Kurdistan will it ever come to pass?

Cork boy 55 · 08-07-2011 8:00pm #1

Today a turkish soldier fell on a distant battlefield
he was killed in the name of Kurdish nationlism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Kurdish_people

The Kurds about 30 million, the majority living in the Middle East.
A largely Sunni Muslim people with their own language and culture, most Kurds live in the generally contiguous areas of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Armenia and Syria – a mountainous region of southwest Asia generally known as Kurdistan ("Land of the Kurds").
They are spread across numerous nations
Yet they have no nation of their own.

Will we ever see an independent Kurdish nation?
Discuss?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Kurdish_people

Iwasfrozen · 08-07-2011 9:36pm

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Today a turkish soldier fell on a distant battlefield
he was killed in the name of Kurdish nationlism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Kurdish_people

The Kurds about 30 million, the majority living in the Middle East.
A largely Sunni Muslim people with their own language and culture, most Kurds live in the generally contiguous areas of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Armenia and Syria – a mountainous region of southwest Asia generally known as Kurdistan ("Land of the Kurds").
They are spread across numerous nations
Yet they have no nation of their own.

Will we ever see an independent Kurdish nation?
Discuss?

Ending your post with discuss is really annoying, please don't do it.

Back on topic, no I don't think an independent Kurdish nation will ever exist. The population is simply spread out across too many countries who are not going to be willing to part with huge chunks of their national teritory.

RMD · 08-07-2011 9:41pm

I don't see it happening, instead of being confined to one area of a country they're spread over 5 countries which will be next to impossible to organize a succession from to create their own country. This soldier isn't the first to fall, there's be on-going strife between the Kurds and other groups, most notably the Turks.

charlemont · 08-07-2011 9:46pm

The British and French promised them a homeland when they fought against the Ottomans in WW1, But it was a lie, I hope they continue to fight for their land in honour of Ocalan.

Nodin · 08-07-2011 9:55pm

RMD wrote: »

I don't see it happening, instead of being confined to one area of a country they're spread over 5 countries which will be next to impossible to organize a succession from to create their own country. This soldier isn't the first to fall, there's be on-going strife between the Kurds and other groups, most notably the Turks.

I think there may be hope of a Kurdish state in Northern Iraq, at some stage, but at the price of war with Turkey.

Son Of A Vidic · 09-07-2011 10:03am

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Discuss?

I had a flash back to my Leaving Cert history paper there for a minute, are you a Teacher OP?

Anyway the short answer and maintaining the general consensus here so far - there will be no independent state of Kurdistan. It would be a political and geographical nightmare to say the very least.

paulaa · 09-07-2011 12:09pm

Nodin wrote: »

I think there may be hope of a Kurdish state in Northern Iraq, at some stage, but at the price of war with Turkey.

I don't believe there will ever be an independent Kurdish state especially not in Northern Iraq. Too much oil there !!!

http://www.rferl.org/content/Who_Controls_Northern_Iraqs_Oil_Wealth/1735737.html

Overheal · 09-07-2011 3:56pm

Not without war. Something they would lose.

Sunnyisland · 09-07-2011 5:05pm

The Kurds have been subjugated by neighboring peoples for most of their history. In modern times, Kurds have tried to set up independent states in Iran, Iraq and Turkey, but their efforts have been crushed every time.

The Kurdish People

* 15 million to 20 million Kurds live in a mountainous area straddling the borders of Armenia, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. About 8 million live in southeastern Turkey.

* The Kurds are a non-Arabic people who speak a language related to Persian. Most adhere to the Sunni Muslim faith.

Turkey

* 1920: After World War I, when the Ottoman Empire is carved up, the Kurds are promised independence by the Treaty of Sevres.

* 1923: Turkish leader Mustafa Kemal Ataturk rejects the treaty, and Turkish forces put down Kurdish uprisings in the 1920s and 1930s. The Kurdish struggle lies dormant for decades.

* 1978: Abdullah Ocalan, one of seven children of a poor farming family, establishes the Kurdish Workers' Party, or PKK, which advocates independence.

* 1979: Ocalan flees Turkey for Syria.

* 1984: Ocalan's PKK begins armed struggle, recruiting thousands of young Kurds, who are driven by Turkish repression of their culture and language and by poverty. Turkish forces fight the PKK guerrillas, who also establish bases across the border in Iraq, for years. Conflict costs about 30,000 lives.

