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Gretsch and Amp for my 40th Birthday.

  • 17-10-2009 6:47pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭


    Hi guys.
    This is my first post in the instruments forum. I have played acoustic guitar for years, mostly at home but also at the odd traditional session in a local pub. I have an old Takamine EN-10 which I love and have found to be a great all round guitar. I bought a garrison which I use for DADGAD tunes and it also sounds good to me when accompaning traditional tunes.
    Its my 40th birthday in a few months and the wife (bless her) has agreed to buy me a Gretsch archtop. I have always wanted one and just love the look of them. Im into the beatles, rockabilly and the early scotty moore stuff. ( i know scotty played a gibson..at least i think so). I also enjoy Brian Setzers stuff and think he is a super guitarist.
    What im after here is anyones opinions on the Gretsch range of guitars. I should have around 1500E to spend or thereabouts.
    Would you recommend a 2nd hand guitar or one of the electromatic models.
    Also I know nothing about amps at all. What amp would you guys recommend for a gretsch, dont want to spend loads and it probably would be for home use only with the possibility of the odd small gig or session with the boys down the local.
    Finally would you recommend a seperate amp form my acoustic guitars or is it possible to buy a good all rounder. I should also add that i sing at these sessions and everyone tells me I should take it up because I have a good voice. ( i hope that doesnt sound big headed:rolleyes:)

    Thanks to all for any help, advice ect in advance.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Seziertisch


    They are nice guitars. Well built etc. You should try models with and without a Bigsby tremolo. Personally I find a Bigsby on a hollowbody guitar kills the resonance of the top compared to a floating bridge.

    For the money you want to pay you are probably going to have to go for a second hand one.

    Other high quality Japanese builds might also be worth looking at. Tokai make some very nice higher end hollow and semi-hollow guitars. The Epiphone Elitist series might also be worth a look. That said, neither of these is a Gretsch, and if you want a Gretsch you are going to have to get a Gretsch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Thanks for the advice, Im sure its a Gretsch for me. I will have to keep my eyes peeled for a good 2nd hand model. Does anyone have any advice on Amps as in my first post?
    Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    I have this little amp and it's great for playing at home,nothing in the way of frills on it but it's got a solid warm vintage tone to it,plus it's cheap!

    http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/75272


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    punchdrunk wrote: »
    I have this little amp and it's great for playing at home,nothing in the way of frills on it but it's got a solid warm vintage tone to it,plus it's cheap!

    http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/75272

    I have seen those for sale online. Nice retro look. Do you play a Gretsch guitar through it?
    Sorry for all the questions but have you played an Acoustic guitar through it and if so how did it sound?

    Thanks again for the help guys.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    no i wish i had a gretsch! :(

    but i do play a fender tele-sonic and a reverend wolfman through it
    which both have gretsch pickups

    sounds great with a bit of this!

    43532-1-big.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Nice. Id imagine you can get a good variety of sounds using that combination. Thanks a lot for posting the pic and the help.
    Do you know anything about acoustic amps?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    yeah sure,unfortunately i think you'll be disappointed by running an acoustic
    through an electric amp,the frequency response of an electric amp just isn't good enough for an acoustic

    something like this...

    http://www.thomann.de/ie/marshall_as50d.htm

    would be much better at this application


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Thanks again. So it looks like seperate amps for elecrtic and acoustic giutars. That marshall looks decent. I had hoped it would be possible to run both through the one amp but that isnt going to give the best acoustic sound. Thanks again for the help.;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    yeah i definitely think two amps is the way to go
    be sure to post pics when you get the plank! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    Chrisguitars.com has a few used Gretsch's that are affordable.

