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IVCA race canceled this Sunday

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  • Options
    #32
    morana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭morana


    We need our cycling lobby to be akin to the IFA!


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    #33
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    Anything to back up that claim or are you speculating?

    I doubt the recent issues in Finglas which seem to be spreading are related to either of those claims. That's not to say they may contribute in the future but claiming the current situation is even partly due to these issues, is wrong, IMHO.

    Which claim? That CI have reacted to the recent upload of videos from a race by insisting that UCI rules that ban them are upheld? Whilst that of course deals with the videos themselves it doesn't deal with the actions the videos were highlighting.

    Or are you asking me to backup the claim that riders threat the roads as closed during a race. Anybody that has ever done any racing knows this to be true.

    Par tof the reason for the cancellation is down to motorists and locals feeling put out by the race. Not abiding by the rules, effectively taking over the whole road rather than just one side only adds to this.

    I'm not saying the decision is correct, or even fair, but it is a growing narrative.


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    #34
    greenmat
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭greenmat


    If anyone would like to Join me on a YOUTH SPIN this Sat 28th March at 11am from North Street Business Park, Swords, just down from Carnegie Court Hotel. Doing laps of Corduff Circuit, (Last years Ben McKenna Circuit) were the problems with racing OUR roads started in 2012. Protect our sport for the future. All welcome, spread the word. Quiet protest and a chance to meet and chat to other racing Cyclists about our problems racing In Fingal and Meath.


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    #35
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    greenmat wrote: »
    Quiet protest
    :eek: ... never known you do anything quietly ...

    Anyway, what I want to know is will I still get my 2 points for marshalling on Sunday:confused:

    :)


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    #36
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,212 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    greenmat wrote: »
    If anyone would like to Join me on a YOUTH SPIN this Sat 28th March at 11am from North Street Business Park, Swords, just down from Carnegie Court Hotel. Doing laps of Corduff Circuit, (Last years Ben McKenna Circuit) were the problems with racing OUR roads started in 2012. Protect our sport for the future. All welcome, spread the word. Quiet protest and a chance to meet and chat to other racing Cyclists about our problems racing In Fingal and Meath.

    I should be there...(if I'm not dropped at the back of the airport again! :D )

    DISCLAIMER: The Word "Dropped" doe not imply a "Race" in any shape or form!


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    #37
    morana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭morana


    Beasty wrote: »
    :eek: ... never known you do anything quietly ...

    Anyway, what I want to know is will I still get my 2 points for marshalling on Sunday:confused:

    :)

    you will be joint leader of the League so!


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    #38
    morana
    Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭morana


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Are the problems spreading from Fingal to Meath?

    what do you mean?


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    #39
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    morana wrote: »
    what do you mean?

    I mean is this an intervention of the Gardai in Meath based on the clarification of the RTA undertaken by Fingal CC and Balbriggan Gardai? i.e. have Gards in Meath adopted the same stance as those in Fingal.


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    #40
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Par tof the reason for the cancellation is down to motorists and locals feeling put out by the race.

    I think that's the claim Diarmuid was asking you to back. The cancellations seem to be entirely stemming from the Gardai.


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    #41
    wav1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭wav1


    Inquitus wrote: »
    I mean is this an intervention of the Gardai in Meath based on the clarification of the RTA undertaken by Fingal CC and Balbriggan Gardai? i.e. have Gards in Meath adopted the same stance as those in Fingal.
    More or less but not quite as bad[ish].They want road closures applied for..Our races in Drogheda[every inch of the circuit is in Meath] are going ahead inc the 3 stage Ras na N'og.Basically if there are not road closures they are not aiding or assisting any races..This we have accepted and are going to post anyway..Biggest issue is the use of our marshalls and how they approach motorists etc..Cant stop but can advise..If there are any issues post event garda said they will investigate and possibly prosecute marshall if necessary..After consultations with CI they have confirmed that they and their insurers would if necessary defend the marshall if they act in the correct manner..On this basis we are going ahead..What I would ask is this..if any of you out there care enough about whats happening,come along to our weekend,take on a hivis and flag and lets have marshalls everywhere as a stance of support in whats happening..Wav


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    #42
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Swordscc considered this as a possible circuit in the PP.

