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camping in the back of a regular van.

  • 27-11-2011 12:57am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 638 ✭✭✭


    Hello fellow outdoorsies.

    I need to buy a new car as my old car broke down beyond repair this weekend.

    As i do alot of camping and driving around ireland(day trips mostly), I thought perhaps i might invest in buying a van instead. Storage would obviously be great, however,
    Does anyone know if its legal to sleep in the back of ones own van? Im often just travelling around ireland on the weekends and time off, hiking, fishing, etc, and it would allow me to do it alot more if i could stay in my van.

    I could fix it up to be plenty comfortable with a fold out bed and some lights etc.

    Would this be safe? Am i allowed just pull up and park in a regular parking spot or beside a forest(in proper parking) and stay the night?

    It would be amazing to have a little travel home at my disposal, without the large costs of a campervan!


Comments

  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,074 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Don't actually know whether its legal or not but loads of people do it. I've often pulled up on the coast and stayed the night in the van.


  • Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    Hi,
    Crashed my car before Christmas, bought a Renault Kangoo partly for the van-camping (Vamping? Vanping?) potential. I'm not very tall, so it should be roomy enough. I'd be interested to know how other people find this idea works out. I had an unpleasant experience in Wicklow with friends a few years ago, when we were camping in a tent and came back to find both cars totally destroyed. It was just savage vandalism, nothing at all was taken. Makes me nervous about sleeping by the roadside, at least you can hike off into the wilderness with a tent. Scumbags and evildoers in general don't seem to enjoy the wilderness and are less likely to bother you there.


  • Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,074 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Hi,
    Crashed my car before Christmas, bought a Renault Kangoo partly for the van-camping (Vamping? Vanping?) potential. I'm not very tall, so it should be roomy enough. I'd be interested to know how other people find this idea works out. I had an unpleasant experience in Wicklow with friends a few years ago, when we were camping in a tent and came back to find both cars totally destroyed. It was just savage vandalism, nothing at all was taken. Makes me nervous about sleeping by the roadside, at least you can hike off into the wilderness with a tent. Scumbags and evildoers in general don't seem to enjoy the wilderness and are less likely to bother you there.

    They're less likely to trash your van if you're inside it too. I wouldn't park up on a main road anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Finnt


    I've done it a couple of times in my old van never any hassle, however apparently if you have any drink the guards can breathalyse you and do you if your over.
    Something to do with been under control of a vechicle...


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,971 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Finnt wrote: »
    I've done it a couple of times in my old van never any hassle, however apparently if you have any drink the guards can breathalyse you and do you if your over.
    Something to do with been under control of a vechicle...
    Yeah, I've heard that the trick is to stash the keys somewhere outside the vehicle, so they are not in your possession.

    Not your ornery onager



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    I know a guy who's been pulled in the north for sleeping in his van, something to do with insufficient ventilation for occupants and fuel tank ventilation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Finnt wrote: »
    I've done it a couple of times in my old van never any hassle, however apparently if you have any drink the guards can breathalyse you and do you if your over.
    Something to do with been under control of a vechicle...


    just don't have the keys in the ignition.. they'd be fine in the glove box ...
    in order to be prosecuted for drunk in charge of the vehicle you have to be able to prove the intention to drive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,971 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    opti76 wrote: »
    just don't have the keys in the ignition.. they'd be fine in the glove box ...
    in order to be prosecuted for drunk in charge of the vehicle you have to be able to prove the intention to drive.
    I thought that having the keys available anywhere in the vehicle is enough to get done?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Finnt


    Esel wrote: »
    I thought that having the keys available anywhere in the vehicle is enough to get done?
    So did I TBH, personally I wouldn't chance it, surely meet a sneaky guard!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,889 ✭✭✭feck sake lads


    why not just go to a campsite with a good pop up tent rest easy for the night , i meet a guy in france who done exactly that ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭bohsboy


    Have a search for "stealth parking". Good tips on where to park and how to do it safely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Esel wrote: »
    I thought that having the keys available anywhere in the vehicle is enough to get done?

