prime Vitali Klitschko VS prime George Foreman ('72-'74)

RiseToTheTop · 22-02-2012 6:31pm #1

Who takes this IYO. I reckon George wins by knockout around the 7th round.

(BTW, I ranked George in his "prime" in regards to his career. He was a different boxer after his loss to Ali.)

sxt · 22-02-2012 8:30pm

Why do you feel Foreman would ko Vitali in the 7th?

Do you think Vitali's size , power, technique and chin doesn't amount to much against a much smaller, slower man, with a cruder technique from the 70's ?

What do you think would be the result between David Haye and George Foreman?

cowzerp · 22-02-2012 8:45pm

sxt wrote: »

What do you think would be the result between David Haye and George Foreman?

1st round ko for George v Haye, no doubt

walshb · 22-02-2012 9:08pm

Prime Foreman was probably the most physically strong HW champ ever. Powerful, heavy handed, very good chin and a killer. Now, prime Klit was big, strong, clever and very tough.

Great match. If George is patient and not over eager, then he wins this on points. If he is gung ho and non stop looking for the KO, he could lose.

Here's the thing: As heavy handed as he was, George's delivery speed wasn't what is needed to KO Klit with one shot. George had cumulative power

Klit's chin is good enough to take the shots I feel. But, George threw a lot of leather, and was very aggressive. Can Klit land enough, and heavy enough to deter and beat George? I don't think he can, and loses on points most times.

Wlad gets blasted within 3 rds. If a Brewster and Sanders can do him, then Foreman will murder him.

tryingmybestt · 22-02-2012 9:13pm

Vitalis chin has never been tested too much besides a past peak lewis

foreman has great 1 punch ko power, one of the best punchers of all time

i see foreman getting an early ko or winning on points

foreman had a great chin and i'd even pick the older version of foreman from the 90's to beat the klitschko's

his cross arm defence would be useful and he would walk them down, take their shots and land his bombs to ko them

vlad would **** his pants and die of fear before the first bell

Littlehorny · 22-02-2012 9:16pm

As Ali showed, speed of foot, speed of hand and good defence were the only way to beat Foreman. Ali let Foreman beat himself and Klitschko does not possess these tools. Foreman all the way for me !

RXMPS · 22-02-2012 9:26pm

Yeah I was thinking something along those lines Walshb. Vitali has that extra bit of Boxing ability on the outside to make it very hard for Foreman, yet Vitali was hittable, Lewis had no problems, either did Sanders or Chris Byrd getting to his chin.

It's a tough one as Foreman got outboxed by lesser boxers in his career.So it could go either way.

Vitali would lose I think, because when Vitali gets tagged he just leans back and away and refuses to engage.Is Foreman good enough and fast enough to tag him, I don't know.Lewis was a much better boxer than Foreman, but not as good a chin.

I would fancy an 86 Tyson to give Vitali an even tougher match, he had the skills, the speed and the power to crack Vitali's chin.

If anyone in history could get inside Vitali's jab and reach, its an 86 Tyson.He was designed to get inside tall men, Vitali never faced a guy like him.

walshb · 22-02-2012 9:33pm

Completely with you ref Tyson. Of all the champs, it is a 1986 Tyson that for me is Vit's kryptonite.

Other thing to consider here is George's excellent talent at cutting off the ring. Vitali will be forced to engage quite a lot, either that, or hold and spoil and try to stop George attacking. I do not see Vit landing clea enough and heavy enough to stop Georges advances. George gets to Vit easier than he gets to Ali. And, he got to Ali a hell of a lot.

Also, let us look at a prime Klit vs a faded Lewis. Klit was fairly tired after 6 rds here, vs. a Lewis who landed, but not as much as I see Foreman landing. And, Foreman will be a lot more aggressive and pushing the pace more than Lewis was. It's swinging to Foreman more and more for me the more I analyse it.

sxt · 22-02-2012 9:36pm

Littlehorny wrote: »

As Ali showed, speed of foot, speed of hand and good defence were the only way to beat Foreman. Ali let Foreman beat himself and Klitschko does not possess these tools. Foreman all the way for me !

Ali had zero footwork speed , and very little defense especially in the closing rounds against Foreman , Ali stood completely staitionary for the second half of the fight , and allowed foreman to let loose with all of his big punches. He banked on his overall stamina to prevail in the end and it did, with an epic finish!

walshb · 22-02-2012 9:38pm

sxt wrote: »

A past it Ali had zero footwork speed , and very little defense especially in the closing rounds against Foreman , Ali stood completely staitionary for the second half of the figtt , and allowed foreman to let loose with all of his punches. He banked on his overall stamina to prevail in the end and it did, with an epic finish!