    Here's a few for $450 each :)

    gret05g5129-hollowbody-red.jpg

    gret-5120bk-5120or-hollow.jpg

    http://www.chrisguitars.com/archtop.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Thanks Dord. Chrisguitars? Had never heard of them.
    Has anybody on here bought from them before and if so what was the transaction like?
    I think these are the electromatic guitars. Im going to show my limited knowledge here but whats the difference between them and the more expensive guitars?
    Thanks again for the help guys.;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    rafared wrote: »
    Thanks Dord. Chrisguitars? Had never heard of them.
    Has anybody on here bought from them before and if so what was the transaction like?
    I think these are the electromatic guitars. Im going to show my limited knowledge here but whats the difference between them and the more expensive guitars?
    Thanks again for the help guys.;)

    I bought from Chris earlier in the year. I got a small little tube guitar amp and it arrived safely. :) A few others here have bought from him also.

    You're right about these being Electromatics. The Electromatics are made in Korea (and the very low end ones in China). They're still damn nice guitars. The more expensive ones are made in Japan. Originals would have been made in the US but many feel that now is the high point of Gretsch quality.

    Chris has a few MIJ (made in Japan) Gretsch's that look very nice. A little bit more expensive but if you've got it then why not. :D

    This Gretsch Brian Setzer (made by Terada in Japan) is $2099 on Chris's. The quality would be higher than the Electromatics and also it's finished in Nitrocellulose lacquer, just like Gibsons and old Fenders. So, the finish will mellow with age. :cool:

    That's not to say the Electromatics are bad guitars, they're just built to a different price point. ;)

    gretsch03setzer-g6129sslvo-or.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Thanks a mil Dord. Help like that is always appreciated.;)
    I must have a good look at Chris's site. Id imagine buying from the US would involve paying duty to the customs boys. Probably work out cheaper that buying here anyway. I think im going to go for a little higher up the range than the electromatic guitars. Something around 1500E all in is about my limit.
    Might have a look on e-bay also. Might turn up something suitable.
    Will keep ye posted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    rafared wrote: »
    Thanks a mil Dord. Help like that is always appreciated.;)
    I must have a good look at Chris's site. Id imagine buying from the US would involve paying duty to the customs boys. Probably work out cheaper that buying here anyway. I think im going to go for a little higher up the range than the electromatic guitars. Something around 1500E all in is about my limit.
    Might have a look on e-bay also. Might turn up something suitable.
    Will keep ye posted.

    Sure no probs! :)

    You could also look on Japanese stores... seeing as they're made there! :pac:
    The guitar below is on Ishibashi Musics website. I've bought 2 basses & 1 guitar from Ishibashi music in Japan. They have great prices and customer service (have some english speakers too!). Many others here have bought from them also.

    3168990041.jpg
    This one here is a G6117 Anniversary edition which was made in Japan. Including shipping and customs & VAT it would work out in the region of €1250~. http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box/ubox.cgi?T=syosai&sline=2776&print=1&keys2=yokohama%40ishibashi%2Eco%2Ejp&tid=list3

    They have a lot more Gretschs too. You can view them on Ishibashi's U Box (used guitars). http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box

    In terms of pricing, on each guitars page you will see a red price and a black price under. The black one is the one for us (less Japanese sales tax). There was an excel calculator floating around to work out the end price but tbh it's fairly easy. Take the black price and add 18,000JPY for shipping, convert this to Euro (http://www.xe.com) and then add on an extra 25% of that price (customs & VAT).

    Shipping is by EMS and has tracking. It usually takes a week or so door to door. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭padraig_f


    I'm not currently a Gretsch owner (though hope to be one at some stage). I've been casually on the lookout for a 5120 (Electromatic) or 6120 (Pro-line) on adverts.ie for a while now. One thing I'd say about buying second-hand is they don't seem to turn up very often. And when they do, often it's not exactly what you want, so buying second-hand, from Ireland at least, may not be that practical.

    One thing you could do as a middle-ground, is get an Electromatic and upgrade the pickups. TV Jones classics are generally thought to be an improvement over the stock pickups. From what I've read, the stock pickups on the Electromatics are more Gibson/darker sounding, and pickups like TV Jones classics give it more of the Gretsch sound (while stock pickups on the pro-line are generally thought to be fine).

