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The Irish mother

  • 23-08-2009 2:51pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    What is the Irish mother like? I heard some real horror stories about Irish mothers who let their sons live with them well into their late 20ies and serve them hand and foot while at the same time giving their own daughters the cold shoulder when they come for help. Are Irish mothers spoiling their sons to much? Are they very domineering mothers?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Ok, Im going to make sweeping generalisations here, but given the racist, matriphobic title of this thread, really I have very little room to manoever.

    Yes they are domineering. But they can also seem like complete slaves.

    The doting on the son, imo comes from this turning their sons into husbands, because their husbands are lousy and not affectionate, probably because they had an Irish domineering mother who taught them how to relate to women through power, rather than through something healthier and more collaborative.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    In fairness mothers can only serve someone hand on foot who is accepting that service. I don't think the fault lies with any one party. Is it the mothers fault for accepting the washing their son brings home or the son's fault for even contemplating to bring it, is it the mothers fault the son hasn't chosen to move out by 35? From my experience (not just in Ireland), for the most part it seems to be a fairly symbiotic relationship.

    My MIL is lovely. She didn't have any daughters so I have no comparisons but I do find the rather archaic expectation that I & the other female relatives help with dinner & so on, while my husband lounges around with the other men a bit odd. I remember one Christmas getting up at silly o'clock to help her get dinner on & by the time we had ours plated & went through, a number of the menfolk were finished & leaving the table to watch telly.

    While I think that is so boorish & there is no way in hell it would happen in my family, I hold my MIL as responsible for clearly accepting such treatment for so many years as I do for those that showed such utter thoughtlessness.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭MizzLolly


    Yup, I love my gran soo much but when I lived with her I really seen how this Irish Mammy thing can work. I was 17. Her son was 28. I was in college and working part time. Her son was on the dole playing computer games all night and sleeping all day. I'd come in from work (after college) and be told to tidy the kitchen or have some comments passed over the floors not being swept.

    True story!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Salome


    I call it Irish Mammy Syndrome - I know some mothers who are so domineering over every aspect of their sons' lives that any strong woman that enters into the equation ends up battling their MIL at every turn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭lizzyvera


    Those young men are in for a shock when they find out their modern girlfriends will not do all the housework and cooking.

    Spoiling your children and looking after them excessively always does more harm than good. They end up helpless. It applies to males and females. I know girls who's daddies picked them up after nights out regularly. It promotes paranoia and dependence, just as pampering your son promotes bad diet and hygiene when they do eventually move out.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    ^ It's treating them like they are incompetent. I sometimes suspect contempt and not love is behind it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    To be fair this syndrome is quite common in the western world, back home in Sweden they are called "curling parents", they rule over their kids life, are extremely overprotecting, hook them up with good jobs when they graduate and so on. What happens when these parents die and these spoiled overprotected children who now are adults are left to their own devices?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Are Irish mothers spoiling their sons to much? Are they very domineering mothers?
    Q. How many Irish mammies does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A. "It's alright Son, don't worry about me, I'll just sit here in the dark".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 711 ✭✭✭Dr_Phil


    SLUSK wrote: »
    well into their late 20ies
    30's my dear, 30's.... :D:D:D

    I know about 6 handbags living with their mumies when the're 25-40 years of age. Don't think it's an Irish thing though. Used to know quite few in Poland too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Maybe it's a catholic thing... hear they have the same kind of culture in Italy and other latino countries.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Thephantomsmask


    Categoric proof that Jesus was Irish, he lived at home until he was 30 and his mother thought he was god. The best example I've seen was after my grandmother broke her collar bone. My lazy lump of an uncle comes in and plonks himself into the closest chair. A few minutes later my grandmother comes in trying to carry a mug of tea and a plate and apologises saying "I'm sorry about the barmbrack, I couldn't butter it properly with my bad arm"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,215 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    This is the Jewish mother stereotype too - and in fairness, stereotypes have their roots in truth... it just becomes problematic when people apply them to entire populations.
    Yeah, my gran, who doesn't apologise for thinking women are inferior to men, did absolutely everything for her sons... while her daughters are domestic goddesses. My mother isn't too bad for it though (there's a little there all right though but in fairness, her boys were gone in their early/mid 20s). I imagine it's dying out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Categoric proof that Jesus was Irish, he lived at home until he was 30 and his mother thought he was god.
    ..and he thought his mother was a virgin.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭stiff kitten


    Dr_Phil wrote: »
    30's my dear, 30's.... :D:D:D

    I know about 6 handbags living with their mumies when the're 25-40 years of age. Don't think it's an Irish thing though. Used to know quite few in Poland too.

    i dont know about you but im earning buttons and i can only laugh when i hear the cost of a decent house....it's not by choice that this group is still living with parents


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    i dont know about you but im earning buttons and i can only laugh when i hear the cost of a decent house....it's not by choice that this group is still living with parents
    And the problem with renting is?....*ducks*


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    And the problem with renting is?....*ducks*
    They say renting is "dead money" so therefore it is better to live with you parents until you are 30 and can afford the deposit for a piece of crap shoebox in North Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭Birdie086


    I thought it was bad in Ireland untill i went to Italy a for our family a few years in a row. My step father is Italian and we spent a lot of time with his family. The mothers do EVERYTHING for there boys and the grannys run around babysitting up there 80's!!!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    My mother is bad for this. I moved to a different country at 18 and started a very difficult course. I just graduated from college and straight away started looking for jobs. I'm starting a new course in September. I got so much grief about not being able to get a job, how I wasn't trying hard enough, how I should have been working all throughout my first degree anyway... It was fairly brutal.

