Attack on female Garda in Dublin

Random · 21-06-2009 4:36pm

People saying you should jump in to stop a fight. Personally I think this is a stupid generalisation. Each situation needs to be judged on it's own merits and if someone is getting attacked the best thing for you to do might be to get help rather than intervene and have 2 of you badly injured. It's also hard sometimes to actually know who the bad guy is and who the good guy is - just because they have the upper hand you may not be doing the right thing. You may hold the wrong guy down and make things a lot worse.

As for jumping in to help a garda, well that's different. In this situation you can assume that the garda is the "good guy" so I'd be more inclined to do it. I don't know how this happened on a busy street and no one jumped in to help the garda (I'm not saying female garda .. honestly, she's female .. who cares.. ) who was clearly (from what I read) getting their ass kicked says a lot about people these days. Either there's no respect for the Gardai, there's a fear of the consequences of getting involved, or a fear to get your own ass kicked.

I don't know if it's right to just blame all the passers by .. but at the same time .. you wonder.

Without knowing the full circumstances (and by this I mean actually seeing how the whole thing looked at the time - I'd be interested to see the video footage) it's hard to truly judge what should have been done and when.

I guess my main concern here is - Aston Quay .. right bang in Dublin City Centre .. where the hell was the backup?

Latchy · 21-06-2009 4:48pm

Think of the Irony here folks ,somebody jumps you and cause serious injury to you ,you would like to think that somebody will assist you and the gaurds will turn up and either apprehend the culprits or at least take details of the attack .

I suspect in a lot of cases ,many people might just dust themselfs down and either head home or go to the local hospital without the attack being repoted and put on police file .

How many people over the years have being attacked in our towns and citys without it being reported ? Hundreds ? Thousends ?

Food for thought .

Terrontress · 21-06-2009 5:40pm

My view in this is that the Garda is, or should be, the expert and if he or she is unable to take control of the situation, I would not get involved. I wouldn't want to get a broken nose to do the job that the state is paid to do.

If it is unsafe for a Garda to patrol on their own or the individual is not up to the task then they should not be sent out on their own. And as pointed out above, there should have been backup close at hand.

I'd be more inclined to help a lone female than a lone female Garda as the lone female Garda has a baton, self-defence training and a radio.

21-06-2009 5:56pm

FFS, where was back-up?

It was obviously close by if the three attackers were ARRESTED. We don't tail members when they are on the beat on the off-chance that they get attacked.

Random · 21-06-2009 5:59pm

You make a fair point foreign. I guess by backup I also mean the single person patrol etc.

Terrontress · 21-06-2009 6:08pm

If anyone saw an electrician dealing with a life threatening situation with the DART lines would they jump in and start grappling with wires because they know how to change a plug?

Given that this Garda was bitten in the face, if I heard of someone getting involved off the side of the road, they got bitten, had to get AIDS tests etc. I'd feel they should have known better than to have jumped in.

civdef · 21-06-2009 6:29pm

When the public feel that maintaining law and order is the exclusive duty of the police, and that they have no role to play, we're screwed.

To quote the seventh of Robert Peel's 9 Principles (1829):

Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence

Hope the officer recovers fully and soon.

Sully · 21-06-2009 6:49pm

civdef wrote: »

Hope the officer recovers fully and soon.

She probably wont, but I would hope she returns to work and shows the scumbags that she wont remain knocked down.

Manic Moran · 21-06-2009 6:55pm

I think Peel's principles have been waylayed by the legal system.

Bad enough standing there watching it and doing absolute nothing about it. But recording it? Lowlives!

Beats standing there and not recording it. At least there's video evidence for the court case.

There's also the Genovese effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect. The more people witness something, the less likely anyone is going to intervene.

I'd like to think I'd step in, but I consider myself one of the sheepdogs in the analogy. Blissfull ignorance, and 'it's not my department' seems to be the rule of the day now.

