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The gay marriage debate on "Clare Byrne Live"

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    #92
    ongarboy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,201 ✭✭✭ongarboy


    Agreed. Undecideds will most often stick with the status quo and therefore, they are the biggest challenge for the referendum...along with complacency of liberal minded people who assume the Yes vote will pass no problem and therefore feel they don't need to vote.


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    #93
    J_E
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭J_E


    floggg wrote: »

    No, we can't ignore them. Their message will mobilise their core (who will vote), and sow doubt and confusion in the minds of undecideds and even some supporters. We need to counter them clearly and concisely, and ensure we mobilise our supporters en masse.
    You make it sound like a military operation... this is the sort of thing that makes certain groups of Yes supporters look rabid.


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    #94
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    J_E wrote: »
    You make it sound like a military operation... this is the sort of thing that makes certain groups of Yes supporters look rabid.

    I think there's rabid people on both sides to be fair.

    Iona have a greater advantage in that they are a small organisation but who's presence on the media is vast. It's easier for them to be on the one page and speak with one voice.

    I'm not sure about a military operation but I think there does need to be some coordination between the various Yes groups.

    Imagine a person being asked about the referendum by
    a USI student
    a Yes Equality person
    a LGBT Noise person

    and all getting slightly different answers?


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    #95
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    J_E wrote: »
    You make it sound like a military operation... this is the sort of thing that makes certain groups of Yes supporters look rabid.

    No, it's not a military operation but it is unfortunately a political one.

    Often just as messy.


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    #96
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,795 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    J_E wrote: »
    You make it sound like a military operation... this is the sort of thing that makes certain groups of Yes supporters look rabid.

    Thats politics. You have to engage politically or else the campaign will fall apart.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #97
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    J_E wrote: »
    You make it sound like a military operation... this is the sort of thing that makes certain groups of Yes supporters look rabid.

    Oh no a group of people organizing effectively and campaigning with enthusiasm for a right the rest of the country takes for granted! How uncouth and frightening.


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    #98
    murph82
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭murph82


    Trust me thankfully ireland is not ready for gay marriage,why do gay people need marriage to be recognised as a couple,personally marriage is an institutiion between a man and a woman,of course if passed gay couples will move onto the next step which is gay adoption,no campaigners are right to raise this fact,to say otherwise is blatant lies,this is evident from what they originally wanted to where we are today,originally they just wanted civil partnership,never happy with what they have,always want more,i feel the media is completely one sided on this debate,blatantly obvious,newspapers to the media,the no side are potrayed as dinosaurs living in the past,ireland is not ready for it,i am 32 and personally feel it is wrong,it is natural for a man and a woman to have kids,nature did not intend same sex couple to have kids,if this was the case woman would be able to conceive by themselves and vice versa,the result will be very close but unfortunately for the yes side the older generation will come out in force,your average yuppy wont care enough to go out and vote.


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    #99
    Deranged96
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    murph82 wrote: »
    Trust me thankfully ireland is not ready for gay marriage,why do gay people need marriage to be recognised as a couple,personally marriage is an institutiion between a man and a woman,of course if passed gay couples will move onto the next step which is gay adoption,no campaigners are right to raise this fact,to say otherwise is blatant lies,this is evident from what they originally wanted to where we are today,originally they just wanted civil partnership,never happy with what they have,always want more,i feel the media is completely one sided on this debate,blatantly obvious,newspapers to the media,the no side are potrayed as dinosaurs living in the past,ireland is not ready for it,i am 32 and personally feel it is wrong,it is natural for a man and a woman to have kids,nature did not intend same sex couple to have kids,if this was the case woman would be able to conceive by themselves and vice versa,the result will be very close but unfortunately for the yes side the older generation will come out in force,your average yuppy wont care enough to go out and vote.

    I hate to break it to you but Ireland is ready for it.
    We were once like the Ukraine of Western Europe but thanks be to God {except I don't actually mean God} that we as a country have evolved over the last 20 odd years into a modern and civilised people who respect human dignity.

    No disrespect to the Ukrainians


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    #100
    murph82
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭murph82


    What do you mean when you say we were once like ukraine,and ''thanks be to God {except I don't actually mean God''
    by the way im normally very good at calling referendums,looks like i will be right again,we shall see on may,dont get me wrong i could be wrong but i doubt it


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    #101
    Icefan
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Icefan


    murph82 wrote: »
    Trust me thankfully ireland is not ready for gay marriage,why do gay people need marriage to be recognised as a couple,personally marriage is an institutiion between a man and a woman,of course if passed gay couples will move onto the next step which is gay adoption,no campaigners are right to raise this fact,to say otherwise is blatant lies,this is evident from what they originally wanted to where we are today,originally they just wanted civil partnership,never happy with what they have,always want more,i feel the media is completely one sided on this debate,blatantly obvious,newspapers to the media,the no side are potrayed as dinosaurs living in the past,ireland is not ready for it,i am 32 and personally feel it is wrong,it is natural for a man and a woman to have kids,nature did not intend same sex couple to have kids,if this was the case woman would be able to conceive by themselves and vice versa,the result will be very close but unfortunately for the yes side the older generation will come out in force,your average yuppy wont care enough to go out and vote.