    Meanwhile, my brother lived at home until he was 22, when he was literally handed a house of his own*. He did an arts degree, doing all the same subjects my mum had done a few years before, and bummed all her notes (still failing several exams). After college, he more or less took 5 years out to sit on his arse, working part-time here and there. He went back and did another Masters, which he's just finished, and rather than looking for jobs, he's "taking a break" and applying for the dole. To which my mum said, "Okay love". (Meanwhile, his wife works full-time, cooks, cleans, etc - and she's not even Irish!)

    A friend of mine has the same problem. Her parents funded her older brother all through uni, where he only just got a pass degree. He never worked a day and was given all he wanted. Meanwhile, she had to get a part-time job throughout uni just to be able to afford food.

    It seems quite common. My OH's mum isn't really like that at all though. Maybe it's because she lived in Germany for many years, with a German husband. And while I enjoy cooking dinner for my OH if he's been at work all day, generally we share out all the chores and things.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Faith wrote: »
    My mother is bad for this. I moved to a different country at 18 and started a very difficult course. I just graduated from college and straight away started looking for jobs. I'm starting a new course in September. I got so much grief about not being able to get a job, how I wasn't trying hard enough, how I should have been working all throughout my first degree anyway... It was fairly brutal.

    Meanwhile, my brother lived at home until he was 22, when he was literally handed a house of his own*. He did an arts degree, doing all the same subjects my mum had done a few years before, and bummed all her notes (still failing several exams). After college, he more or less took 5 years out to sit on his arse, working part-time here and there. He went back and did another Masters, which he's just finished, and rather than looking for jobs, he's "taking a break" and applying for the dole. To which my mum said, "Okay love". (Meanwhile, his wife works full-time, cooks, cleans, etc - and she's not even Irish!)

    A friend of mine has the same problem. Her parents funded her older brother all through uni, where he only just got a pass degree. He never worked a day and was given all he wanted. Meanwhile, she had to get a part-time job throughout uni just to be able to afford food.

    It seems quite common. My OH's mum isn't really like that at all though. Maybe it's because she lived in Germany for many years, with a German husband. And while I enjoy cooking dinner for my OH if he's been at work all day, generally we share out all the chores and things.

    Did you ever ask your mother why she treated you so differently?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,653 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    SLUSK wrote: »
    Did you ever ask your mother why she treated you so differently?

    No, it would probably provoke a row and accusations of me being ungrateful, so I just leave it alone.

    It was touched on recently when I moved back to Ireland. I approached my parents and asked them if they would consider helping me pay rent so that I could move out of their house. I felt this was fair given that they bought a house for my bro without him even asking for it. They refused though, and just said circumstances were different. In their defence, they did let me live in an apartment they owned free of charge throughout my undergrad in the UK, so it's not like I was homeless or anything!

    I suppose it's a bit odd, given that my mum had no brothers. I guess it's a societal thing, rather than just being learned from your own family. They do sound much worse in Italy though!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    Arrgh! Irish Mammies! :mad:
    My 22 yr old brother and 50-something father do not know how to operate a washing machine. Seriously.
    I was home recently and herself was away on holiday, so the boys required my assistance when they ran out of clothes. :rolleyes:
    I told them they were a bloody disgrace and spent the rest of the week asking them what other basic tasks they weren't able to do, but it's like water off a ducks back really.
    I've had heated arguments with mum about the way she does everything for them,then comes to me and bitches about how much work she has to do.
    Tis like talking to a brick wall. I love her, but christ she can annoy me at times! :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    ^ Lol. My 2 year old can operate the hoover.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,331 ✭✭✭✭bronte


    ^ Lol. My 2 year old can operate the hoover.

    It's unreal! I don't know if I should scream at them or feel sorry for them.
    Probably both.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭damnyanks


    Know plenty of girls do this as well. It's usually what happens to people who stay in the same village, circle of friends etc. after school. They become lazy and fall into a rut.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭cuckoo


    It can be a bit shocking to me when i come across the sons of such homes, when they can't do the simplest of things.... My brothers all know how to look after a home and themselves - there was never any difference made between us growing up in that regard.

    However, i agree with the poster upthread who mentioned that some Irish Daddies can be over protective of their daughters. I have a couple of female friends who never took a taxi or nightlink home through out their teens or twenties - they used to ring the Daddy Taxi at 4am and he'd come out in his pjs to collect them. They're now married/living with someone, and they regularly get their fellas to drive out to collect them.

