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*Everything HPAT and Medicine 2012*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Mad Shark


    Paralysis wrote: »
    I find this highly unlikely - that would be an increase of 14 points, and even when the HPAT scores have increased since the previous year point's haven't jumped up 14. Realistically the max points will increase is 7 or 8, and that would only be if the 25 extra points for maths had a very significant effect and/or the calibre of applicants increased dramatically!


    I am going to stick with anywhere between 8 and 12 points increase...


  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Paralysis


    Mad Shark wrote: »
    I am going to stick with anywhere between 8 and 12 points increase...

    Why? What's your evidence, take a look at the stuff Hollingr has been saying down this thread...


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Mad Shark


    Paralysis wrote: »
    Why? What's your evidence, take a look at the stuff Hollingr has been saying down this thread...


    I did study Hollingr's posts!! and for the reasons back to back was saying i reckon it will be more than 5 points - there is a greater pool of people within the 550 LC point zone including last year's 520/525 that can add 25 points this year ... also there is an increase in oversea applicants this year as its cheaper to study here than in UK.... so its really the greater numbers in the mix that will push it up a bit more than 5 points ... its just my opnion thats all....


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭back to back


    Paralysis wrote: »
    Why? What's your evidence, take a look at the stuff Hollingr has been saying down this thread...

    i feel some people are underestimating the effect the 25 bonus maths will have.
    remember anyone who sat the lc over endless no. of years can apply this year,even if they sat the lc 20 years ago , provided they perform well in hpat. theoritically if they got 490 points in lc ,but more realistically they needed to have got 525 points.
    no of places available is 472
    no.of mature and hear places is36,that leaves 436.

    my hypothesis is:
    the minimum required is 187+555(550+hons maths)

    in 2012 hpat anyone on 192 or greater will get place ,they only need 525 +hons maths to reach 742 i.e.top 9%(92%or greater)-33each=297.places


    i estimate that approx 33%of those on hpat of 187-192will get the 530-550 points required.i.e. another 55 places.



    between 177-186 hpat one needs 551-560 +hons maths. of these 330 students i'm guessing only 10%will get this i.e. another 33 places gone

    in 2011 hpat
    if one got192 ,193,194 and got 525 .530or 535 in lc one would be competing
    " 197,198 " " 520,525 530in lc " "
    " 199,200 " "520,525 " "
    " 210 " 510,515 " "
    215 " 505,510 " "
    230 " 490,495 " "
    (students above these marks will have been accepted last year)
    in 2011 each 1% was 30 students only.
    i'm guessing,but say 2 students on each mark gets a place i.e.31#2=62


    IN TOTAL I.E. 62+33+55+297=447places gone!!!!! only 436 places available !!!! so random selection at 742 points !!!!!!!1
    i know my guessing alot but i feel i'm been very conservative on my estimation .if i'm not, the minimum points will be even higher!!!
    i hope people can tell me why i'm wrong !!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭dmca93


    I decided to post this here as I feel the majority of people posting in Medicine 2013 have yet to do the Leaving Cert.

    I did the hpat earlier this year and did not do well enough to receive a place in medicine next year, I know that and am under no illusions. What I want to know is, from peoples past experiences, what would be a good course to do while I am repeating the hpat. I'm not too concerned with opportunities to skip pre-med I'm more thinking about a course that may have other like-mined people who didn't achieve a great hpat and are repeating. This way I will be in a course with other motiviated medicine hopefuls and could possibly have some friends already if I do achieve the points for the following year.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26 tweetybird4848


    dmca93 wrote: »
    I decided to post this here as I feel the majority of people posting in Medicine 2013 have yet to do the Leaving Cert.

    I did the hpat earlier this year and did not do well enough to receive a place in medicine next year, I know that and am under no illusions. What I want to know is, from peoples past experiences, what would be a good course to do while I am repeating the hpat. I'm not too concerned with opportunities to skip pre-med I'm more thinking about a course that may have other like-mined people who didn't achieve a great hpat and are repeating. This way I will be in a course with other motiviated medicine hopefuls and could possibly have some friends already if I do achieve the points for the following year.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


    Quote: It neny!
    Ok so what if someone that REALLY wanted medicine didn't get it? Any other options for them? any courses similar? Surely its not the end of the world, right?

