ho JD I look forward to a cycling outing with chums on the Burma Road, flask of tea, cheese and pickle sandwiches and a bag of boiled sweets, not to mention some dandelion and burdock.....

    .
    turn to growth in tourism numbers is dependent on a recovery in external markets. But measures to improve the quality and diversity of the tourism product and our competitiveness will position the sector to take advantage of that recovery. Capital funding for the tourism sector will be focussed on completing the upgrade of major tourist attractions, developing a small number of key iconic attractions, improving infrastructure for recreational cycling, walking and water based activities and heritage attractions..

    http://www.budget.gov.ie/The%20National%20Recovery%20Plan%202011-2014.pdf


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    MYOB wrote: »
    Still nothing about the fact that their prices were deliberately put up to "encourage" competition
    That's a "fact"? Competition ensues when prices are deliberately lowered and competitors enter the market. My point was about state interference destroying private commercial enterprise, not about profit/loss, and thanks for helping to make it.
    corktina wrote: »
    But if it takes half an hour longer than the Bus, whats the point of it?It would have been better value to have spent the money on more motorway which is used by far more people however much it might cost
    "Used by far more people" is a dangerous presumption, and either way, it's no argument for not building a parallel mode of transport. And taking costs into account is always important; saying "no matter how much" is an emotional argument. I already pointed out that the money spent on the WRC (including stations, passing sidings et al) was enough to build less than ten miles of motorway. "No matter how much it might cost" falls apart on that score.
    corktina wrote: »
    (Oh and the figures I posted weere for the WORLD'S fastest train, the first one scheduled at over 70 mph average...try READING the posts)
    World's fastest train according to what source? And WADR, it still looks like to me that you're getting average speed and top speed mixed up. There were several railways around the world that operated steam trains at average speeds of 70 mph and above.
    westtip wrote: »
    Looks like even in these tight times there may be money available for greenway projects
    Yeah, isn't that absolutely funny. One of the worst wastes of money ever; low capital costs but high maintenance costs. Permanently close arteries for commercial purposes and never be able to use them for potential passenger and goods transport again. Given what the EU's doing to Ireland right now in terms of attacks on sovereignty, that is not wise at all.
    When it rains a bit, will the motorway be closed for 6 weeks do you think?
    Has the River Fergus flood control project been cancelled? I didn't hear that it was.

    The other flood zones were the towns by the Slieve Aughty mountain range, where flash floods came off the mountains; that's a whole different matter, and it's not only the railway that this thread concerns with that would be affected, but the railway from Dublin and all of the road arteries. They haven't built the motorway from Limerick up that way yet that I see, but the M6 goes through areas affected by floods. There seems to be quite a bit of foot-dragging going on with regard to flood control there.
    I'd imagine the motorway might carry more than 9 times as many people as the train line - And that's just counting during the hours there's no train services running
    That's quite a bit of imagination. You've certainly made the case for ending government interference in the markets, and noted that the railway can carry far more trains than it currently does. Remember, one six-car train = 390 single-occupancy cars or more.
    And before someone mentions 'the Luas started to fill up immediately' remember that the Luas and the WRC serve areas with drastically different population sizes
    So do the motorways that they're building out west. Population size/density arguments extend to all modes of transport and are not limited to one. And they're not "drastically" different especially when population density is taken into account. Furthermore, are some people really saying that Luas and InterCity have to serve the same purpose? (For my part, my position is that Luas is utterly under-built for the intended purpose, and that building new tramways in the city centre of Dublin for a system intended to serve as commuter rail is one of the worst rail mistakes ever. Expecting a single Luas vehicle to carry the same number of passengers as a six-car commuter train is an outrage.)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    every soldier in the parade out of step except you....:rolleyes:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    CIE wrote: »
    .Yeah, isn't that absolutely funny. One of the worst wastes of money ever; low capital costs but high maintenance costs. Permanently close arteries for commercial purposes and never be able to use them for potential passenger and goods transport again. )

    I suggest a bit of research on the contribution to tourism that Greenways make would be in order - look at the Sustrans website posted on this thread many times and look at the same.