    I'd also recommend having a look on the gretsch-talk forums, very helpful guys on there. They have an archive search so you can see if similar questions to your own have been asked before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Dord wrote: »
    Sure no probs! :)

    You could also look on Japanese stores... seeing as they're made there! :pac:
    The guitar below is on Ishibashi Musics website. I've bought 2 basses & 1 guitar from Ishibashi music in Japan. They have great prices and customer service (have some english speakers too!). Many others here have bought from them also.

    3168990041.jpg
    This one here is a G6117 Anniversary edition which was made in Japan. Including shipping and customs & VAT it would work out in the region of €1250~. http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box/ubox.cgi?T=syosai&sline=2776&print=1&keys2=yokohama%40ishibashi%2Eco%2Ejp&tid=list3

    They have a lot more Gretschs too. You can view them on Ishibashi's U Box (used guitars). http://www.ishibashi.co.jp/u_box

    In terms of pricing, on each guitars page you will see a red price and a black price under. The black one is the one for us (less Japanese sales tax). There was an excel calculator floating around to work out the end price but tbh it's fairly easy. Take the black price and add 18,000JPY for shipping, convert this to Euro (http://www.xe.com) and then add on an extra 25% of that price (customs & VAT).

    Shipping is by EMS and has tracking. It usually takes a week or so door to door. :)

    WOW! Awesome mate. Thanks a mil.........I realy mean that.
    Its geat to get help like that, makes it easier for novices like me to get things done.
    Thanks again....top marks:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    padraig_f wrote: »
    I'm not currently a Gretsch owner (though hope to be one at some stage). I've been casually on the lookout for a 5120 (Electromatic) or 6120 (Pro-line) on adverts.ie for a while now. One thing I'd say about buying second-hand is they don't seem to turn up very often. And when they do, often it's not exactly what you want, so buying second-hand, from Ireland at least, may not be that practical.

    One thing you could do as a middle-ground, is get an Electromatic and upgrade the pickups. TV Jones classics are generally thought to be an improvement over the stock pickups. From what I've read, the stock pickups on the Electromatics are more Gibson/darker sounding, and pickups like TV Jones classics give it more of the Gretsch sound (while stock pickups on the pro-line are generally thought to be fine).

    I'd also recommend having a look on the gretsch-talk forums, very helpful guys on there. They have an archive search so you can see if similar questions to your own have been asked before.

    Super. Never considered upgrading the pickups. I assume this can be done fairly easily buy someone who knows what they are doing?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Seziertisch


    rafared wrote: »
    Super. Never considered upgrading the pickups. I assume this can be done fairly easily buy someone who knows what they are doing?

    If you want to do it yourself, you should get some solderless connectors from singlecoil.com. You just cut the cable coming from the old pickup (leave a bit on the pickup you are removing) and just attach the solderless plugs.