NTM

Terrontress · 21-06-2009 7:06pm

civdef wrote: »

When the public feel that maintaining law and order is the exclusive duty of the police, and that they have no role to play, we're screwed.

To quote the seventh of Robert Peel's 9 Principles (1829):

Hope the officer recovers fully and soon.

I think I would have taken a very active role. I would have actively discouraged others from getting involved, made a 999 call and made note of pertinent information for any future legal case and most importantly, would have been disgusted by the actions of the criminals.

Just because someone does not rush in to such a situation gung ho, fists flying, does not mean that they are not playing a role.

mike kelly · 21-06-2009 7:18pm

I think that female gardai are absolutely useless.

only men should be hired as guards.

seanybiker · 21-06-2009 7:21pm

I cant believe people just stood there looking at it. I be in like a bullet. I go everywhere on me bike so always have a helmet to swing at someone

Hooch · 21-06-2009 7:37pm

mike kelly wrote: »

I think that female gardai are absolutely useless.

only men should be hired as guards.

Silly narrow minded statement IMO

Terrontress · 21-06-2009 7:57pm

seanybiker wrote: »

I cant believe people just stood there looking at it. I be in like a bullet. I go everywhere on me bike so always have a helmet to swing at someone

And you connect with someone in the stomach. They fall over, crack their head off the pavement and the next thing you know, you're up for manslaughter of a 17 year girl who despite the fact she has just bitten a cop in the face is portrayed in the media to be a poor, troubled sole with a lovely smile who loved her mammy.

Good man.

Keep swinging that weapon.

Random · 21-06-2009 8:00pm

mike kelly wrote: »

I think that female gardai are absolutely useless.

only men should be hired as guards.

While I agree there's a number of female Gardai I've seen that don't look threatening the same could be said of some of the blokes too.

I think the problem really needs to be with deployment and that the big heavys get sent to the riots and the not so heavys don't.

I guess a lot of a Gardai's work isn't all combat though so it's about the personality / ability as well.

kravmaga · 21-06-2009 8:06pm

I hope she gets better soon, terrible attack from what I read in the Herald.

Garda Management will have to re-think patrolling alone after this incident.

From a Risk assessment point of view there is no way a female Officer should be out on her own on foot patrol in a major city.

Since the height restriction was done away with a few years back I have noticed the lack of height in the Garda on patrol in Dublin.

IMO should always be 2 Officers on patrol at all times and feck resource issues.

bigass · 21-06-2009 8:12pm

mike kelly wrote: »

I think that female gardai are absolutely useless.

only men should be hired as guards.

I have sat a read this comment for 5-10 minutes and can't for the life of me make sense out of it.
I have never measured myself against any other member. But I consider myself very good at my job, just as good as the next women or man and I am still learning and extremely dedicated.

For you to pass a remark like that shows the lack of brains you have, ignorant person .

Must dash kitchen sink is waiting!!!

helimachoptor · 21-06-2009 8:18pm

bigass wrote: »

I have sat a read this comment for 5-10 minutes and can't for the life of me make sense out of it.

Yeah me too

I was chatting to my friend about this. Its something she's worried about. She's had a couple of "near misses" where things could have gotten out of control but back up arrived in time.

And the thing is these scumbags will probably get a slap on the wrist. Shameful justice system.

bigass · 21-06-2009 8:23pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

Yeah me too

I was chatting to my friend about this. Its something she's worried about. She's had a couple of "near misses" where things could have gotten out of control but back up arrived in time.

And the thing is these scumbags will probably get a slap on the wrist. Shameful justice system.

No matter who you are, there is always someone out there that can over power you woman or man.

Amalgam · 21-06-2009 8:32pm

One person biting another person is pretty low.. can they heap on extra charges because of that, risk of infection, hepatitis etc?