    High maintenance costs - what for a cinder track and a bit of weedkiller, what actual drugs are you on.

    Greenways open the arteries for commercial use - thats if you count tourists using them of commercial benefit.

    The line from Claremorris to collooney will never be re-opened a greenway with a natural gas pipeline along the alignment would make excellent use of the alignment, commercial use of the alignment does not have to be a railway

    You talk about how "cheap" the WRC is well what is the point of cheap infrastucture that is not acually needed.

    Anyway - take a look at this picture to decide if this line has been permanently closed:

    walking by the railway.jpg

    I have put this pic up before - but urge you once again to look at it and think the possible, the potential but likely improbable.

    The difference as the advert says we're irish


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Thought this press release by DOT of interest yesterday - conspicuous in its absence is any mention of you know WOT apart from WOT has already been done:

    http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=266
    Public Transport - €670 million

    Capital Expenditure: €394 million
    The capital provision for public transport investment in 2011 is €394 million. This will enable the completion of the Luas extension to Citywest and the continuation of advance works on Metro North. It also provides funding for planning and design work on other Transport 21 projects with a view to the earliest possible delivery as financial resources become available.

    Funding is also being maintained for a number of important public transport programmes, including railway safety, accessibility, integrated ticketing and traffic management/bus priority.

    WRC received no direct mention in terms of ongoing T21 projects - one presumes if one asks DOT will say it is subject to planning and design work - which is a waffle way of saying sweet fanny adam will happen.

    plus in the same press release yesterday once again a direct reference was made to Tuam-Gort DC:
    Capital Expenditure: €990 million
    The 2011 capital provision for national roadsis €720 million, €394 million down on 2010. This allocation will fund new projects, including the Belturbet, N5 Longford and Tralee bypasses and the Cork Southern Ring Road junctions. Two PPP projects will also commence in 2011; the M17/18 Gort – Tuam PPP and the M11/Newlands Cross PPP bypasses and there also will be funding for rehabilitation and minor works.


    Is WRC northern branch line now officially a dead duck but they won't say for fear of losing even more votes in Tuam and Claremorris? and plan to leave the delivery of bad news (and its therefore their fault) to the next Government. Of course some of us out west don't see the demise of WRC northern branch line as bad news!!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 190 ✭✭DDigital


    westtip wrote: »
    Thought this press release by DOT of interest yesterday - conspicuous in its absence is any mention of you know WOT apart from WOT has already been done:

    http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=266



    WRC received no direct mention in terms of ongoing T21 projects - one presumes if one asks DOT will say it is subject to planning and design work - which is a waffle way of saying sweet fanny adam will happen.

    plus in the same press release yesterday once again a direct reference was made to Tuam-Gort DC:




    Is WRC northern branch line now officially a dead duck but they won't say for fear of losing even more votes in Tuam and Claremorris? and plan to leave the delivery of bad news (and its therefore their fault) to the next Government. Of course some of us out west don't see the demise of WRC northern branch line as bad news!!!!

    You didn't read all of it. Government Dept. press releases are famous for putting the detail outside the main body of text. Scroll down and you get this;
    Additional Information:

    What public transport projects will go ahead in the short term?

    We will continue to spend on vital public transport programmes such as railway safety, traffic management, accessibility and real time passenger information across the country. The planning and procurement processes for Metro North will progress in 2011 and enabling works will also begin next year. In Dublin the Luas extension to Citywest will be complete in 2011 and a new public transport bridge at Marlborough Street will commence construction. Planning will continue on a range of other public transport projects including Luas BXD, the cross-city link, Luas extensions to Lucan and Bray, and Metro West. Funding is available to commence construction on the Navan Line in 2013. Money will also be provided for the purchase of new buses for PSO services. Some initial planning and design for Phase 2 of the Western Rail Corridor will also happen next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭Transportuser09


    DDigital wrote: »
    You didn't read all of it. Government Dept. press releases are famous for putting the detail outside the main body of text. Scroll down and you get this;

    Additional Information:

    What public transport projects will go ahead in the short term?

