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Does the BER really matter?

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  • 08-06-2016 4:11pm
    #1
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭


    I read up on BER ratings and how they are calculated (not in detail). In my limited opinion, there seems to be more fuzz and use about it. It appears that changing a boiler (about 2-4k Euro, incl. installation) and light bulbs (100 €) can make a lot of difference (or improvement, to be more precise).

    Now my question: Should one really care that much about the BER rating THAT much, as one would only need to put an extra 3-5k on the side to shift things around. In other words, if the house has a good structure and a nice layout, but a D or E rating, could one not just assume that a extra little money would fix that issue. My previous perception was that this are 5 digit improvements and big building projects. However it appears that there is a lot more fuzz than there actually is reason for.

    What are you thoughts? Am I thinking to simple? Please share your experiences.

    Thanks!
    Tagged:


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    #2
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    ampleforth wrote: »
    I read up on BER ratings and how they are calculated (not in detail). In my limited opinion, there seems to be more fuzz and use about it. It appears that changing a boiler (about 2-4k Euro, incl. installation) and light bulbs (100 €) can make a lot of difference (or improvement, to be more precise).

    Now my question: Should one really care that much about the BER rating THAT much, as one would only need to put an extra 3-5k on the side to shift things around. In other words, if the house has a good structure and a nice layout, but a D or E rating, could one not just assume that a extra little money would fix that issue. My previous perception was that this are 5 digit improvements and big building projects. However it appears that there is a lot more fuzz than there actually is reason for.

    What are you thoughts? Am I thinking to simple? Please share your experiences.

    Thanks!

    What's your question?
    It's a very very rough guide that is fundamentally flawed.


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    #3
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ampleforth


    The question is: How much "worth" is a bad (D,E,F) BER rating in terms of fixing it (in your experience)? If a E turns into a D for 4 or 5k € it might have as much impact as a bad floor... Ergo, are BER ratings overrated for the actual cost of fixing it?


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    #4
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    ampleforth wrote: »
    The question is: How much "worth" is a bad (D,E,F) BER rating in terms of fixing it (in your experience)? If a E turns into a D for 4 or 5k € it might have as much impact as a bad floor... Ergo, are BER ratings overrated for the actual cost of fixing it?

    If you have an A rating all is rosey. If you have an poor rating its a flag. You need to find out why the rating is bad.

    Maybe you can check the age of the boiler etc for easy fixes. The hard fixes are very expensive but the easy fixes cost a lot less.


  • Options
    #5
    Gator88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭Gator88


    I doubt changing the boiler will alter the rating much. To get the energy saving or efficiency promised with the boiler it is assumed that you have modern efficient rads with trvs, several different zones etc.

    If you have a low rating you'll never get it up to A or B. If you are asking is it worth trying to get a higher rating in order to sell the house then id say no. At least not with today's property market.


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    #6
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ampleforth


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    If you have an A rating all is rosey. If you have an poor rating its a flag. You need to find out why the rating is bad.

    Maybe you can check the age of the boiler etc for easy fixes. The hard fixes are very expensive but the easy fixes cost a lot less.

    Is there a some kind of calculator that would allow one to play with the variables of that measure? How do these evaluates work and how does the model work? I know I am asking a lot of questions, but curiosity kills the elephant, or was it the cat ? ;)


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    #7
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    If you have an A rating all is rosey. If you have an poor rating its a flag. You need to find out why the rating is bad.

    Maybe you can check the age of the boiler etc for easy fixes. The hard fixes are very expensive but the easy fixes cost a lot less.
    I think I have a d3 or something like that, we really three kids in the house and our heating bill is a fraction of what the BER says it should be, to change the 20 year old boiler would cost about 2K our gas bill is about 500 a year. So the payback on anew boiler is over 10 years. In no way does that make sense


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    #8
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ampleforth


    ted1 wrote: »
    I think I have a d3 or something like that, we really three kids in the house and our heating bill is a fraction of what the BER says it should be, to change the 20 year old boiler would cost about 2K our gas bill is about 500 a year. So the payback on anew boiler is over 10 years. In no way does that make sense

    This is the kind of stuff I heard. I also saw a news article that highlights that first time buyers are the ones who pay a lot of attention to BER (with indications to some very interesting behaviours with respect to BER):

    Comments are welcome :)


  • Options
    #9
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    I changed all my lighting to LED, reinsulated the attic, thermostats on all the radiators, relined all the windows, changed the boiler for a much more efficient pellet boiler.