I loathe this carry on of an attacker recording another person's misery, usually with a mobile phone. This habit really does frame a scummer's peculiar outlook on life and how they perceive other people around them.

the locust · 21-06-2009 8:35pm

I'm 6ft2 and i'd be very cautious when out on my own and feel very vulnerable at times.
Perhaps if Gardai had the sprays by now (and other kit not meaning to start another thread already discussed!) ... incidents like this and others could be avoided. Absolutely awful.

helimachoptor · 21-06-2009 8:37pm

the locust wrote: »

I'm 6ft2 and i'd be very cautious when out on my own and feel very vulnerable at times.
Perhaps if Gardai had the sprays by now (and other kit not meaning to start another thread already discussed!) ... incidents like this and others could be avoided. Absolutely awful.

Would agree with that, I think in close quarters spray is a lot better as the ASP may not be deployable especially if your in a physical struggle.

Zambia · 21-06-2009 10:55pm

Terrontress wrote: »

And you connect with someone in the stomach. They fall over, crack their head off the pavement and the next thing you know, you're up for manslaughter of a 17 year girl who despite the fact she has just bitten a cop in the face is portrayed in the media to be a poor, troubled sole with a lovely smile who loved her mammy.

Good man.

Keep swinging that weapon.

Your earlier post made sense ,being that you would call the Gardai

Then the stopping other people from intervening, why go that far granted you have assessed your capabilities and helped out as best you feel you can but let others assess their capabilities and help out as best they can.

In all cases if the force on another you use to prevent injury or further injury to another person is reasonable and proprotionate. The fear of being or charged is unfounded IMHO. I agree the bike helmet is little a bit much , a good shove would suffice, then run away. I am not staying the public should have made an arrest but ffs stop the attack.

Zambia · 21-06-2009 10:58pm

helimachoptor wrote: »

Would agree with that, I think in close quarters spray is a lot better as the ASP may not be deployable especially if your in a physical struggle.

You dont have to extend it, next time you have a willing victim stab the closed asp into the thigh perenial nerve or the anywhere on the thigh...

Terrontress · 22-06-2009 7:39am

Zambia232 wrote: »

Your earlier post made sense ,being that you would call the Gardai

Then the stopping other people from intervening, why go that far granted you have assessed your capabilities and helped out as best you feel you can but let others assess their capabilities and help out as best they can.

In all cases if the force on another you use to prevent injury or further injury to another person is reasonable and proprotionate. The fear of being or charged is unfounded IMHO. I agree the bike helmet is little a bit much , a good shove would suffice, then run away. I am not staying the public should have made an arrest but ffs stop the attack.

The talk of motorbike helmets and having a go is as stupid as the post about women not being up to the task?

Why? Training.

Gardai receive specialist training to deal with these situations that the rest of us don't have and that is what should take over in these situations. You will find in nearly every emergency situation that a trained emergency service operative will approach it differently to the man on the street.

I think people on here saying they'd jump in is macho thoughts. The poor wee girl needs a hand from big strong me.

Not the case. She is a trained police officer and the people wanting to jump in are wannabes. It may work once, twice but it needs to be discouraged as someone will get hurt really badly and it will do the reputation of AGS no end of harm and will lead to a well wisher in a hospital bed or worse. WITHOUT the medical insurance, support structure, death on duty benefits of a member.

Leave the heroics to those trained for it.

Trojan911 · 22-06-2009 8:23am

Terrontress wrote: »

The talk of motorbike helmets and having a go is as stupid as the post about women not being up to the task?

Why? Training.

Gardai receive specialist training to deal with these situations that the rest of us don't have and that is what should take over in these situations. You will find in nearly every emergency situation that a trained emergency service operative will approach it differently to the man on the street.

I think people on here saying they'd jump in is macho thoughts. The poor wee girl needs a hand from big strong me.

Not the case. She is a trained police officer and the people wanting to jump in are wannabes. It may work once, twice but it needs to be discouraged as someone will get hurt really badly and it will do the reputation of AGS no end of harm and will lead to a well wisher in a hospital bed or worse. WITHOUT the medical insurance, support structure, death on duty benefits of a member.

Leave the heroics to those trained for it.

First paragraph is accurate the rest is nonsense.