    (coming from a student who also wants medicine:))



    I really really want medicine And didn't get it last year which was a blow! I went into human health and disease in trinity! I would strongly recommend it, it is much more medicine related then science( which I went into at the start of the year for a month). I loved the course work and it was all very medicine related for example we did embryology and human tissue types.The class is small which i loved as everyone got to know eachother well and everyone was very close by the end of the yeat! the lecturers are lovely and look after you very well! I also repeated the hpat( the hours in first year are quite light especially in the 2nd semester which was really good for time to do hpat prep) and I hopefully will have enough points to get into medicine in trinity or ucd next year after I repeated my hpat!

    It is a horrible blow not to get medicine and took me a while to get over it once it happened but I have had a fantastic year and have made some amazing friends! After human health and disease you would be in a good postition to go into post grad medicine which works out as 8 years combined, only 2 years longer then ucd med!

    I have friends in courses like dentistry, radiation therapy, radiography, physio and speech and language therapy who originally wanted med but love their courses!!!

    Hope this helped.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 104 ✭✭dmca93



    I have friends in courses like dentistry, radiation therapy, radiography, physio and speech and language therapy who originally wanted med but love their courses!!!

    Hope this helped.

    I've actually being looking at some of those courses you mentioned at the end. Thanks, that was a big help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 175 ✭✭Queenalocin


    Has anyone heard from DARE yet?


  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭hollingr


    DrShredded wrote: »
    1. Is the social life in UCD better than in RCSI. ie. Is one college more fun than the other? People in RCSi argue that RCSI small campus makes it more intimate, but why do you hear so often about the lack of fun in RCSI...... rumours usually start for a reason.

    Well, can I start by saying socially, either college is going to be what you make of it. There are going to be people you get along with, and people you don't in both colleges.

    RCSI definitely a smaller group; smaller groups tend to get to know each other much better, which is true for any course or college.

    DrShredded wrote: »
    Is there more chance I lose contact with my school friends in RSCI than in UCD? I understand how the social life in UCD would be better for the first couple of years (greater diversity of courses and more irish students) but will this really matter after 3rd med when the only people you see are from med and most of your time is spent off campus?

    As long as you make the effort to meet up with them when you get the chance it won't be that noticeable, it's really up to you though. How close you stay to them is going to be down to your preference, some people change a fair bit in college, others don't. If you are doing medicine and all your friends are doing courses with tons of free time, the chances of drifting apart are far greater. I did engineering in TCD and completely lost touch with my school friends (they all went to UCD), but that was down to my choices on who I spent time with when I had free time, and meeting new people I had more in common with than my school friends.

    If you have friends going to TCD, it's only a short walk away if you do end up in RCSI.
    DrShredded wrote: »
    The 'Irish Society' in RCSI is worrying. Is it not weird to be in the middle of Dublin in a foreign university? Supposedly, RCSI is quite divided in terms of cultures, ie. irish stick with irish. It is argued this is no longer the case after 3rd med, but surely you mix better with people in the 'western world' because of more similarities.

    The fact that the majority are not Irish in RCSI means they are far more eager to make friends and settle into Ireland, whereas UCD is full of cliques carried over from school days.. Main feeder schools being the likes of blackrock college, mount anville etc. If you are from Dublin and are happy with more of the same from your school social life, UCD is probably the safer bet.

    The Irish will definitely stick together but that doesn't mean they don't integrate with the foreign students too. Plenty of beautiful foreign women about was never a bad thing in my eyes!

    DrShredded wrote: »
    2. Should the new students centre in UCD draw me there? Will I use it often enough for it to matter, will I use it at all after 3rd med when the work load builds.

    No idea what that is, sorry! Never heard anyone who went to UCD mention it! :p
    DrShredded wrote: »
    3. The campus in RCSI is quite small. Does this mean there are noticeably less academic facilities in RCSI an comparison to UCD? However does this really matter if I will only attend lectures there and most of a students life is spent studying in an apartment or in beaumont. Or are the academic facilities in UCD an advantage?

    RCSI actually has pretty nice facilities, I toured them. They have the mercer library too which is just down the road, all very central. Forget parking though, public transport or cycle, parking price ain't worth it.