And as I said, Formeam was amazing at stalking and cutting the ring off. Only a peak Clay/Ali (60s version) would be able to get physically away from a prime Foreman.

Littlehorny · 22-02-2012 9:46pm

sxt wrote: »

Ali had zero footwork speed , and very little defense especially in the closing rounds against Foreman , Ali stood completely staitionary for the second half of the fight , and allowed foreman to let loose with all of his big punches. He banked on his overall stamina to prevail in the end and it did, with an epic finish!

Because of the stiffiling heat, Ali did very little moving around but he did have a good defence that night. Foreman hit him with very few clean head shots and his pounding body shots were blocked by Alis arms mostly and if you watch the fight again you will see the power was weakening in Foremans punches by round 6 because he was punched out by Alis "rope a dope".

sxt · 22-02-2012 9:49pm

walshb wrote: »

Prime Foreman was probably the most physically strong HW champ ever. Powerful, heavy handed, very good chin and a killer. Now, prime Klit was big, strong, clever and very tough.

Great match. If George is patient and not over eager, then he wins this on points. If he is gung ho and non stop looking for the KO, he could lose.

Here's the thing: As heavy handed as he was, George's delivery speed wasn't what is needed to KO Klit with one shot. George had cumulative power

Klit's chin is good enough to take the shots I feel. But, George threw a lot of leather, and was very aggressive. Can Klit land enough, and heavy enough to deter and beat George? I don't think he can, and loses on points most times.

Wlad gets blasted within 3 rds. If a Brewster and Sanders can do him, then Foreman will murder him.

Foreman in his prime . Couldn't knock out a slow, dead on his feet, past it Ali .Ali let himself be a punching bag for a prime foreman , in order to out stamina him .Theywere his exact tactics! .Foreman swung widely like a bar fighter and missed with alot of his shots. Do you think Vitali would waste shots, or would not be clinical with his shots?

and you dont think a more athletic , stronger , fitter , faster,30 ilbs heaver!, 4 inches taller, technically better boxer with and a better chin?, would not have the tactics to beat a slug it out fighter from the 70's

walshb · 22-02-2012 10:01pm

sxt wrote: »

and you dont think a more athletic , stronger , fitter , 30 ilbs heaver, technically better boxer with and a better chin?, couldn't beat a slug it out fighter from the 70's

Are these comparisons to George or Ali?

Because, I strongly debate more athletic, stronger, and fitter, and better chin, and even technical.

How is Vit more athletic? Could he perform a floor routine better, the triple jump, pole vault? It is boxing, and sorry, but I have seen nothing from Klit to be able to come to this conclusion. Not saying Foreman is more athletic, but how can you say Vitali is with such confidence?

Vit was out on his feet after 6 rds vs. a faded Lewis. Foreman brings a whole lot more pace, pressure and volume than that Lewis.

Stamina? Is this based off ONE fight in Zaire where temps were very high and George power punched non stop for 8 rds?

sxt · 22-02-2012 10:49pm

walshb wrote: »

Are these comparisons to George or Ali?

Because, I strongly debate more athletic, stronger, and fitter, and better chin, and even technical.

How is Vit more athletic? Could he perform a floor routine better, the triple jump, pole vault? It is boxing, and sorry, but I have seen nothing from Klit to be able to come to this conclusion. Not saying Freman is more athletic, but how can you say Vitali is with such confidence?

Vit was out on his feet after 6 rds vs. a faded Lewis. Foreman brings a whole lot more pace, pressure and volume than that Lewis.

Stamina? Is this based off ONE fight in Zaire where temps were very high and George power punched non stop for 8 rds?

Vitali is losing litres of blood and is fighting blind in one eye against Lewis , who is much more clinical and just as powerful puncher as a small smaller Foreman?

How was Vitali s a better athelte than Foreman? he was streets ahead of Foreman as an athelte in every department. Foreman was never considered athlethic , even in his era .

Every advantage is Vitali's .

Foreman is not going to be able to slug it out with some one 40 years into the future with light years better boxing technique ( learnt from the greats) , 4 inches taller , 30ilbs of Muscle heavier , faster , stronger ,much longer reach, better stamina , and a very proven chin! Not only all these atttributes , he is a champion with a champion , never say dies spirit like all the greats!

walshb · 22-02-2012 10:55pm

sxt wrote: »

Vitali is losing litres of blood and is fighting blind in one eye against Lewis , who is much more clinical and just as powerful puncher as a small smaller Foreman?

How was Vitali s a better athelte than Foreman? he was streets ahead of Foreman as an athelte in every department. Foreman was never considered athlethic , even in his era .

Every advantage is Vitali's .