    We will continue to spend on vital public transport programmes such as railway safety, traffic management, accessibility and real time passenger information across the country. The planning and procurement processes for Metro North will progress in 2011 and enabling works will also begin next year. In Dublin the Luas extension to Citywest will be complete in 2011 and a new public transport bridge at Marlborough Street will commence construction. Planning will continue on a range of other public transport projects including Luas BXD, the cross-city link, Luas extensions to Lucan and Bray, and Metro West. Funding is available to commence construction on the Navan Line in 2013. Money will also be provided for the purchase of new buses for PSO services. Some initial planning and design for Phase 2 of the Western Rail Corridor will also happen next year.

    Sounds reasonably hopeful. That said I'm sceptical about phase 3 going ahead but good to see they remain committed to Tuam-Athenry and also M3 Parkway-Navan. I see www.transport21.ie still hasn't been updated in a while (according to it phase 2 should be open next year!).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    thats not commitment, thats lip-service until after the election...


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,121 ✭✭✭ClovenHoof


    If a train ran north of Tuam and the Interconnector was not built I would begin lobbying for North Korea to invade and liberate this county.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    CIE wrote: »
    That's a "fact"? Competition ensues when prices are deliberately lowered and competitors enter the market.

    Yes, its a fact.

    The CER raised the ESB customer rates to allow other providers who had no generating capacity compete with the ESB, by buying wholesale power off the ESB and reselling it below the ESB's customer rates. The assumption being that they'd build sufficient capacity to compete properly.

    The ESB cannot go below the prices the CER sets it at until it has less than 60% market share. And it has announced that when it has said share, it's going to cut its prices.

    As goes "your point", its not valid and you've not proved it, or even made a good attempt at it; seeing as you don't even know what you're talking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,361 ✭✭✭mgmt


    MYOB wrote: »
    Yes, its a fact.

    The CER raised the ESB customer rates to allow other providers who had no generating capacity compete with the ESB, by buying wholesale power off the ESB and reselling it below the ESB's customer rates. The assumption being that they'd build sufficient capacity to compete properly.

    The ESB cannot go below the prices the CER sets it at until it has less than 60% market share. And it has announced that when it has said share, it's going to cut its prices.

    As goes "your point", its not valid and you've not proved it, or even made a good attempt at it; seeing as you don't even know what you're talking about.

    Everyone knows the CER has raised the ESB rates. Airtricity has drilled this home night after night in my area. What exactly is your point? Why is it relevant to WRC?


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    westtip wrote: »
    what actual drugs are you on.
    Easy now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    corktina wrote: »
    thats not commitment, thats lip-service until after the election...

    DD thanks for reading more deeply into the press release from Ministery of lies, however I think Corky realy has summed it up.

    The cunning plan - from the DOT - is the ongoing investigations and committment will always be there from this department but when a new government takes over and says it as it is ......that this project actually won't happen - they will get the blame for stopping this highly important initiative for the west LOL

    I am growing more confident about the Greenway idea as being the only realistic runner for the entire northern branch line.:D


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    mgmt wrote: »
    Everyone knows the CER has raised the ESB rates. Airtricity has drilled this home night after night in my area. What exactly is your point? Why is it relevant to WRC?

    My point is in disproving your ridiculous conspiracy theory and CIE's claim that the state doesn't run commercial services.

    I think both have been done, to everyone else here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,032 ✭✭✭DWCommuter


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMUv_cKtLM

    Just poached this from the infrastructure forum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    You've just made my day! I must have this DVD for my collection - it looks like another classic in the "Six Shooter" genre. I take it that it was made with a zero budget. While trying to track down a copy I found this 'interesting' picture of the 1975 (?) RPSI "Burma Road" railtour passing southbound through Leyney station. An early Christmas present for dribblers! :D

    train%2B1971.jpg
    http://michaelfarry.blogspot.com/2009/07/trip-to-sligo-6.html#links


  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭runway16


    CIE wrote: »
    Then again, "Route E-20" shows that the infrastructure planning is well out of Dublin's hands and those doing the planning intend to balkanise Ireland's transport infrastructure. (So funny that there's no demand for a rail corridor in the west but there is apparently demand for an Atlantic Road Corridor running alongside. I've seen this story before.)

