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Irish Rail seat reservations - what's the point?!

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Comments

  • #32
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Wise Old Elf wrote: »
    The Journal are doing an interview with Iarnród Eireann and they claim they're going to fix this problem...

    http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-seat-booking-system-1998995-Mar2015/
    They have had several years to "fix" this problem but have failed to do anything at all about it except make the situation worse by changing the sets around so that now the train you travel on could have any number of carriages from 3-9 and the booking system will usually be oblivious to the size of the train.
    seventeen sheep wrote: »
    Just happened to see the attached on the Irish Rail Twitter page ... Apparently you're entitled to a refund if you don't get the seat you booked or a similar one ... interesting to know for future reference!
    Ah yes but Irish Rail will never take your word that there was not ONE single seat on board that you could have used! and it is just about impossible to prove as most trains are unstaffed!


  • #33
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    It is a regular occurrence and has been for several years but IE have been denying any issues or problems with their reservations system for just as long so don't expect any help from that quarter.
    irish rail deny any issues. at least the others realise there are problems

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • #34
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Tow wrote: »
    This has happened to me, except we were 3 adults with 5 young (aged 3 to 8) children.

    Arrived early, got two tables beside each other, then got booted out when the signs got switched on a couple of minutes before the train departed. At this stage there were only a few seats left and we ended up spread throughout the carriage. If the signs were switched on before the train started boarding we would have been able to sit together, without any hassle.

    But I suppose this would required the drivers to change their work practices and receive extra compensation...
    no it wouldn't.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • #35
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    end of the road wrote: »
    irish rail deny any issues. at least the others realise there are problems

    Where and when have they denied that there are any issues?


  • #36
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Where and when have they denied that there are any issues?


    they bury their heads in the sand. irish rail management that is . even the staff will admit there are plenty of issues.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • #37
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    end of the road wrote: »
    they bury their heads in the sand. irish rail management that is . even the staff will admit there are plenty of issues.

    You haven't answered the question . Where and when have they denied that there aren't any issues?


  • #38
    may06
    Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭may06


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    You haven't answered the question . Where and when have they denied that there aren't any issues?

    Side stepping the reality there...
    they just dont deal with the issues thats the issue...and thats indefensible.


  • #39
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,073 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    I am literally curious about this, so here goes. Is the booking issue down to some union issue? Based on what is being related here, I cannot understand why a booking system is not being switched on BEFORE passengers board. Sounds like a work issue for driver only trains. Please correct me if I'm wrong with some evidence.


  • #40
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    I am literally curious about this, so here goes. Is the booking issue down to some union issue? Based on what is being related here, I cannot understand why a booking system is not being switched on BEFORE passengers board. Sounds like a work issue for driver only trains. Please correct me if I'm wrong with some evidence.

    From what has recently been said by Irish rail and also posted on boards it was down to communication issues with the trains in the stations and the reservations not being transmitted to the trains over the stations private WiFi networks.

    It has taken several years for someone to suggest using a sim card and using mobile broadband instead of relying on the unreliable WiFi for something that really should be better managed.

    Drivers have no input afaik into the reservations being transmitted to the train apart from when they enter the cab and turn on the communication equipment for the journey. I would imagine they would do this normally and that when WiFi is working the reservations transmit to the train without incident.

    I personally suspect that there are other issues with the system apart from transmitting the data between station and train set as dodgy/faulty WiFi seems like such a simple issue that it should have been resolved years ago.


  • #41
    number10a
    Registered Users Posts: 1,062 ✭✭✭number10a


    Systems like this really only work on an all-or-nothing basis. Imagine if Ryanair (when they had free-for-all seating) allowed you to pay extra to book a seat. By default most passengers would have no assigned seating, but they wouldn't know which seats had been reserved. Boarding the plane would have been an absolute nightmare! So instead they switched to giving everyone an assigned seat.

    Same on the trains - as is the case in most countries across Europe now. Every passenger should be given a reserved seat on their ticked, whether booked in advance or ten minutes before departure. That way, everyone is in the same boat, everyone gets it, and everyone knows what they need to do. That, or abandon seat reservations altogether. Two different systems, side by side, has never worked.


