Ahern to announce EUR140m State broadband initiative

Yoda · 12-12-2003 7:35pm

The Minister said on the radio this morning that there would be some fibre for some areas along with the wireless.

BArra · 12-12-2003 7:37pm

apparently my town has 1400 people... typical

has anyone got a link to the cork city DSL rollout from eircom anywhere?

cheers

bk · 12-12-2003 7:48pm

Originally posted by De Rebel

I'm not being critical of the announcement - just trying to be clear that this is a part of the solution, not the final answer. There are still outstanding components needed to complete the jigsaw - Those being the MSE and a comprehensive blueprint for last mile connectivity.

That is correct, this is only a part of the solution, but perhaps the most expensive part due to expense.

What we need for an effective national broadband infrastructure is:

1) Affordable national backhaul.

It should be possible for the MSE to negotiate with the likes of ESB and Auroa to purchase cheap backhaul, due to it's ability to aggregate demand.

2) MAN's around most town's and population areas.

Which is what we are getting now

3) An effective MSE

Hopefully the MSE will be announced in the next few weeks.

4) Last mile

I expect the 3.5Ghz licenses announced as few weeks ago will play a big part in this, but other technologies may also be possible.

It is also worth noting that given the wide dispersal of the MAN's across the country, it should be relatively easy to get point to point wireless backhaul from a MAN to all it's smaller neighbouring communities without a MAN. I expect this is planned as part of the GBS. It should be possible to cover almost 100% of the country with this.

This is an amazing event, it seems all the pieces needed to build an alternative national broadband infrastructure, completely free from Eircom, is quickly coming together.

Cork · 12-12-2003 8:24pm

I heard Dermot Ahern this morning on Radio 1's "Morning Ireland" - He has absolutely got the picture.

But Eircoms big asset is that people cannot switch from them without getting 2 bills.

I think the state has finally seen the need for broadband.

Ripwave · 12-12-2003 8:32pm

Originally posted by bk
4) Last mile

I expect the 3.5Ghz licenses announced as few weeks ago will play a big part in this, but other technologies may also be possible.

I wish I felt as confident. But if it's going to be limited to line of sight technology that requires the erection of an aerial on every customers roof, I think the 3.5GHz licenses will be (yet another) lost opportunity.

Ripwave · 12-12-2003 8:42pm

Originally posted by Cork
But Eircoms big asset is that people cannot switch from them without getting 2 bills.

As Eircom were supposed to allow CPS providers to provide single billing long before now (they even put your line rental charge up to pay for it), this will be a nice opportunity for Dermot to put his money where his mouth is!

Mr Ahern also intends to bring in tougher fines for telecommunications companies that breach the law with fines equal to 10% of total revenue envisaged

I'll believe it when I see it, but cynical old me expects an announcement just in time to scoop up the anti-eircom vote at the local elections in June, and then nothing happening after the votes are counted.

Ripwave · 12-12-2003 8:45pm

Originally posted by molinaalexis
According with the numbers obtained from
http://www.dcmnr.gov.ie/files/Dec-13A%20List%20only%20of%20Towns.doc
Longford have in 2002 7,557,

that would be Longford Town.

However in: http://www.cso.ie/census/pdfs/vol1_entire.pdf
Longford had in 1996 30,166 and in 2002 31,068

that would be County Longford.

Actually the CSO document says that 7557 is to total number of people living in all towns in Longford - is Longford the only town in Co Longford?

De Rebel · 12-12-2003 8:51pm

Originally posted by bk
4) Last mile

I expect the 3.5Ghz licenses announced as few weeks ago will play a big part in this, but other technologies may also be possible.

What I see as missing is a comprehensive plan for last mile. That continues to be the "woolliest" part of the equation.

Originally posted by bk

This is an amazing event, it seems all the pieces needed to build an alternative national broadband infrastructure, completely free from Eircom, is quickly coming together.

Agreed, and the eircom-independent aspect is very important if we are to see competition in the marketplace. That is where the regulator has singularly failed. It’s becoming clearer and clearer that Comreg should be abolished and its functions subsumed back into the Dept. of Comms.

De Rebel · 12-12-2003 9:00pm

Originally posted by Cork
I think the state has finally seen the need for broadband.