Police officers are just as vulnerable as the rest of us, thus the reason this thread was started in the first place...

Zambia · 22-06-2009 8:32am

Terrontress wrote: »

The talk of motorbike helmets and having a go is as stupid as the post about women not being up to the task?

Why? Training.

Gardai receive specialist training to deal with these situations that the rest of us don't have and that is what should take over in these situations. You will find in nearly every emergency situation that a trained emergency service operative will approach it differently to the man on the street.

I think people on here saying they'd jump in is macho thoughts. The poor wee girl needs a hand from big strong me.

Not the case. She is a trained police officer and the people wanting to jump in are wannabes. It may work once, twice but it needs to be discouraged as someone will get hurt really badly and it will do the reputation of AGS no end of harm and will lead to a well wisher in a hospital bed or worse. WITHOUT the medical insurance, support structure, death on duty benefits of a member.

Leave the heroics to those trained for it.

So in essence you are saying the following nobody should do anything to help another person unless they are trained and paid to do it?

What you call heroics I would call a basic duty of care to another person.

I find your attitude the very like the comment from the knacker

"She is a pig she deserves it " or
"She was trained for this"

In most cases the garda need no assistance from the public and you are right in saying in those cases the public should move on. But if as a sensible person you see a clear cut case of a Garda about to cop a serious beating as was the case here I don't see why anyone that could possibly help wouldn't.

Ask any member if they found themselves alone on the ground and having OcConnell St's finest raining kick and blows on them. Would they like assistance or only assistance from a trained proffessional.

I am not adovocate He-man or he-girl behavoir here just not doing nothing.

itsallaboutme!! · 22-06-2009 9:20am

Terrontress wrote: »

The talk of motorbike helmets and having a go is as stupid as the post about women not being up to the task?

Why? Training.

Gardai receive specialist training to deal with these situations that the rest of us don't have and that is what should take over in these situations. You will find in nearly every emergency situation that a trained emergency service operative will approach it differently to the man on the street.

I think people on here saying they'd jump in is macho thoughts. The poor wee girl needs a hand from big strong me.

Not the case. She is a trained police officer and the people wanting to jump in are wannabes. It may work once, twice but it needs to be discouraged as someone will get hurt really badly and it will do the reputation of AGS no end of harm and will lead to a well wisher in a hospital bed or worse. WITHOUT the medical insurance, support structure, death on duty benefits of a member.

Leave the heroics to those trained for it.

Wow!!!!!!
how would you feel if that member had been one of your relatives and someone made a comment like that to you.
Sorry i didnt help her out but i dont have the death on duty benefit that she has!!!!!!

itsallaboutme!! · 22-06-2009 9:25am

mike kelly wrote: »

I think that female gardai are absolutely useless.

only men should be hired as guards.

so if say you find someone breaking into your home or are (god forbid) in some bother and getting a hiding yourself and a female garda arrives on scene to help you out are you going to tell her no your alright ill wait on a male garda because your useless!!!!:rolleyes:

helimachoptor · 22-06-2009 9:28am

Terrontress wrote: »

The talk of motorbike helmets and having a go is as stupid as the post about women not being up to the task?

Why? Training.

Gardai receive specialist training to deal with these situations that the rest of us don't have and that is what should take over in these situations. You will find in nearly every emergency situation that a trained emergency service operative will approach it differently to the man on the street.

I think people on here saying they'd jump in is macho thoughts. The poor wee girl needs a hand from big strong me.

Not the case. She is a trained police officer and the people wanting to jump in are wannabes. It may work once, twice but it needs to be discouraged as someone will get hurt really badly and it will do the reputation of AGS no end of harm and will lead to a well wisher in a hospital bed or worse. WITHOUT the medical insurance, support structure, death on duty benefits of a member.

Leave the heroics to those trained for it.

I'd jump in if a male gardai was getting his ass kicked too.
No sexism here folks.. keep on moving.

Attack on female Garda in Dublin

Comments