* 1998: Ocalan, who has directed his guerrillas from Syria, is expelled by Damascus under pressure from Ankara. He begins his multi-nation odyssey until he is captured in Nairobi on Jan. 15, 1999 and taken to Turkey, where he may face the death penalty.

Iran

* 1946: Kurds succeed in establishing the republic of Mahabad, with Soviet backing. But a year later, the Iranian monarch crushes the embryonic state.

* 1979: Turmoil of Iran's revolution allows Kurds to establish unofficial border area free of Iranian government control; Kurds do not hold it for long.

Iraq

* Kurds in northern Iraq -- under a British mandate -- revolt in 1919, 1923 and 1932, but are crushed.

* Under Mustafa Barzani, they wage an intermittent struggle against Baghdad.

* 1970: Baghdad grants Kurds language rights and self rule, but deal breaks down partly over oil revenues.

* 1974: New clashes erupt; Iraqis force 130,000 Kurds into Iran. But Iran withdraws support for Kurds the following year.

* 1988: Iraqis launch poison-gas attack, killing 5,000 Kurds in town of Halabja.

* 1991: After Persian Gulf War, northern Iraq's Kurdish area comes under international protection.

* 1999: Two rival Iraqi Kurdish factions, one led by Mustafa Barzani's son Massoud, the other by Jalal Talabani, broker a peace deal; goal is for Kurdish area to become part of a democratic Iraq.

SOURCES: Reuters, World Almanac,

Cant see them ever getting a country of there own as they never had one to begin with.

RandomName2 · 09-07-2011 9:57pm

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Today a turkish soldier fell on a distant battlefield
he was killed in the name of Kurdish nationlism

The Kurds about 30 million, the majority living in the Middle East.
A largely Sunni Muslim people with their own language and culture, most Kurds live in the generally contiguous areas of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Armenia and Syria – a mountainous region of southwest Asia generally known as Kurdistan ("Land of the Kurds").
They are spread across numerous nations
Yet they have no nation of their own.

Will we ever see an independent Kurdish nation?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Kurdish_people

Turkey has said that they would invade and crush any kurdish state that declares independence (whether it be inside or outside Turkey). I don't believe that the Kurds in the foreseeable future would have the means to win that fight.

Cork boy 55 · 16-07-2011 3:02pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Turkey has said that they would invade and crush any kurdish state that declares independence (whether it be inside or outside Turkey). I don't believe that the Kurds in the foreseeable future would have the means to win that fight.

Do you have a link for this

________________

Interesting developments in last week

Yesterday, the DTK, an organisation fronted by many members of the Kurdish Nationalist Party, declared democratic autonomy in South East Turkey.

Essentially what this means is, the Kurds are going to attempt to self administrate the region where they control the popular vote, whether the ruling government like it or not.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=8216democratic-autonomy8217-requires-assembly-flag-and-defense-force-says-dtk-2011-07-15

Thursday’s announcement of “democratic autonomy” in Southeast Anatolia has sparked new debate, but the system has already been tested in parts of Diyarbakır for a number of years, a leading pro-Kurdish figure has said.

Violence is escalting dozens dead

The fighting, which broke out near the town of Silvan, in Diyarbakir province, also left seven soldiers injured, two of them seriously, according to provincial governor Mustafa Toprak.

The incident took place during an army operation in the mountainous region known to be a stronghold of the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK), and the gunfire continued into the evening, according to the local sources.

The army brought in reinforcements with the help of helicopters.

The fierce clashes started a fire in a nearby forest, the sources said.

According to the Anatolia new agency, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan cancelled his engagements in Istanbul to convene an emergency meeting with the country's top security chiefs, including army commanders and interior minister Besir Atalay.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/8638727/12-Turkish-soldiers-killed-in-battle-with-Kurdish-rebels.html

Bob Z · 18-07-2011 6:56pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Turkey has said that they would invade and crush any kurdish state that declares independence (whether it be inside or outside Turkey). I don't believe that the Kurds in the foreseeable future would have the means to win that fight.

So turkey would invade Iran or Iraq?

Nodin · 18-07-2011 7:04pm

Bob Z wrote: »

So turkey would invade Iran or Iraq?

Northern Iraq. They've already bombed there and actually launched an incursion in 2008 or so.

Cork boy 55 · 23-02-2012 7:19pm

Kurds in Syria
Kurds make up about eight percent of Syria’s 22.5 million people
The kurdish population in Syria is largely in the north east of country
which is also where most of syrias oil fields are
Kurdish-inhabited area of Syria by CIA

If we see a full-scale syria civil war we could well see this area become self-automonus and try to join up with Iraq kurdistan.