    Otherwise, taking the pots out of a hollowbody guitar to solder new pickups to them is a pain in the arse. The soldering only takes a couple of seconds, getting the pots in and out takes quite a bit longer. I know of repair guys that automatically levy an extra charge for working with hollowbody guitars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    I have a couple of Gretsches (5129 and a 6131T.) You should DEFINITELY get one with a bigsby - particularly for the kind of music that you mentioned. Gretsches can be a bit pernickity at first but with a bit of tweaking they come to life. Upgrades: Well the first upgrade you should make to ANY Gretsch is to buy a Tru Arc bridge. You can get them from Proteus (he's the inventor of the Tru Arc bridge) over at Gretschpages.com If you're going to upgrade the pups you should look at TV Jones pups. He is highly, highly regarded. I haven't bought any of his pups (yet) as I'm waiting for his Dynas to come out in Summer... they're supposed to be absolutely magical. TV also sells upgraded wiring harnesses and a smart tubing kit that makes changing pups and harnesses much, much easier. There are also instructional vids on his website; there is one where he shows how to change pups and a wiring harness on a 5129. Excellent vid and makes it look a breeze. 1,500 will get you a long way into Gretsch greatness - I would recommend that you consider buying from overseas. I bought both of my gits from Rocky at Street sounds. If you want his details go ahead and PM me. The biggest recommendation that I could make to you however, is to get over to www.gretschpages.com You'll find all manner of experts over there; it's also one of the better git forums on the net with just lovely people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    I have a couple of Gretsches (5129 and a 6131T.) You should DEFINITELY get one with a bigsby - particularly for the kind of music that you mentioned. Gretsches can be a bit pernickity at first but with a bit of tweaking they come to life. Upgrades: Well the first upgrade you should make to ANY Gretsch is to buy a Tru Arc bridge. You can get them from Proteus (he's the inventor of the Tru Arc bridge) over at Gretschpages.com If you're going to upgrade the pups you should look at TV Jones pups. He is highly, highly regarded. I haven't bought any of his pups (yet) as I'm waiting for his Dynas to come out in Summer... they're supposed to be absolutely magical. TV also sells upgraded wiring harnesses and a smart tubing kit that makes changing pups and harnesses much, much easier. There are also instructional vids on his website; there is one where he shows how to change pups and a wiring harness on a 5129. Excellent vid and makes it look a breeze. 1,500 will get you a long way into Gretsch greatness - I would recommend that you consider buying from overseas. I bought both of my gits from Rocky at Street sounds. If you want his details go ahead and PM me. The biggest recommendation that I could make to you however, is to get over to Gretschpages.com You'll find all manner of experts over there; it's also one of the better git forums on the net with just lovely people.

    Thanks a lot mate. Lots of info for me to digest there. I will take a good look at gretschpages.com this evening. PM sent for Roskys details.
    Thanks again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,180 ✭✭✭Seziertisch


    I have a couple of Gretsches (5129 and a 6131T.) You should DEFINITELY get one with a bigsby - particularly for the kind of music that you mentioned. Gretsches can be a bit pernickity at first but with a bit of tweaking they come to life. Upgrades: Well the first upgrade you should make to ANY Gretsch is to buy a Tru Arc bridge. You can get them from Proteus (he's the inventor of the Tru Arc bridge) over at Gretschpages.com If you're going to upgrade the pups you should look at TV Jones pups. He is highly, highly regarded. I haven't bought any of his pups (yet) as I'm waiting for his Dynas to come out in Summer... they're supposed to be absolutely magical. TV also sells upgraded wiring harnesses and a smart tubing kit that makes changing pups and harnesses much, much easier. There are also instructional vids on his website; there is one where he shows how to change pups and a wiring harness on a 5129. Excellent vid and makes it look a breeze. 1,500 will get you a long way into Gretsch greatness - I would recommend that you consider buying from overseas. I bought both of my gits from Rocky at Street sounds. If you want his details go ahead and PM me. The biggest recommendation that I could make to you however, is to get over to Gretschpages.com You'll find all manner of experts over there; it's also one of the better git forums on the net with just lovely people.

    Try with and without a Bigsby to see which you prefer. I wish I had, I eventually ended up replacing the Bigsby with a trapeze tailpiece. Its not that I'm anti-Bigsby either, it's just I don't think they work particularly well on fully hollow body guitars. TV Jones pups are excellent, amongst some of my favourite pickups.

    That said I am not too crazy on the standard wiring of a lot of Gretsches; I feel that a regular 500k volume and 500k tonepot wired in parallel (per pickup) gives the best results. I have tried all of them from two individual 500 k volume pots wired in series with a master volume pot to the Brian Setzer wiring (1 x master volume). Th load on the pickup has a huge effect on tone and feel.