    50.—(1) In this section “unfit to drive” means under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

    (2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.

    (3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction, in the case of a first offence, to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds or at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding one month or to both such fine and such imprisonment and, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

    (4) In a prosecution for an offence under this section, it shall be presumed, until the defendant shows—

    (a) that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the mechanically propelled vehicle so long as he remained unfit to drive, and

    (b) that between his becoming unfit to drive and the material time he had not driven the mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place,

    that he intended to drive or attempt to drive the mechanically propelled vehicle.


    (5) A person liable to be charged with an offence under this section shall not, by reference to the same occurrence, be liable to be charged under section 12 of the Licensing Act, 1872, with the offence of being drunk while in charge, on a highway or other public place, of a carriage.

    (6) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that a person is committing or has committed an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.

    (7) Where a person convicted of an offence under this section has been previously convicted of an offence under section 49 of this Act or under section 30 of the repealed Act, he shall be treated for the purposes of this section as having been previously convicted of an offence under this section.

    you have to prove the intention to drive ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,971 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    opti76 wrote: »
    50.—(1) In this section “unfit to drive” means under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

    (2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.

    (3) A person who is guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary conviction, in the case of a first offence, to a fine not exceeding twenty pounds or at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding one month or to both such fine and such imprisonment and, in the case of a second or any subsequent offence, to a fine not exceeding fifty pounds or, at the discretion of the court, to imprisonment for any term not exceeding three months or to both such fine and such imprisonment.

    (4) In a prosecution for an offence under this section, it shall be presumed, until the defendant shows—

    (a) that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the mechanically propelled vehicle so long as he remained unfit to drive, and

    (b) that between his becoming unfit to drive and the material time he had not driven the mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place,

    that he intended to drive or attempt to drive the mechanically propelled vehicle.


    (5) A person liable to be charged with an offence under this section shall not, by reference to the same occurrence, be liable to be charged under section 12 of the Licensing Act, 1872, with the offence of being drunk while in charge, on a highway or other public place, of a carriage.

    (6) Where a member of the Garda Síochána is of opinion that a person is committing or has committed an offence under this section, he may arrest the person without warrant.

    (7) Where a person convicted of an offence under this section has been previously convicted of an offence under section 49 of this Act or under section 30 of the repealed Act, he shall be treated for the purposes of this section as having been previously convicted of an offence under this section.

    you have to prove the intention to drive ...
    Thanks for that.

    Two questions on the above:

    1. Would telling the judge that the keys were in the glove box (where, it could be argued, they are as accessible as in a pocket) be enough under (4) (a) above?

    2. Per (5), could a garda charge you under section 12 of the Licensing Act, 1872 instead?

    What Act are you quoting from, btw?

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Esel wrote: »
    Thanks for that.

    Two questions on the above:

    1. Would telling the judge that the keys were in the glove box (where, it could be argued, they are as accessible as in a pocket) be enough under (4) (a) above?

    2. Per (5), could a garda charge you under section 12 of the Licensing Act, 1872 instead?

    What Act are you quoting from, btw?

    1. the garda has to prove your intention to drive ... you dont have to prove your intention not to drive .. so keys in glove box you sleeping in the back you'l be fine.

    2 i wouldnt think so..
    the act is the road traffic act ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    opti76 wrote: »
    1. the garda has to prove your intention to drive ... you dont have to prove your intention not to drive .. so keys in glove box you sleeping in the back you'l be fine.

    Opti, the legislation actually says the exactly opposite, that it is presumed that the defendant had or intended to drive until the defendant can show otherwise. The Garda does not have to prove your intention to drive; you have to prove your intention not to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Donny5 wrote: »
    Opti, the legislation actually says the exactly opposite, that it is presumed that the defendant had or intended to drive until the defendant can show otherwise. The Garda does not have to prove your intention to drive; you have to prove your intention not to.
    im a serving garda.. i have to prove your intention to drive ...innocent till proven guilty .. .. keys in the glove box you'l be fine ..

    point (2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    opti76 wrote: »
    Donny5 wrote: »
    Opti, the legislation actually says the exactly opposite, that it is presumed that the defendant had or intended to drive until the defendant can show otherwise. The Garda does not have to prove your intention to drive; you have to prove your intention not to.
    im a serving garda.. i have to prove your intention to drive ...innocent till proven guilty .. .. keys in the glove box you'l be fine ..

    point (2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.