By all accounts the Kurds in Syria appear to be staying neutral in the emerging civil war. They are wary of the fall of Assad fearing they as a minority could be targeted in teh secuirty vacumm by extremists and also the emerging oppostion movements links with Turkey.

http://www.kurdishglobe.net/display-article.html?id=B401BD71512EFC6525D69EA3048CD6F7
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2011/kb010611.html
http://www.rudaw.net/english/news/syria/3941.html

wes · 24-02-2012 1:06am

In the short term, they probably won't get a state of there own, but I could see a state in the distant future in Northern Iraq, but not anytime soon. Turkey right now, are the biggest obstacle to a Kurdish state. Maybe sometime in the future this could change.

Cork boy 55 · 21-09-2012 1:57am

Major recent developments

In Turkey a new report estimates that 700 people have died since I started thread the highest casualty rate in 13 years.
very heavy fighting in recent weeks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19650034

In Syria most Kurdish areas are now under independent Kurdish Militia controls
Kurdish fighters have control of 365 towns and villages in the Syrian Kurdish region by September 2012
http://www.nowlebanon.com/NewsArchiveDetails.aspx?ID=430342#ixzz24W0eLD8j

SamHarris · 21-09-2012 6:57pm

Its a shame Kurds have so little international pull for their own national movement. I can not see a state being created any time soon however. Too many states would have to be redrawn, too many of the old states would have major security concerns and too many different groups have an interest in it not happening.

Northeren Iraq is and has had near autonomy for a decade now - it has very different politics, economics and concerns to the rest of the country. The closest thing they are likely to get in decades bar some massive changes.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-09-2012 8:04pm

Historically the Kurds haven't treated local minorities well so there isn't much love lost on them locally.

SamHarris · 21-09-2012 8:22pm

Historically very very few people have treated minorities well.

It's annoying, thought not very surprising, that some people and groups who support the Palestinian cause often display their hypocrisy when the focus is shifted to the much larger Kurdish group. For too many people both situations are far more about politics than about what is best for the people.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-09-2012 9:15pm

wes wrote: »

Turkey right now, are the biggest obstacle to a Kurdish state.

But not the only one. None of the other states has any desire to see a small Kurdistan setup across the border. Because they all know there will be calls for a greater Kurdistan that incorporates many resource rich regions.

Look at the way Greece went nuts about Macedonia.

Also there are many Kurdish factions. It's like The Peoples Front Of Judea . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdish_Civil_War

pablomakaveli · 22-09-2012 4:51pm

I remember a young Irish girl was killed by a kurdish bomb n Turkey a few years ago. Found it harder to sympathize with their cause after that.

halkar · 23-09-2012 10:49am

It will never happen. Even if it does without any involvement from other countries such as Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria the so called Kurdistan would be land locked. These 4 counties would send Kurdistan to stone age just with economically.

I think Turkey and Turkish people would be happy to give south eastern part of country to Kurds if there would be agreement of population exchange similar to what happened with Greeks after independence of Turkey. What that map does not show is the majority of Kurds actually live in western Turkey with up to 4 million living in Istanbul. I do not think these Kurds would leave cities like Istanbul and live in caves of Kurdistan under the rule of dictators like Barzani or Talabani.

They also have no political unity. Barzani is no different than Saddam, Kaddafi or Esad is. He is there for the power to his last breath with his sons waiting to take over. There is no really opposition to Barzani and Talabani for many decades.

So the answer is no they will never establish a state.

Capt'n Midnight · 23-09-2012 11:28am

halkar wrote: »

I think Turkey and Turkish people would be happy to give south eastern part of country to Kurds if there would be agreement of population exchange similar to what happened with Greeks after independence of Turkey.

I hope not, that particular population exchange wasn't a picnic. The Greeks were there since the Trojan wars. The Turks got as far as the gates of Vienna.

Through the former Ottoman, Austrian-Hungarian and Russian empires at the time it was a case of grab what you can. LOTS of border wars.

Markcheese · 23-09-2012 8:56pm

There's a semi autonomous Kurdish reigon in northern Iraq, it wouldn't be a huge surprise to see one develope out of the conflict in Syria , at some point Iran will probably go through some kind of civil crisis, probably bloody... With stronger Kurdish neighbours that could end in another Kurdish reigon ... turkey ??? Who knows ...
Playing the long game I'd never say never.... As in the movie " there will be blood "

Kurdistan will it ever come to pass?

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