    As for teaching hospitals, UCD wins on location for me.. vincents very handy. RCSI are way out in beaumount and james connolly which will be a pain to get to. The facilities at beaumount are top notch though, had a peak around. All brand new.
    DrShredded wrote: »
    4. The main RCSI sports facilities are in Dardistown. I can only imagine this is inconvenient. Is the proximity of the sports facilities in UCD an advantage for UCD in terms of sports. RCSI also has a lot fewer societies I could see myself joining eg. Association of Norwegian Students Abroad. Is this a reason to choose UCD (more societies)?

    Depending on what sport you play, RCSI might be fairly inconvenient. Gym/squash/basketball all on RCSI main campus but the playing fields are off campus. UCD definitely wins on sport front, no arguing there. More students, more sports clubs, higher standards of competition.
    DrShredded wrote: »
    5. My mam went to UCD and says you are treated quite impersonally there.Apparently, the lecturers and doctors there are quite harsh compared to those in the smaller, friendlier RCSI. Has it changed?

    From what I've heard, in RCSI they do look after you more. I can't say anyone I know that did med in UCD said they were treated badly, but a lot more is left up to your own initiative.
    DrShredded wrote: »
    6. My mam also says there was less clinical orientated training in UCD. The students of RCSI spend more time in the hospital around patients, becoming more 'clinically polished' as a result. She says although you get the same standard of degree in both places, RCSI grads leave college with a more developed 'bedside manner'.

    This is somewhat true, RCSI very keen on early patient contact. I think how 'clinically polished' you are is going to depend on your personal effort, but certainly in RCSI there is more opportunity to polish.
    DrShredded wrote: »
    7. Is there any difference between Vincents/The matter and Beaumont in terms of teaching hospital quality?

    Varies hugely depending on how you get on with the teaching doctors and personality etc, but in terms of facilities they are fairly even, but beaumount facilities are 'newer'.
    DrShredded wrote: »
    8. (Probably Question for graduates) I hear post-grad training in RCSI is the best in Ireland and is the best thing about the college academically. Is it true it's near impossible to get onto the BST "Basic Surgical Training" programme or into any other post-grad position in RCSI without going there?

    No idea on this one!
    DrShredded wrote: »
    9. (Personal question) My dad is a surgeon in Beaumont who sometimes lectures and examines med students in RCSI. I this a reason for me to got to RCSI? ie. Will this be in any way helpful to me? Could you ask your friends bout the experience of anyone they know in RCSI in a similar position.

    Nepotism is RIFE in medicine in Ireland. He won't be able to get better grades for you directly but there is definitely a "look after him" effect, you will get to sit in on the most interesting cases because they know who your dad is. You will in lots of cases get preferential treatment over other students in a clinical setting. He can give you advice since knows the RCSI system inside out, and how to get the most out of it.

    DrShredded wrote: »
    10. ( Prob for grads again) I hear the competition for SHO places is sick. Are contacts in medicine useful in getting into jobs/positions. Will my dad's contacts (work colleagues, professor of surg, Dean of college) be in any way beneficial in this respect?

    Regardless of what college you go to, your dad's contacts are going to come in handy at some point. You will need the grades to back it up though, those who score highest will always get the places they want. Just take his advice when he gives it and you will almost certainly be in a better position than most people upon qualifying.

    AS for SHO places, getting the exact position you want in a specific hospital is always going to be difficult, even with contacts. I would try and look at from the point of view that your dad can help push you to being the best candidate but can't do the work for you to get there.


    Hope my comments are somewhat useful, i'm sure people will disagree with plenty of what I said, everyone has there own perspective on college!


  • Registered Users Posts: 486 ✭✭hollingr


    I feel some people are underestimating the effect the 25 bonus maths will have.

    I hope people can tell me why i'm wrong !!!!

    No one can tell you for definite if you are right or wrong, but try use the same method to calculate the cut off score for 2009, 2010,2011, and see if it is in any way accurate might be a good way to check your calculations.

    also have a look at this..

    College......2009.........2010...........2011
    Cork..........715...10.....725.......8....733*
    UCD..........719....6......725......10....735
    galwy........712*..5......719.......9....728*
    RCSI.........715*..6.......721.....11....732
    Trinity.......724*..7......731*.....8.....739*

    742 as the cut off would mean Galway jumps up 14 points! The highest jump so far was 11 points, owing to a rather sizeable increase in the HPAT scores, which have this year levelled off/shrunk slightly.