One could also argue that "the state" (or whatever you mean by that) still hasn't got a clue what broadband actually is. What this announcement proposes delivering is fibre and GDS. It does not propose to deliver Broadband. It once again delivers on part of the equation, but does not show any evidence of a comprehensive end to end solution. Typical Irish infrastructure mis-management is alive and well.

nahdoic · 12-12-2003 9:04pm

Seeing the need for broadband and developing an effective solution are two very different things.

We've know for some time that Dermot Aherne really does understand the problem. (unlike his worse than useless predecessor)

The lastmile is still a problem in rural and urban areas.

bealtine · 12-12-2003 9:06pm

Originally posted by De Rebel

Agreed, and the eircom-independent aspect is very important if we are to see competition in the marketplace. That is where the regulator has singularly failed. It’s becoming clearer and clearer that Comreg should be abolished and its functions subsumed back into the Dept. of Comms.

Hear hear

There is no doubt whatsoever that a bunch of more ineffectual lapdogs
has never been in this country...

Their job seems to be to pander to the telcos and stuff the consumer
at every turn.
Imagine a regulator that drops the paltry USO requirement from 2400 bd
to 0 bd...and can still dare to call itself a regulatory instrument.

What a bunch of "mé féiners" aka tossers

De Rebel · 12-12-2003 9:08pm

Originally posted by nahdoic
Seeing the need for broadband and developing an effective solution are two very different things.

We've know for some time that Dermot Aherne really does understand the problem. (unlike his worst than useless predecessor)

Can I infer from the above that you believe that Dermot Ahern sees the need but has failed to develop an effective solution ?

nahdoic · 12-12-2003 9:13pm

No. It means even with the best of intentions you can't snap your fingers and make the world a better place.

spongebob · 12-12-2003 9:16pm

Much of the missing link you mention is under Dermot Aherns DIRECT control.

Dermot does not seem to have ordered/persuaded the ESB and RTE and the Aviation Authority , all of whom come under his control as the sole shareholder, all of whom already control a large mast system and backhaul from those masts, to open access up to the GDS at a reasonable rate.

I would expect an announcement on that within the next month if the announcement today is to mean anything. It would prove that the policy was formulated in a joined up way. The list of towns issued today, allegedly 88 towns with no DSL/Cable , contains at least 10 towns that ALREADY have live DSL such as Dunshaughlin, Oranmore, Newbridge , Clane, Kinsale, Longford and others too. 10 out of 80 is a lot and calls into question the logic behind the formulation of the list such as

Did anybody bother to ring Eircom and ask them ?

Opening up access to masts under state control, where the public has alrbeady invested heavily in their provision over the years through their electricity bills and tv licences and plane tickets , to local GDS groups at a reasonable cost (given the footprint of an FWA system on a mast) is the essential step that Dermot Ahern must take to open up the last mile.

M

De Rebel · 12-12-2003 9:22pm

Originally posted by nahdoic
No. It means even with the best of intentions you can't snap your fingers and make the world a better place.

18 months in office is hardly a snap of the fingers.

Incidentally, I am not getting at Ahern, or DCMNR - they have actually achieved quite a lot in the last while. The problems are more to do with (a) Dept of Finance's excessive control (b) the overall inability of this (and most previous) government's ability to plan infrastructure development.

nahdoic · 12-12-2003 9:32pm

18 months in office is hardly a snap of the fingers

I never said it was. They have accomplised a lot in those 18 months.

De Rebel · 12-12-2003 9:37pm

Originally posted by nahdoic
I never said it was. They have accomplised a lot in those 18 months.

So what exactly is the point of your original post?

nahdoic · 12-12-2003 9:53pm

I think the state has finally seen the need for broadband. - Cork

Seeing the need for broadband and developing an effective solution are two very different things. - nahdoic

I was distinguishing the difference between seeing the need for broadband and developing an effective solution ... I'm afraid I can't state it any simplier for you De Rebel.

De Rebel · 12-12-2003 9:59pm

Originally posted by nahdoic
I think the state has finally seen the need for broadband. - Cork

Seeing the need for broadband and developing an effective solution are two very different things. - nahdoic

I was distinguishing the difference between seeing the need for broadband and developing an effective solution ... I'm afraid I can't state it any simplier for you De Rebel.