    No diversions needed on Chesterfield ave. and both entrances to the park on the Chapelizod Rd are easily diverted....some day maybe..

    https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3561132,-6.3246672/53.3488476,-6.3129871/53.3470346,-6.3295696/53.349289,-6.3338612/53.3558537,-6.3248339/@53.351966,-6.3348053,15z/am=t/data=!4m2!4m1!3e1

    Great little circuit. I did that a few times when the Road Club were running races in the Park. Duathlons are still given permission to use that circuit. Not sure why cycle races are any different from the OPW's point of view.


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    #43
    Lusk_Doyle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,338 ✭✭✭Lusk_Doyle


    morana wrote: »
    We need our cycling lobby to be akin to the IFA!

    Mass slow cycle through Dublin city centre as a protest with Gardai required to marshal it. Oh the irony!

    Edit: Might not be ironic but you get my gist!


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    #44
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Swordscc considered this as a possible circuit in the PP.

    No diversions needed on Chesterfield ave. and both entrances to the park on the Chapelizod Rd are easily diverted....some day maybe..

    https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3561132,-6.3246672/53.3488476,-6.3129871/53.3470346,-6.3295696/53.349289,-6.3338612/53.3558537,-6.3248339/@53.351966,-6.3348053,15z/am=t/data=!4m2!4m1!3e1

    You'd need to provide access to the hospital on that circuit., I believe that's been the source of complaints in the past.


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    #45
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Just to be clear. Cycling Ireland did not decide to ban cameras on the back of recent footage. Cameras were never allowed in races.


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    #46
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    Just to be clear. Cycling Ireland did not decide to ban cameras on the back of recent footage. Cameras were never allowed in races.

    They decided to enforce a rule pro-actively that they never cared about in the past, which is much the same thing in terms of intent really.


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    #47
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    The rule was always enforced. There have been cases where comms weren't aware people had cameras on their bikes until afterwards. But I've yet to hear of a comm intentionally turn a blind eye to it.


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    #48
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,212 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    buffalo wrote: »
    You'd need to provide access to the hospital on that circuit., I believe that's been the source of complaints in the past.

    If we ran the race and any profit made went to the hospital...that might change their mind..it would also reflect well on the OPW. ( assuming we actually made a profit)


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    #49
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    The rule was always enforced. There have been cases where comms weren't aware people had cameras on their bikes until afterwards. But I've yet to hear of a comm intentionally turn a blind eye to it.

    Maybe so, but I never heard a mention of cameras, from a Comm, until the week after that video went up.


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    #50
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Maybe so, but I never heard a mention of cameras, from a Comm, until the week after that video went up.

    Maybe they felt they didn't need to issue a reminder. This year is the first year I've seen footage from onboard cameras at open races appear. It wasn't an issue before.


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    #51
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,267 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    buffalo wrote: »
    You'd need to provide access to the hospital on that circuit., I believe that's been the source of complaints in the past.

    Access to the hospital doesn't appear to be an issue for duathlons using that circuit though


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    #52
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,285 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    wav1 wrote: »
    More or less but not quite as bad[ish].They want road closures applied for..Our races in Drogheda[every inch of the circuit is in Meath] are going ahead inc the 3 stage Ras na N'og.Basically if there are not road closures they are not aiding or assisting any races..This we have accepted and are going to post anyway..Biggest issue is the use of our marshalls and how they approach motorists etc..Cant stop but can advise..If there are any issues post event garda said they will investigate and possibly prosecute marshall if necessary..After consultations with CI they have confirmed that they and their insurers would if necessary defend the marshall if they act in the correct manner..On this basis we are going ahead..What I would ask is this..if any of you out there care enough about whats happening,come along to our weekend,take on a hivis and flag and lets have marshalls everywhere as a stance of support in whats happening..Wav
    Is this something that has been agreed with a local station and applicable specifically to your own races, or does this extend across Co Meath? If the latter I suspect the IVCA were not aware of this (until they see it here!). That may give them some scope to approach their own insurers to see if they can also get similar "assurance"

    The information I have seen from a specific station within Co Meath is that they will not permit racing unless 100% within the RoTR, meaning anyone, for example, failing to observe a Stop sign leaves themselves open to prosecution, and the organisers could also be on the hook


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    #53
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I don't have any evidence to back up the claim that the riders behaviour on other races has had an impact on the decision by the Garda, but are we really to believe that they have no impact? Road impassable, cyclist racing through at 40+kph on the wrong side of the road, it can't be argued that it helped!