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    number10a wrote: »
    Systems like this really only work on an all-or-nothing basis. Imagine if Ryanair (when they had free-for-all seating) allowed you to pay extra to book a seat. By default most passengers would have no assigned seating, but they wouldn't know which seats had been reserved. Boarding the plane would have been an absolute nightmare! So instead they switched to giving everyone an assigned seat.

    They actually did this for quite a while, but the staff put printed out "reserved" signs on the seats. Worked perfectly tbh.


  • #43
    rubberdiddies
    Closed Accounts Posts: 717 ✭✭✭rubberdiddies


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They actually did this for quite a while, but the staff put printed out "reserved" signs on the seats. Worked perfectly tbh.

    Yep Ryanair did this for years and it worked very well. People generally dont behave badly on airlines because for one an airline won't tolerate it, will throw you off and you'll never be allowed fly with them again

    No such restrictions on a train it seems


  • #44
    malkmoose
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭malkmoose


    number10a wrote: »
    Same on the trains - as is the case in most countries across Europe now. Every passenger should be given a reserved seat on their ticked, whether booked in advance or ten minutes before departure. That way, everyone is in the same boat, everyone gets it, and everyone knows what they need to do. That, or abandon seat reservations altogether. Two different systems, side by side, has never worked.

    I can only speak for France and Finland but both these countries have a mix of reserved and unreserved seats on trains. It works because seats are marked reserved before anyone boards the train, there are staff on the train in the unlikely event of someone refusing to move. Tickets are more expensive as a result but I love taking the train.


  • #45
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users Posts: 12,073 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Thanks for clearing up how it works Foggy.


  • #46
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    rubberdiddies wrote: »
    Yep Ryanair did this for years and it worked very well. People generally dont behave badly on airlines because for one an airline won't tolerate it, will throw you off and you'll never be allowed fly with them again

    No such restrictions on a train it seems

    No such staff on a train to deal with any such issues arising.


  • #47
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    From what has recently been said by Irish rail and also posted on boards it was down to communication issues with the trains in the stations and the reservations not being transmitted to the trains over the stations private WiFi networks.

    It has taken several years for someone to suggest using a sim card and using mobile broadband instead of relying on the unreliable WiFi for something that really should be better managed.

    Drivers have no input afaik into the reservations being transmitted to the train apart from when they enter the cab and turn on the communication equipment for the journey. I would imagine they would do this normally and that when WiFi is working the reservations transmit to the train without incident.

    I personally suspect that there are other issues with the system apart from transmitting the data between station and train set as dodgy/faulty WiFi seems like such a simple issue that it should have been resolved years ago.

    The names should come up when the driver enters the train id.


  • #48
    5rtytry56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They actually did this for quite a while, but the staff put printed out "reserved" signs on the seats. Worked perfectly tbh.
    Done for me on the Westport train to Dublin about 2 years ago.


  • #49
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    may06 wrote: »
    Side stepping the reality there...
    they just dont deal with the issues thats the issue...and thats indefensible.

    No side stepping just asking when and where have they denied that there is an issue.


  • #50
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    This is more rubbish really

    There are already 3 ways to get reservations implemented and Irish Rail can't consistently make those work (WIFI, sdcard, paper). The problem is not the technology its people.

    Far too often the reservations only appear after everyone has boarded, that's not technical that's staff not setting up the system. Missing coaches and seats, that's bad planning and not technical


  • #51
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    The names should come up when the driver enters the train id.

    Only if that information has been transferred via station WiFi to the train from the station office or Irish Rail data centre. Names can only appear if they exist on the train. it's pretty basic stuff yet beyond the capability of Irish Rail.


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  • #52
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    What station office foggy?


  • #53
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,486 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    foggy_lad wrote: »

    Drivers have no input afaik into the reservations being transmitted to the train apart from when they enter the cab and turn on the communication equipment for the journey.
    I personally suspect that there are other issues with the system apart from transmitting the data between station and train set as dodgy/faulty

    I remember once I got to Heuston early for the Westport train. I had booked a seat on carriage A - I got to my seat, with my name overhead.

    2 minutes before departure, all power on the train was cut. It restarted a few seconds later, and I happened to notice I was in carriage G, with another name overhead.


  • #54
    anncoates
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    I can see why people are annoyed about it but I'd be engaged if I paid for clearly unmarked seats, especially with kids in tow, and then into the journey was turned out of them.