    This means that assuming the bell curve for L.C stays constant this year, all change HAS to be down to honours maths bonus. You could be right that a large number of people in the 525 range are going to get bumped up to 550, but statistically speaking the probability of being in 525 range AND having a 190+ hpat are actually quite small. People over 550 can only get 5 bonus points MAX, so they can't account for a 14 point increase at all.

    Only time will tell wat the cut off will be! Remember that speculation is only that, and plenty of people don't even apply to galway or cork because they want to stay in Dublin, so you can't blanket distribute students across all courses accurately.

    Better to wake up on CAO offers day with an open mind than to be expecting one thing or the other.. Just put down your courses in order of preference and hope for the best.. someone sitting on 735 isn't going to be cocky going in, but personally I think they still have a decent chance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Mad Shark


    hollingr wrote: »
    No one can tell you for definite if you are right or wrong, but try use the same method to calculate the cut off score for 2009, 2010,2011, and see if it is in any way accurate might be a good way to check your calculations.

    also have a look at this..

    College......2009.........2010...........2011
    Cork..........715...10.....725.......8....733*
    UCD..........719....6......725......10....735
    galwy........712*..5......719.......9....728*
    RCSI.........715*..6.......721.....11....732
    Trinity.......724*..7......731*.....8.....739*

    742 as the cut off would mean Galway jumps up 14 points! The highest jump so far was 11 points, owing to a rather sizeable increase in the HPAT scores, which have this year levelled off/shrunk slightly.

    This means that assuming the bell curve for L.C stays constant this year, all change HAS to be down to honours maths bonus. You could be right that a large number of people in the 525 range are going to get bumped up to 550, but statistically speaking the probability of being in 525 range AND having a 190+ hpat are actually quite small. People over 550 can only get 5 bonus points MAX, so they can't account for a 14 point increase at all.

    Only time will tell wat the cut off will be! Remember that speculation is only that, and plenty of people don't even apply to galway or cork because they want to stay in Dublin, so you can't blanket distribute students across all courses accurately.

    Better to wake up on CAO offers day with an open mind than to be expecting one thing or the other.. Just put down your courses in order of preference and hope for the best.. someone sitting on 735 isn't going to be cocky going in, but personally I think they still have a decent chance.

    Very reassuring thanks - the lower the better!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 abbeymate


    Hi everyone, Im just wondering do i stand a chance at all to get med this year :confused: My hpat was bad (175 - 76th percentile) and i think ill get about 535 in the leaving cert.. but i got the HEAR scheme today and im just asking ye're opinion on my chances :o I know its pretty much impossibe though :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭vladcount


    hi there abbeymate i only got 115 in hpat and i got hear too so your deffo going to get somewhere quickly just remember on the hear it depends how us the HEAR cannidates do.
    basic facts are as i have an aunt in tcd who has heard that only 1/2 of the hear people actualy get a chance so once u have a fair leaving 500-550 abd around a hight hpat u are grand remember look at around 15% deduction! my guess points for med will be around the 750 mark which is scarey but dew to the frop in hpat and the lift in HL maths it should be quite lvl this year with a bit of luck thats my opinion


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭QueenOfLeon


    vladcount wrote: »
    basic facts are as i have an aunt in tcd who has heard that only 1/2 of the hear people actualy get a chance so once u have a fair leaving 500-550 abd around a hight hpat u are grand remember look at around 15% deduction! my guess points for med will be around the 750 mark which is scarey but dew to the frop in hpat and the lift in HL maths it should be quite lvl this year with a bit of luck thats my opinion

    Definitely not a 15% reduction...that would be around 630 points. Its more like a 5% reduction, but it depends on how the other HEAR applicants do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35 noname123


    Does anyone know how the lecture hours will vary over the 5/6 years?