Foreman is not going to be able to slug it out with some with light years better boxing technique , 4 inches taller , 30ilbs heavier , faster , stronger ,much longer reach, ring leadsership , better stamina , and a proven chin!

You simply saying Vitali was more athletic does not make it so. I just cannot find any evidence to back it up.

Like: If I said that PBF was more an athletic boxer than Alexis Arguello, yes, that seems accurate and true from looking at their skills and traits inside the ring.

If I said Clay/Ali was more athletic than Jess Willard, I can back it up with video footage that is clear.

RJJ more athletic than Steve Collins is another clear example.

Please, show me inside a ring where Vit is more athletic? Vit's feet aren't great, speed is quite average, coordination is no better or worse than Foreman. Balance is no better or worse. His punch variation is IMO not as good as Foreman's.

So, list these departments you speak of and we can discuss. Just saying it is pretty vague and far from convincing.

Balance, speed, feet, coordination, fluidity, on the front foot, on the back foot etc. These are area we could discuss, no?

And, again, how is Vit's stamina better? You cannot claim this simply because after 8 rds of power punching in Zaire, Foreman gor dropped and stopped vs. Ali, who had been hitting him flush and clean consistently.

I assume the claim is based off this one fight in Zaire?

Ok, then how about Vit out on his feet after 6 rds against a faded Lewis?

cowzerp · 22-02-2012 11:05pm

walshb wrote: »

Ok, then how about Vit out on his feet after 6 rds against a faded Lewis?

he wasn't though! Lewis was

RiseToTheTop · 22-02-2012 11:06pm

@sxt: Vitali was lising litres of blood? WTH, the body only has 5 litres of body.

Regards Haye VS Foreman, I can only see Foreman winning. Haye's only chance would be landing flush on Foreman's chin and seeing if Foreman goes wobbly. But I think Foreman would have him out of the ring before that.

sxt · 22-02-2012 11:07pm

walshb wrote: »

You simply saying Vitali was more athletic does not make it so. I just cannot find any evidence to back it up.

Like: If I said that PBF was more an athletic boxer than Alexis Arguello, yes, that seems accurate and true from looking at their skills and traits inside the ring.

If I said Clay/Ali was more athletic than Jess Willard, I can back it up with video footage that is clear.

RJJ more athletic than Steve Collins is another clear example.

Please, show me inside a ring where Vit is more athletic? Vit's feet aren't great, speed is quite average, coordination is no better or worse than Foreman. Balance is no better or worse. His punch variation is IMO not as good as Foreman's.

So, list these departments you speak of and we can discuss. Just saying it is pretty vague and far from convincing.

Balance, speed, feet, coordination, fluidity, on the front foot, on the back foot etc. These are area we could discuss, no?

And, again, how is Vit's stamina better? You cannot claim this simply because after 8 rds of power punching in Zaire, Foreman gor dropped and stopped vs. Ali, who had been hitting him flush and clean consistently.

I assume the claim is based off this one fight in Zaire?

Ok, then how about Vit out on his feet after 6 rds against a faded Lewis?

Vitali was taking alot of perfect brutal shots from Lewis , that would have knocked out most men!, Vitali could not see them punches too well as he had a seriously bad eye wound! , causing his eye to be badly swollen and blood streaming into his left eye... He was a sitting duck for punishment and he took it!

walshb · 22-02-2012 11:10pm

cowzerp wrote: »

he wasn't though! Lewis was

Well, some dispute that and say Vit was. I say BOTH were. Vit was far from fresh, as only expected. The video to me shows BOTH men pretty tired, and close to exhaustion.

My point is that I would like the poster to show me how Vit was somehow fitter than George? He has not done this.

BTW, who do you think wins? I know both men are favourties of yours.

I see George winning most times, but not easily.

walshb · 22-02-2012 11:11pm

sxt wrote: »

Vitali was taking alot of perfect brutal shots from Lewis , that would have knocked out most men!, Vitali could not see them punches too well as he had a seriously bad eye wound! , causing his eye to be badly swollen and blood streaming into his left eye... He was a sitting duck for punishment and he took it!

Ok, but that answers nothing. I never disputed that he was not tough, could not take a shot etc.

I want to know why Vitali is somehow fitter than George?

sxt · 22-02-2012 11:13pm

walshb wrote: »

Well, some dispute that and say Vit was. I say BOTH were. Vit was far from fresh, as only expected. The video to me shows BOTH men pretty tired, and close to exhaustion.

My point is that I would like the poster to show me how Vit was somehow fitter than George? He has not done this.

.

Foreman in his prime couldn't last the pace against a past it fighter who just stood there , not bothering to move and make it difficult , just stood still and let himself be used as a human punching bag...