    So who is in charge of the infrastructure planning then? The EU? It may come as a shock to you, but the E route system is a United Nations development.... it merely specifies strategic routes and set downs aspirations regarding the standard of those routes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    runway16 wrote: »
    So who is in charge of the infrastructure planning then? The EU? It may come as a shock to you, but the E route system is a United Nations development.... it merely specifies strategic routes and set downs aspirations regarding the standard of those routes.
    The UNECE (that stands for "United Nations Economic Commission for Europe") is heavily influenced by Brussels and Berlin especially since 1992. That may come as a shock to you, maybe. And in Ireland, yes, the EU does have final say on infrastructure; have a look at Articles 91, 170 and 171 of the Treaty of Lisbon, just for starters. (Even before that, you had the 1975 European Agreement on Main International Traffic Arteries, or "AGR".)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    DWCommuter wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXMUv_cKtLM

    Just poached this from the infrastructure forum.

    Welcome back DW. I see the donegal lobby are now in full force in the Irish Times of late.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    And welcome back westtip ....you had a prolonged Christmas break ...on the ginger beer? Did you get a copy of the Burma Road movie yet? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Just not posting - not much to say that has not been said on this subject though is there. WOT very quiet these days. Of course this news

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1228/1224286364552.html

    Has really killed the project off. I look forward to taking my tricycle on the Burma Road in a couple of years time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    westtip wrote: »
    Just not posting - not much to say that has not been said on this subject though is there. WOT very quiet these days. Of course this news (h)as really killed the project off. I look forward to taking my tricycle on the Burma Road in a couple of years time
    Counting chickens, or is that bats? The competing (why?) mode would not need to protect the bats.

    There's no such thing as road projects killing rail off. The inherent tendency of motorways to jam up requires relief. Motorways have a tendency to bring rails back.

    And at €9.3 million per kilometre (that's a whopping €15 million per mile), plus what the taxpayer will have to fork out to maintain it, watch for potholes go leor. (Also so funny that such a "small country" has such a need for motorways...)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    jammed up motorways? are you serious? they are practically empty compared to Uk and Continental equivalents.(not so empty that you have to give have the users free use of them though to justify keeping them


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,465 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    CIE wrote: »
    Counting chickens, or is that bats? The competing (why?) mode would not need to protect the bats.

    There's no such thing as road projects killing rail off. The inherent tendency of motorways to jam up requires relief. Motorways have a tendency to bring rails back.

    And at €9.3 million per kilometre (that's a whopping €15 million per mile), plus what the taxpayer will have to fork out to maintain it, watch for potholes go leor. (Also so funny that such a "small country" has such a need for motorways...)

    The M17/18 will never be "jammed up"- save for some form of disaster. Its not the M50 we're talking about here


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    An early Christmas present for dribblers! :D
    Behave.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    CIE wrote: »
    And at €9.3 million per kilometre (that's a whopping €15 million per mile), plus what the taxpayer will have to fork out to maintain it, watch for potholes go leor. (Also so funny that such a "small country" has such a need for motorways...)

    The cost includes operation and maintainence until handover date - likely to be some 27 to 28 YEARS after opening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭D'Peoples Voice


    In light of the budget constraints, I'm assuming this is dead in the water,
    despite Joe McHugh FG seemingly being determined to bring it about in the next Government
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055250040


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  • Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭runway16


    CIE wrote: »
    The UNECE (that stands for "United Nations Economic Commission for Europe") is heavily influenced by Brussels and Berlin especially since 1992. That may come as a shock to you, maybe. And in Ireland, yes, the EU does have final say on infrastructure; have a look at Articles 91, 170 and 171 of the Treaty of Lisbon, just for starters. (Even before that, you had the 1975 European Agreement on Main International Traffic Arteries, or "AGR".)

    Well, if whta you say is correct, then how come Brussels didnt put a stop to the WRC phase 1 then?


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