    I am expecting at least 25 in year one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭Mad Shark


    vladcount wrote: »
    hi there abbeymate i only got 115 in hpat and i got hear too so your deffo going to get somewhere quickly just remember on the hear it depends how us the HEAR cannidates do.
    basic facts are as i have an aunt in tcd who has heard that only 1/2 of the hear people actualy get a chance so once u have a fair leaving 500-550 abd around a hight hpat u are grand remember look at around 15% deduction! my guess points for med will be around the 750 mark which is scarey but dew to the frop in hpat and the lift in HL maths it should be quite lvl this year with a bit of luck thats my opinion


    750 this year? why do you think it will be that high? opinion is definitely varied on this....


  • Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭Bbbbolger


    I know there's probably no point in me saying this because everyone (including myself) is gonna keep doing it, but don't get too caught up in predicting the points. I did last year and it can have a very negative effect on you. While some of the Maths done and estimates given seem excellent, we really can't have a clue until August. Enjoy the Summer. I wasted mine last year worrying and still had to repeat. Speculating on the points won't make them drop, it'll just stress you out :) . Now everyone feel free to ignore me and continue on :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭vladcount


    id say 750 as the points were near enough to 740 last yr but im guessing due to HL maths :( it is gonna make it rise saddly people like me who do ord lvl are in a bit of a rut saddly !
    can anyone think of anyreason why points should stay the same or go down ?
    i got the HEAR and i feel i only got around 510 plus crap HPAT and i hope i get into med if not do nursin or sci then do gad med


  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Paralysis


    vladcount wrote: »
    id say 750 as the points were near enough to 740 last yr but im guessing due to HL maths :( it is gonna make it rise saddly people like me who do ord lvl are in a bit of a rut saddly !
    can anyone think of anyreason why points should stay the same or go down ?
    i got the HEAR and i feel i only got around 510 plus crap HPAT and i hope i get into med if not do nursin or sci then do gad med

    Just to point out - at 750 points, a person would have to get minimum 185 in the HPAT (approx. 87/8th %ile) AND full LC points with honours maths... It just seems unlikely to me that you would HAVE to get top 13% of the HPAT and have a perfect LC to get a place...


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭vladcount


    Paralysis wrote: »
    Just to point out - at 750 points, a person would have to get minimum 185 in the HPAT (approx. 87/8th %ile) AND full LC points with honours maths... It just seems unlikely to me that you would HAVE to get top 13% of the HPAT and have a perfect LC to get a place...

    yes but im including the HEAR aswell along with HL maths extra points which reduces the number you need and extra points for HL maths will rise the LC results


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  • Registered Users Posts: 109 ✭✭Kirby2k07


    Are the UMAT and HPAT essentially the same thing with UMAT being slightly longer? Any difference in difficulty between the two?


  • Registered Users Posts: 35 noname123


    Kirby2k07 wrote: »
    Are the UMAT and HPAT essentially the same thing with UMAT being slightly longer? Any difference in difficulty between the two?

    Exactly.
    Made by the exact same company, with the same three sections but the UMAT is longer.

    STRUCTURE:
    S1: Logical Reasoning and Problem Solving
    Q's: 48(UMAT) vs 44(HPAT)
    Time: 70(UMAT) vs 65(HPAT)
    S2: Understanding People
    Q's: 44(UMAT) vs 36(HPAT)
    Time: 55(UMAT) vs 45(HPAT)
    S3: Non-verbal Reasoning
    Q's: 42(UMAT) vs 30(HPAT)
    Time: 55(UMAT) vs 40(HPAT)


  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭NoHarm1994


    Anyone thinking that they will end up doing human health and disease in Trinity next year? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 110 ✭✭Paralysis


    Does anyone know what time CAO offers are made on the 20th? Is it midnight?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 8,572 Mod ✭✭✭✭Canard


    I think it's 6am or so, but I'm not 100% sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 geranium1


    Hi all,

    I have two official HPAT practice papers for sale, bought when I was planning to sit the 2012 HPAT Ireland, but never used. Send me a message if interested.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Albection


    Patchy~ wrote: »
    I think it's 6am or so, but I'm not 100% sure.

    Yep, it's 6.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 gorta


    Can anyone tell me the exact amount of places available for medicine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭back to back


    trinity 133,ucd 90,rcsi 39,ucg 120 ucc 90,
    however you then have to subtract the mature applicants and the hear applicants which is 31,
    therefore the total is 441


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26 tweetybird4848


    Would you say 748 would be enough for trinity? And also is there a certain no. Of places set aside for uk applicants or do we have to compete with them too?


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