    The "I'm a serving Garda" routine is a classic appeal to authority and bull****. We've all met Gardaí with just the most rudimentary grasp of the law, and on this issue, you are one of them.

    If you quote the read the relevant act posted above, you can free yourself from your confusion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Donny5 wrote: »
    The "I'm a serving Garda" routine is a classic appeal to authority and bull****. We've all met Gardaí with just the most rudimentary grasp of the law, and on this issue, you are one of them.

    If you quote the read the relevant act posted above, you can free yourself from your confusion.

    im only trying to help .. as a garda i have to prove your intention to drive in regards to drunk in charge of a vehicle legislation .. you can believe me or you can chose not to. im not going to lose any sleep over it.
    i understand the legislation im not sure you do to be honest but sure as i said i was only trying to help...


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.

    ok donny read it again ....

    do you have the intent to drive with the keys in the glove box??? simple question?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    opti76 wrote: »
    2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.

    ok donny read it again ....

    do you have the intent to drive with the keys in the glove box??? simple question?

    In the very same Section of the Road Traffic Act, it says:
    (4) In a prosecution for an offence under this section, it shall be presumed, until the defendant shows—


    (a) that at the material time the circumstances were such that there was no likelihood of his driving the mechanically propelled vehicle so long as he remained unfit to drive, and


    (b) that between his becoming unfit to drive and the material time he had not driven the mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place,


    that he intended to drive or attempt to drive the mechanically propelled vehicle.

    There you go. The defendant must show that he did not intend to drive, or it is presumed that he or she did.

    For the sake of my faith in the Gardaí, I'm going to assume you're just pretending to be a member.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    again we'l return to the original question .. placing the keys in the glove box ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    cmon donny you'l get there eventually .. if i place the keys on the glove box what do i do???


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Donny5 wrote: »
    Opti, the legislation actually says the exactly opposite, that it is presumed that the defendant had or intended to drive until the defendant can show otherwise. The Garda does not have to prove your intention to drive; you have to prove your intention not to.
    so if i put they keys in the glove box ????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    opti76 wrote: »
    1. the garda has to prove your intention to drive ... you dont have to prove your intention not to drive .. so keys in glove box you sleeping in the back you'l be fine.
    opti76 wrote: »
    im a serving garda.. i have to prove your intention to drive ...innocent till proven guilty .. .. keys in the glove box you'l be fine ..
    opti76 wrote: »
    as a garda i have to prove your intention to drive in regards to drunk in charge of a vehicle legislation

    Sound familiar, opti? That's what you said and that's the exact opposite of the law. Maybe you wouldn't arrest someone who placed the keys in the glove box if you were a Garda, but that doesn't mean you can't be arrested for it. So please refrain from giving advice about a topic on which you are so clearly ignorant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭opti76


    Donny5 wrote: »
    Sound familiar, opti? That's what you said and that's the exact opposite of the law. Maybe you wouldn't arrest someone who placed the keys in the glove box if you were a Garda, but that doesn't mean you can't be arrested for it. So please refrain from giving advice about a topic on which you are so clearly ignorant.

    so your saying im guilty till proven innocent .... bollox... i know for a fact there's case law on this but dont have access to it till i return to work ...

    keys in the glove box.. away from they can be put in the igntion.. you sleeping in the back .. you wont be arrested for section 50 rta ..


  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭kieranfitz


    To get slightly back on topic after the drink issue, I reccomend having some sort of lining in the van. Plywood should do, sleeping on the bare mettle will suck the heat out of you.


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