    As I said, I don't think this is the sole cause, or if something had been done it would have necessarily changed anything, I think in the current climate of motorists v cyclists this action was inevitable.

    Motorists see the roads as theirs. There are built purely for their purpose of going from A to B. Having to give way to a group of people racing is the ultimate in the loss of this right! Just look at any road where a cyclist is on it. A large mount of motorists don't see cyclists are part of traffic but rather a nuisance that should be got around as soon as possible.

    This is just the natural extension of that thinking.


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    #54
    wav1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,903 ✭✭✭wav1


    Beasty wrote: »
    Is this something that has been agreed with a local station and applicable specifically to your own races, or does this extend across Co Meath? If the latter I suspect the IVCA were not aware of this (until they see it here!). That may give them some scope to approach their own insurers to see if they can also get similar "assurance"

    The information I have seen from a specific station within Co Meath is that they will not permit racing unless 100% within the RoTR, meaning anyone, for example, failing to observe a Stop sign leaves themselves open to prosecution, and the organisers could also be on the hook
    Its not an agreement..Its what we took away from the meeting as our perception of things and after assurances from CI on the marshaling issue we decided to go ahead..If everybody buckles we are finished.And the noise is being made by a Supt in Meath who covers a huge patch[not a local station]


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    #55
    greenmat
    Registered Users Posts: 581 ✭✭✭greenmat


    buffalo wrote: »
    You'd need to provide access to the hospital on that circuit., I believe that's been the source of complaints in the past.

    There is another entrance to St Mary's off Upper Glen Road that brings you into the back of the hospital they don't want you to know about, can enter and exit from hospital off the circuit. Just puts people out a little.


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    #56
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    greenmat wrote: »
    There is another entrance to St Mary's off Upper Glen Road that brings you into the back of the hospital they don't want you to know about, can enter and exit from hospital off the circuit. Just puts people out a little.

    I always suspected this road could be used, but I'm just repeating what I've heard as one of the reasons given as to why road racing no longer takes place in the Park.


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    #57
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I don't have any evidence to back up the claim that the riders behaviour on other races has had an impact on the decision by the Garda, but are we really to believe that they have no impact?

    Yes. For example, triathlons have been cancelled too, and they have no bunches.


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    #58
    Cond0r
    Registered Users Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Cond0r


    buffalo wrote: »
    Yes. For example, triathlons have been cancelled too, and they have no bunches.

    There is evidence that rider behavior has had this impact. It was specifically cited as the reason for withdrawal of support for the Balbriggan races due to take place this weekend.

    A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan after the event [in 2014], outlining all the legislation that was broken by riders in the event and that future events would have to be run on closed roads for this reason.


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    #59
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Cond0r wrote: »
    There is evidence that rider behavior has had this impact. It was specifically cited as the reason for withdrawal of support for the Balbriggan races due to take place this weekend.

    A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan after the event [in 2014], outlining all the legislation that was broken by riders in the event and that future events would have to be run on closed roads for this reason.

    Road races cannot be run legally in that case. You can't get round failing to stop at a stop sign, unless we remove the offending signs!


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    #60
    RobFowl
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭RobFowl


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Road races cannot be run legally in that case. You can't get round failing to stop at a stop sign, unless we remove the offending signs!

    I know they cited riding more than 2 abreast as one of the complaints ....

    They have a skewed view of what bike racing is about ......


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    #61
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Cond0r wrote: »
    There is evidence that rider behavior has had this impact. It was specifically cited as the reason for withdrawal of support for the Balbriggan races due to take place this weekend.

    A report was sent to Fingal CoCo by the Gardaí in Balbriggan after the event [in 2014], outlining all the legislation that was broken by riders in the event and that future events would have to be run on closed roads for this reason.

    I wasn't aware of such a report. Link?


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