    Grand total 7k. I reckon that will have brought my BER up from D1 to C3 but not much more than that.

    Everything else i can do that is listed as medium or high impact would cost thousands to fix, and would far outweight the savings in heating costs for the time which we plan to stay in the house. Only reason why i splurged 5.5k on the pellet boiler is because my partner lost her sense of smell, and was terrified of a gas leak she couldn't smell.


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    #10
    ampleforth
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭ampleforth


    That is quite a bit of cash for a boiler.

    Are there any grants that the city of Dublin/Ireland provides to change old boilers or parts of a house in order to improve the BER rating?


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    #11
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    ampleforth wrote: »
    That is quite a bit of cash for a boiler.

    Are there any grants that the city of Dublin/Ireland provides to change old boilers or parts of a house in order to improve the BER rating?

    General renovations, not just HRI scheme.
    http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/reliefs/hri/hri-general-faqs.html


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    #12
    jamo2oo9
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    Correct me if I'm wrong or I'm thinking of something else but BER isn't affected by lightbulbs or boilers. It measures how much heat is lost through the entire building/apartment through walls, windows and doors.

    If you have a well-insulated house, triple glazed windows and thick doors, the BER will be higher.


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    #13
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong or I'm thinking of something else but BER isn't affected by lightbulbs or boilers. It measures how much heat is lost through the entire building/apartment through walls, windows and doors.

    If you have a well-insulated house, triple glazed windows and thick doors, the BER will be higher.

    A BER includes electricity used for heating lighting pumps and fans

    http://www.seai.ie/Your_Building/BER/Your_Guide_to_Building_Energy_Rating.pdf


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    #14
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    ampleforth wrote: »
    That is quite a bit of cash for a boiler.

    Are there any grants that the city of Dublin/Ireland provides to change old boilers or parts of a house in order to improve the BER rating?

    Not specifically to improve the BER- but if you get a full heating system installed- zones etc- there is a grant available (no grant if you're just doing the boiler- as I discovered). Link here


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    #15
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,259 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Not specifically to improve the BER- but if you get a full heating system installed- zones etc- there is a grant available (no grant if you're just doing the boiler- as I discovered). Link here

    As usual the prices get inflated to account for the grant


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    #16
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    ted1 wrote: »
    As usual the prices get inflated to account for the grant

    Sure they do- but what you have to do- is shop around, and haggle like crazy.
    I got a nice Vokera system installed- in the depths of winter- when installer availability was next to nought- for exactly half the original quoted price.

    The list price- is by no means the going rate- you're completely nuts if you don't haggle.........


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    #17
    Santy2015
    Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Santy2015


    Just got our report for our BER Rating. The house got a rating of C1. It's not too bad. Has anyone got a C1 rating? Is it warm?


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    #18
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Santy2015 wrote: »
    Just got our report for our BER Rating. The house got a rating of C1. It's not too bad. Has anyone got a C1 rating? Is it warm?

    I live in a "C2" rated 1970's house and it performs like an "A1".
    My neighbour lives in a "B1" rated 2004 house and it performs like a "D1".
    The Building Energy Rating system is fundamentally flawed and cannot be relied upon as an indication of what a particular house will be like, especially a second hand house.


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    #19
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Honestly- as a measure of how a dwelling performs its a pretty awful guage.
    Two identical houses- can have wildly different BER scores- based on something as silly as the type of lightbulbs they have........


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    #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Its just an additional expense in the house sale process. It doesn't tell the buyer anything they couldn't observe themselves, unless they are totally clueless in their house inspection.


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    #21
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,871 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    Only reason why i splurged 5.5k on the pellet boiler is because my partner lost her sense of smell, and was terrified of a gas leak she couldn't smell.

    Could have splurged €20 instead ;)


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    #22
    robp
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,934 ✭✭✭robp


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Its just an additional expense in the house sale process. It doesn't tell the buyer anything they couldn't observe themselves, unless they are totally clueless in their house inspection.

    The impacts of different levels of insulation are not readily apparently to most people. Furthermore even if the BER didn't tell anything new an A BER score could still add value to the house.


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