    I am also not particularly a fan (tonally speaking) of the rocking bar bridge on Gretsches. I am sure the Tru Arc is a big step up, but don't forget a regular tunematic also fits onto the wooden base. I have had great success with the Callaham ABR-1 on mine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Wow you guys know your stuff. I realise now how little i know aout the subject. I assumed it was just a matter of finding, buyind and playing the instrument but I realy need to do my homework first. That suits me anyway because I enjoy finding out about the subject before I buy anything. I have contacted rocky and also had a look on that japaneese site. The shear ammount and variations of guitars and hardware is staggering.
    Anyway I will let you guys know what happens when I eventually decide what to buy.

    Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭Quattroste


    Rafared, it's great to understand all about pickups and wiring but not necessary. Like you I am on the Gretsch trail :D and I have my model picked out. Although DORD's posting above of the G6117 Anniversary has really thrown me, thanks DORD :|. Anyhow don't worry about all that pickup and wiring stuff just yet. Go for a Japanese made Gretsch and staring playing. If you don't like it you can sell it right?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    Just out of interest, what model are you going for Quattro?


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    Quattroste wrote: »
    Rafared, it's great to understand all about pickups and wiring but not necessary. Like you I am on the Gretsch trail :D and I have my model picked out. Although DORD's posting above of the G6117 Anniversary has really thrown me, thanks DORD :|. Anyhow don't worry about all that pickup and wiring stuff just yet. Go for a Japanese made Gretsch and staring playing. If you don't like it you can sell it right?

    I take your point Quattro. Thats basically what I intend to do just want to familliarise myself with the basics first.;)
    After all is said and done a nce Gretsch is a nice Gretsch!
    I love the look of the Tennessee Rose models or any of the country gents.
    I suppose im a sucker for a red guitar. I dont think the flash colours would be me. I wouldnt buy a silver model for instance because I just wouldnt like the look of it. Funnily enough I not that keen on the classic orange colour either.:rolleyes:
    Black, dark or deep red or even the wallnut finish just look super cool to me!
    Id love to see a pic of your Gretsch's guys.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    I have mine posted in the pics thread but sure I guess it wouldn't hurt to post them here too... :-):):):) First is a Gretsch 5129 and then a Gretsch 6131T (pictured without Tru Arc bridge.)

    Picture012.jpg

    Donkeyfightinbastids029.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭rafared


    I have mine posted in the pics thread but sure I guess it wouldn't hurt to post them here too... :-):):):) First is a Gretsch 5129 and then a Gretsch 6131T (pictured without Tru Arc bridge.)

    Picture012.jpg

    Donkeyfightinbastids029.jpg


    Wow. Awesome guitars mate. Esp like the 5129. My kinda colour two.
    Just out of interest what amp do you play them through and how do they differ in action, sound ect?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Dangerous Man