    Punctuation (or lack of it) aside, you seem to be confused. Gay people are currently eligible to be CONSIDERED for adoption as individuals in the same way that straight married couples or individuals are.

    The new Children and Families Relationship bill will mean that gay couples will for the first time be CONSIDERED for adoption and will become law whether the Marriage Equality referendum passes or not.

    So if you want to do your "Won't someone think of the children" routine you really should be getting in contact with your TD.


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    #102
    Deranged96
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    murph82 wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say we were once like ukraine,and ''thanks be to God {except I don't actually mean God''
    by the way im normally very good at calling referendums,looks like i will be right again,we shall see on may,dont get me wrong i could be wrong but i doubt it

    I mean that Ukraine's records on human rights aren't that great and neither is ours; what with the child abuse and all that.

    When I said I don't actually mean God, I suppose I was alluding to the part the Catholic Church has had to play in every social issue the country has ever faced since independence

    I don't know Murph, I'd nearly bet against you on this one :P I'd be shocked and even ashamed If Ireland couldn't pass gay marriage in the year 2015


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    #103
    Ten of Swords
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,163 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    My eyes are bleeding after reading all that... eek.png

    OK murph82 let's do this step by step...

    murph82 wrote: »
    Trust me thankfully ireland is not ready for gay marriage

    I'll take the referendum over your say-so, okay?
    murph82 wrote: »
    why do gay people need marriage to be recognised as a couple

    Equality, legal protections etc. Take your pick
    murph82 wrote: »
    of course if passed gay couples will move onto the next step which is gay adoption,no campaigners are right to raise this fact,to say otherwise is blatant lies,this is evident from what they originally wanted to where we are today

    Are there any circumstances where two men or two women can raise a child? Come on, even Quinn had his 'parents of last resort' speech
    murph82 wrote: »
    originally they just wanted civil partnership,never happy with what they have,always want more

    Marriage was always the end goal, not civil partnership which was all that was possible to achieve at that time.
    murph82 wrote: »
    i feel the media is completely one sided on this debate,blatantly obvious,newspapers to the media

    The no side are well represented, as you will know from any debate on the matter.
    murph82 wrote: »
    the no side are potrayed as dinosaurs living in the past,ireland is not ready for it

    They're not 'portrayed' as dinosaurs but their obvious prejudices are showing so transparently and yes, they will be received as 'dinosaurs'
    murph82 wrote: »
    the result will be very close but unfortunately for the yes side the older generation will come out in force,your average yuppy wont care enough to go out and vote.

    Then I guess you have nothing to worry about eh :pac:

    Moderator: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual & Transgender, Vegan & Vegetarian

    Category Moderator: Social & Fun



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    #104
    murph82
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭murph82


    So let me get this straight,you're against the church but for marriage,ok,last time i checked marriage was designed by the church but fair enough,you want to follow the usa mantra,by the way progress isn't always progress,you know what i mean,has society really gotten better in the last 20 or so years?personally society has gone to **** but supposedly we as a people are advancing.


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    #105
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    murph82 wrote: »
    ok,last time i checked marriage was designed by the church

    Marriage predates any of the current religions and churches by millennia, so no, it wasn't designed by the church.

    However, churches are free to marry people as they wish, and that won't change when same sex couples can marry.


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    #106
    Deranged96
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭Deranged96


    murph82 wrote: »
    So let me get this straight,you're against the church but for marriage,ok,last time i checked marriage was designed by the church but fair enough,you want to follow the usa mantra,by the way progress isn't always progress,you know what i mean,has society really gotten better in the last 20 or so years?personally society has gone to **** but supposedly we as a people are advancing.

    Yup we are advancing, and if you can't beat them you may as well join them!

    The church didn't design marriage by the way, and regardless gay marriage would have nothing to do with the church.

    Not sure what the USA manta is to be honest, tell me though please


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    #107
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,795 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    murph82 wrote: »
    last time i checked marriage was designed by the church

    It wasnt -

    Anyway - The church is not relevant in this debate - 30% of marriages in Ireland each year are civil marriages. Lesbian and gay couples are looking for equal civil marriage.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #108
    Icefan
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭Icefan


    murph82 wrote: »
    last time i checked marriage was designed by the church

    I'd check again.


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    #109
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    murph82 wrote: »
    So let me get this straight,you're against the church but for marriage,ok,last time i checked marriage was designed by the church but fair enough,you want to follow the usa mantra,by the way progress isn't always progress,you know what i mean,has society really gotten better in the last 20 or so years?personally society has gone to **** but supposedly we as a people are advancing.

    Sigh. Why is it that the people who plays the original purpose card never know the original purpose?

    The church didn't invent marriage, or even view it as a sacrament for a very long term, same sex marriages and unions have been around as long as opposite sex ones, and "traditional marriage" was a polygamous property transaction which gave the husband the right to beat, rape and even sell his wives.

    We are so far beyond that it's ridiculous.

    Also, if you are 32 you really aren't in any position to evaluate whether society has progressed or not over the last 20 years - unless you are lamenting the fact that you can't sit around and play with transformers all day.


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