Foreman was used to knocking people oput in 1 or 2 rounds etc

walshb · 22-02-2012 11:15pm

sxt wrote: »

He couldn't last the pace against a fighter who just stood there , not bothering to move and make it difficult...

What fight were you watching? Ali speared George throughout that fight. Foreman threw dozens and dozens of power shots in that fight.

Ali just stood there?

BTW, Ali was pretty tired too.

So, you are basing it on this ONE single fight then?

runboyrun · 22-02-2012 11:17pm

sxt wrote: »

,much longer reach, ![/B]

you're blinded with your misguided love for vitali

foreman had a longer reach than vitali

ypur loosely making wild statements without any back up

sxt · 22-02-2012 11:19pm

runboyrun wrote: »

you're blinded with your misguided love for vitali

foreman had a longer reach than vitali

ypur loosely making wild statements without any back up

No, your blinded with your misguided hate of Vitali.

Vitali is significantly taller than foreman and has a much longer reach as a consequence!

walshb · 22-02-2012 11:20pm

sxt wrote: »

Foreman in his prime couldn't last the pace against a past it fighter who just stood there , not bothering to move and make it difficult , just stood still and let himself be used as a human punching bag...

Foreman was used to knocking people oput in 1 or 2 rounds etc

Yes, he was used to KOing in a few rds. But, he also could go ten rds, as his fast paced and tough fight with Peralta showed. That was a very gruelling contest that George went hell for leather in and won.

George's issue in the 70s was his pacing/tactics/hell for leather approach. And, I clearly said that if he went gung ho for Klit, he could lose. But, you claiming flat out that Vit is fitter needs evidence, analysing and debate. It is not at all clear that EITHER man is fitter.

runboyrun · 22-02-2012 11:23pm

sxt wrote: »

No, your blinded with your misguided hate of Vitali.

Vitali is significantly taller than foreman and has a much longer reach as a consequence!

vitali has a REACH of 79

Foreman has a REACH of 82

check boxrec you clown

p.s. reach = arm length and shoulder width.....nothing to do with height !!!!

sxt · 22-02-2012 11:39pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, he was used to KOing in a few rds. But, he also could go ten rds, as his fast paced and tough fight with Peralta showed. That was a very gruelling contest that George went hell for leather in and won.

George's issue in the 70s was his pacing/tactics/hell for leather approach.

Yes, and those tactics would not work against a a modern boxer with the size , and technical advantage of a Vitali klitscko (these are boxing era's that have studied the greats and have improved in every way in preparation and technique)

The 70's approach to fighting would be at a major disadvantage to today...

cowzerp · 22-02-2012 11:40pm

walshb wrote: »

Well, some dispute that and say Vit was. I say BOTH were. Vit was far from fresh, as only expected. The video to me shows BOTH men pretty tired, and close to exhaustion.

My point is that I would like the poster to show me how Vit was somehow fitter than George? He has not done this.

BTW, who do you think wins? I know both men are favourties of yours.

I see George winning most times, but not easily.

Seriously tough to call, inside fight George wins, long range Vitali wins, the thing is all fights start at long range and Vitali is a master at keeping fighters there, George in part 1 of his career was not a great long range fighter

runboyrun wrote: »

vitali has a REACH of 79

Foreman has a REACH of 82

p.s. reach = arm length and shoulder width.....nothing to do with height !!!!

The height affects it as the taller mans arms are instantly closer to shorter mans head and opposite applies too.

Either way, it's how it's used and George at peak did not use his reach to much

RiseToTheTop · 22-02-2012 11:46pm

sxt, you are probably looking at the fight with Vitali being 6'8 to 6'8.5 tall. Vitali is not that height. Wladimir Klitschkos said on BBC breakfast (I posted the vid here) that he was 6'5 and there isn't much difference between him and Vitali in height.

There isn't 5 inches difference between Vitali and Foreman.

sxt · 22-02-2012 11:53pm

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

sxt, you are probably looking at the fight with Vitali being 6'8 to 6'8.5 tall. Vitali is not that height. Wladimir Klitschkos said on BBC breakfast (I posted the vid here) that he was 6'5 and there isn't much difference between him and Vitali in height.

There isn't 5 inches difference between Vitali and Foreman.

There is a significant height difference no matter what way you look at it. vitali is clealy a couple of inches bigger than his brother if you look on google images

RiseToTheTop · 22-02-2012 11:55pm

What height do you think Vitali is?

I'll tell you what height Foreman is. He was regularly quoted at 6'3.5, 6 foot 3 and half an inch.

prime Vitali Klitschko VS prime George Foreman ('72-'74)

prime Vitali VS prime Big George, who wins? 13 votes

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