    One other friend of mine rings her father to come over and put in new lightbulbs and change fuses for her, another gets her father to come over and mow the lawn and clean up the garden.

    Parents of both genders can raise children that 'need' them.

    I heard the phrase 'helicopter parent' in the US a few years ago, parents who hover around their children 24/7.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭emma82


    Yep- the god sent brothers rule the house! The mothership runs after them- they don't know how to use a washing machine, cook spuds, hoover- nothing!!!! They both work good jobs but still get 'pocket money' from the mothership!!! Its disgraceful!!! If any of the three girls in the house did that we'd get the mothership death stare!!! :mad:

    Worst of all is she fcukin moans bout running after them to all & sundry but refuses to actually do anything about it- like- I dunno- just stopping & letting the lazy lumps fend for themselves:eek::eek:!!! Both will make terrible husbands as they haven't a clue about how a house runs!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭SeekUp


    ^ Lol. My 2 year old can operate the hoover.

    As it should be!!!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh there is an element of Irish mammy syndrome, but I don't blame the women, I blame the emotionally weak men they ended up with just as much. OK 50 years ago there was some excuse with the more marked delineation of household duties, but nowadays there's little excuse. Again I lay this at the men's feet more than the women.

    In my experience when I've met a young "irish mammy tm" in training, the story is nearly always the same. Her mammy(and the other matriarchs) is the strong one at home. Her daddy follows the mammys orders completely and rarely stands up for himself and when he does it's over something trivial. The usual excuse is that they want the quiet life. I call shenanigans on that one.

    Always following orders for the quiet life is guaranteed to make the woman in his life more frustrated and more dictatorial. Basically because she's the one in control all the time and she doesn't want that. She's looking for an equal partner, but ended up with an emotionally spineless one, so she pushes the guy hoping against hope he'll react in a strong way. If he does, cool, then they have an equal partnership, if not it gets worse.

    Sadly she repeats the same environment with her sons, only with more control going on. The sons grow up to be on the surface OK, even overtly macho, but revert to type down the line as that's all they've ever been exposed to and the daughters the same. The father takes over the "irish daddy tm" role with the daughters. He's the one who will pull out all the stops to support the daughters. They never have to change a plug or put petrol in her car etc. Rinse and repeat.

    So of course the women like that need to be in control. They're the strong ones. They've no choice really as the men usually aren't. I would also say that there are more emotionally strong and adaptable women out there than equivalent men. The men may appear very together, but I have been so surprised over the years how weak that edifice was. Certainly at odds with what I would have believed as a spotty youth. The irony is that I've become far more of a feminist over the years not because of overt feminists, but more because of watching strong women in otherwise very traditional, even chauvinistic situations.

    I would agree on the latins being very similar if not worse. The Italians in particular. The boys are treated like gods, but it's even more of a control thing IMHO. On the surface it looks like the guys have all the say, but in reality the women run damn near everything. If you need anything done you go to the women. I even found that here in Ireland in a weird way. Years ago if I was down the country with my dad and we were looking to fish somewhere and needed permission, my dad always advised me to go straight to the matriarch of the family. If you passed muster with her you were good to go and none of the men would object.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Oh The Humanity


    ^^Agree with all that except the 'Irish Daddies' bit. Daughters of the old fashioned Irish Daddy were often little more than an irritation to be offloaded at the first opportunity. A 'miss' rather than a hit

    That way of thinking is so entrenched that even now when a womans first baby is a girl I find myself thinking. sh1t, well they can always try again. which is worrying.

    The way I was reared it was made clear girls were a drain/waste of money.

    This business of men treating their daughters like Princesses seems a new phenomenon to me.

    In the old days female children were openly regarded as a waste of food and were not educated and let know in no uncertain terms they were nothing but a support act to the Gods (males) who must be mollycoddled at all costs.

    Boys were the only people that mattered and girls were invisible or ignored.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    A lot of people say mammy's rule the house, In my house it was different they booth did.

    My dad tuck care of all school related matter suspension's, parent teacher meeting's, dealing with his too boys problems he made the dessions like if we where going out or how late we could stay out what sport's he introduced us to.
    Who we hung around with to a degree.

    My mum tock care of bills and food and they booth I might add did jobs around the house at the age of 65 booth of them my dad does the ironing while watching live concerts on his entertainment, system.s my mum looks after her jobs such as washing the cloths etc and they booth run a b&b and booth do the bedrooms.

    It was very different In my house hold they booth where responsible enough to,
    look after every one. I always turned to my dad, when I had a problem and my mum some times I just felt my dad was better at advise where as my mum just goes oh you poor thing which isnt really helpful...:rolleyes:

    Also my old man isnt sexist but says this a lot women can multi task but they never finish the jobs properly leave a man to do one job and its done properly.
    He owned his own company and my mum was never involved in it. Most men wives are always...


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