    They're very different indeed. The first one, the 5129, has two DeArmond US 2000 single coil pickups. The pups are very bright and have a glistening, vintage shimmer that you just don't get with any other pups. It takes quite a bit of tweaking to get a decent distorted tone from them as they can sound ice-picky under heavy distortion. I don't particularly care though - the clean tones are amazing from this guitar. The fretboard is rosewood, as is the bridge base. The guitar is a full hollowbody (no plank down the middle like Epi Casinos etc). The bridge itself is a bigsby aluminium compensating bridge and it creates a very bright sound indeed. The bigsby is a licenced bigsby (i.e. not made in the states) although there is very little difference in quality. It's a little stiffer than the V-cut bigs on my 6131T. It has crazy low action too and strings up stiff - not as stiff as a tele but not as loose as a strat - somewhere in-between. It's made in Korea and the overall build quality is extremely high featuring parallel tone bars and a sound post. The finish is firebird red in gloss urethane. It is strung with 10 guage strings (although these will be changed to 11s.)
    The second guitar is a 6131T - Jet Firebird. The colour of the Jet is also firebird red but strangely the two colours are slightly different - the 5129 is closer to a hotrod red and the firebird is a slightly darker, yet less intense red. It features a mahogony body with an arched maple top. The pups on the Jet are High Sensitivity Filtertrons. They're humbucking pups and also demonstrate a glimmering high end although has, overall, a much warmer sound than the DeArmonds with slightly less direction. The fretboard is ebony and, like the 5129, has neo-classical thumbnail inlays. Both necks are 12 radius. The body of the Jet is made of mahogony and is fully chambered (not 'swiss cheese, like a lot of Les Pauls) to the point where it's practically hollow. Consequently it can produce a lot of feedback at high distortion (but it's fairly easy to control too.) The Jet's control system is slightly different to that of the 5129. It features two switches - one controls the pups - centre is both on, top is neck and bottom is bridge. The other switch control that most idiosyncratic of Gretsch controls - the 'mud' switch. Leaving the switch in the centre position leaves the tone circuit off. Pushing it up gives a small treble cut, pushing it down gives a more pronounced treble cut. This control is absolutely useless - a lot of guys make mods there. It also has a bridge volume, a neck volume, and a master volume placed at the cutaway. The 5129's controls make a little bit more sense. It has a pup selector switch in the same vein as the 6131 but has a rotary tone control, two pup volume knobs and a volume control. The bridge featured in the pic is a Space Control bridge - and it's a terrible bridge in my opinion. It sucks sustain out of the guitar and just kills the tone. Each saddle is able to move horizontally along a thread pole - the purpose of which is to allow the user to dictate how close the strings are to each other alonge the neck. I remember someone describing the SC bridge as being a solution to a problem that never existed. I replaced that bridge with a TruArc Stainless Steel bridge - which is an excellent upgrade. The action on this guitar is low to medium and it plays much looser than the 5129 - you could almost say gloopy. But it is a joy to play. The bigsby is the special Gretsch US v-cut V3C. It works wonderfully well. I string the Jet with 11 guage strings. Both guitars have 24.6 scale length and both feature the knurled strap retainer knobs.
    I play them both through an ENGL Screamer 50 combo. It's a cracker of an amp - perfect for rock music.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    rafared wrote: »
    WOW! Awesome mate. Thanks a mil.........I realy mean that.
    Its geat to get help like that, makes it easier for novices like me to get things done.
    Thanks again....top marks:D

    No probs! I know how daunting it must be so a few good links and tips here and there should get you on your way (to clearing out your bank account) :D
    rafared wrote: »
    Super. Never considered upgrading the pickups. I assume this can be done fairly easily buy someone who knows what they are doing?

    It's a pain in the hole to change pickups on a hollowbody. I wouldn't do it unless it was completely necessary or if you had some cash to get it done professionally. As Seziertisch says, most guys will charge extra for hollowbody pickup replacement.
    Quattroste wrote: »
    Rafared, it's great to understand all about pickups and wiring but not necessary. Like you I am on the Gretsch trail :D and I have my model picked out. Although DORD's posting above of the G6117 Anniversary has really thrown me, thanks DORD :|. Anyhow don't worry about all that pickup and wiring stuff just yet. Go for a Japanese made Gretsch and staring playing. If you don't like it you can sell it right?

    Sorry :o rafared might wanna hurry and buy that, I have the GAS now. :pac:
    In the process of looking for a few guitars that might be suitable for rafared I somehow managed to convince myself I need a Gretsch. :D

    I'm eyeing up a G6119-1959 Chet Atkins Tennessean Rose (long name!! :eek:)

    P1180978.JPG

    I was gonna try spring for a '50s Gibson ES225T next year but I like the look of this Gretsch... big difference between them but I'm gonna keep it in mind because it looks fookin' awesome. I have a bit of a thing for single pickup guitars. :o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,433 ✭✭✭Quattroste


    Just out of interest, what model are you going for Quattro?

    I was going to hit buy on a G6118 Anniversary yesterday until I saw the G6117 Anniversary above. Need to look at he differences but I think I prefer the G6117 Anni.


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