    Why can they not just end reservations and just simply assign a seat to a ticket when it's sold.

    I never reserve seats so I'm assuming the reason it's there as a system is either as a sweetener to book online or it costs more?


  • #55
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭cython


    anncoates wrote: »
    I can see why people are annoyed about it but I'd be engaged if I paid for clearly unmarked seats, especially with kids in tow, and then into the journey was turned out of them.

    Why can they not just end reservations and just simply assign a seat to a ticket when it's sold.

    I never reserve seats so I'm assuming the reason it's there as a system is either as a sweetener to book online or it costs more?

    2 big reasons offhand - seasonal (i.e. monthly/annual tickets), and open-ended return tickets. How do you assign a seat to those, given that they could take any one of a number of services? Short of reserving them a seat on every potential service.......

    Ok, you could do away with open-ended return, but that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, especially when you still have the issue with seasonal tickets.


  • #56
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,223 Mod ✭✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    cython wrote: »
    2 big reasons offhand - seasonal (i.e. monthly/annual tickets), and open-ended return tickets. How do you assign a seat to those, given that they could take any one of a number of services? Short of reserving them a seat on every potential service.......

    Ok, you could do away with open-ended return, but that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater, especially when you still have the issue with seasonal tickets.

    The way it normally works in the UK is they assign one coach to be unreserved and make announcements to let you know which one it is. That way you can sit in the reserved section and risk being booted out or get onto the unreserved coach early.

    I'm not sure if Irish Rail employs unreserved coaches but it could be a potential fix for some of these problems (where the tickets aren't sold out or trains have been swapped).


  • #57
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Demonique


    coylemj wrote: »
    Part of the problem is that you cannot purchase a seat online and NOT reserve a seat. People like me will sit anywhere just for a quiet life, I really can't imagine turfing an innocent passenger out of a seat just because IR insist that I sit there. If I book the train in advance, it's so that I can avoid going to the ticket desk, I don't want to reserve a seat so why force me to take one?

    I'd turf an innocent passenger out of my seat if the train was otherwise full and there was nowhere else for me to sit (unless said person was old or disabled)


  • #58
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Demonique


    paddyland wrote: »
    Most people's simple answer to this? Forget the train. Drive.

    This suits everyone in the long run.

    It suits me, because I get there quicker, cheaper, in my own time, in my own company, with more comfort, and without all the hassle.

    It certainly suits IR, who would rather run a railway without any passengers at all.

    It suits the government, because they earn more tax revenue if I drive.

    It suits everyone else on the train, because it's one less person taking up their space.

    Bottom line?

    This is Ireland. Nobody gives a damn.

    I don't drive and even if I did it would be cheaper for me to take the train.


    The train would be a lot more pleasant if people were quieter and parents learned to shut their noisy little bastards up


  • #59
    Demonique
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Demonique


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    No such staff on a train to deal with any such issues arising.

    There was a ticket inspector on the train from 1.15 train to Waterford yesterday. I complained to him about noisy passengers (shouting and yelling) in my carriage.

    His solution was that I should move to another carriage. Told him to I shouldn't have to move (also I'm pretty sure staff are supposed to deal with obnoxious passengers, cnut just didn't want to deal with it it seems).

    Ended up confronting passenger myself (first time I did it)


  • #60
    5rtytry56
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,828 ✭✭✭5rtytry56


    Demonique wrote: »
    I'd turf an innocent passenger out of my seat if the train was otherwise full and there was nowhere else for me to sit (unless said person was old or disabled)

    Here's a situation Dominique:
    Joe Goon and his stag party gave taken over the carriage where your seat is Allocated.
    Whatya gonna do?


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  • #61
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,984 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Demonique wrote: »
    There was a ticket inspector on the train from 1.15 train to Waterford yesterday. I complained to him about noisy passengers (shouting and yelling) in my carriage.

    His solution was that I should move to another carriage. Told him to I shouldn't have to move (also I'm pretty sure staff are supposed to deal with obnoxious passengers, cnut just didn't want to deal with it it seems).

    Ended up confronting passenger myself (first time I did it)
    in fairness that inspector would be from the revenue protection unit. what is needed is for the revenue protection unit to have their duties expanded from simple revenue protection back to train gard/host/whatever. then such duties will include security and dealing with any ferrel aboard the train

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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