In other words, Dermot Ahern sees the need but has failed to develop an effective solution ? Is that it?

Gonzo · 12-12-2003 10:13pm

I dont think the Dunshaughlin exchange is fully live yet, many people here are capable of getting it altho its not ready to order and does not show up as activated on eircoms website

bk · 12-12-2003 10:30pm

Originally posted by De Rebel
In other words, Dermot Ahern sees the need but has failed to develop an effective solution ? Is that it?

On the contrary, I believe that we are about to see the development of an effective solution over the next 6 months.

As I said earlier there are four things that we need to get an effective alternative broadband infrastructure. In the space of just one month, we have gotten two of the necessary points (3.5GHz and more MAN's).

We expect to hear about the awarding of the MSE in the next few weeks.

And finally rumours have been flying around about the last point (affordable national infrastructure) for awhile now, I imagine we will hear more about this after the MSE is announced.

The problems we have faced with the last mile have been mostly caused by Eircom, with this new alternative infrastructure, it will allow many new hungry companies like IBB to enter the market and really compete.

And I'm not just talking about 3.5GHz line of sight, we are likely to see NLOS, 2.4GHz, 5+GHz wireless. We may even see other interesting possibilities such as cable, unbundled telephone and MMDS.

Eurorunner · 13-12-2003 10:10am

The BMW can't even finish Ballyhaunis I hear the Comptroller and Auditor General could be taking an interest in the BMW and its monitoring of expenditure , they are unfit to be given any responsibility for a dig of any sort given the funds involved IMO .

Whats the word on this then Muck? My understanding was that they would have their first customers signed up round now in either Ballyhaunis or Ballinlough....

Also, what ever happened with the ESBs trials in Tuam (i suspect i already know but have to ask anyway just in case)?

De Rebel · 13-12-2003 12:20pm

Originally posted by bk
As I said earlier there are four things that we need to get an effective alternative broadband infrastructure. In the space of just one month, we have gotten two of the necessary points (3.5GHz and more MAN's).
<snip>
And I'm not just talking about 3.5GHz line of sight, we are likely to see NLOS, 2.4GHz, 5+GHz wireless. We may even see other interesting possibilities such as cable, unbundled telephone and MMDS.

And as I said earlier, the missing component is a comprehensive planfor last mile. I agree that the other three components are coming together. I agree that there have been and will continue to be welcome developments in relation to last mile. But there is no comprehensive planfor last mile.

That needs to be addressed if there is to be equality of access for all. And it is a policy issue, and therefore the government's job to do it.

yellum · 13-12-2003 5:06pm

Originally posted by bk
we are likely to see NLOS, 2.4GHz, 5+GHz wireless. We may even see other interesting possibilities such as cable, unbundled telephone and MMDS.

That could really have been taken from a Etain speech about 4 years ago in fairness.

bk · 13-12-2003 6:21pm

Originally posted by yellum
That could really have been taken from a Etain speech about 4 years ago in fairness.

Aaaarrrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

I'll just go and fall on my sword now.

bk · 13-12-2003 6:25pm

Originally posted by De Rebel
And as I said earlier, the missing component is a comprehensive planfor last mile. I agree that the other three components are coming together. I agree that there have been and will continue to be welcome developments in relation to last mile. But there is no comprehensive planfor last mile.

That needs to be addressed if there is to be equality of access for all. And it is a policy issue, and therefore the government's job to do it.

I believe we will see a comprehensive plan in the next few months. 6 months max.

The first major shot of this plane was made by the minister on Friday, I expect more clarification to follow, probably around when the MSE is announced, as the MSE will likel play a major part in driving and facilitating the plan.

Mr_Man · 13-12-2003 8:25pm

If this government manages to produce a plan for the last mile which makes sense in a joined up way then it will be a first. If they are then able to put the necessary resources in place to implement such a plan it will be an even bigger shock.

Remember what the Government are doing here is making up for the complete shambles they left the country in when Mary sold Eircom to the people who already owned it. She did it in a way which created a monopoly which had no interest in investing in the future. Then created the toothless wonder that is Comreg to ensure competition which has yet to arrive.

So while the recent announcements are to be welcomed, by those of us on the wrong side of the digital divide, I'll believe it when I'm looking at my BB modem and its plugged in and working.

M.

Ahern to announce EUR140m State broadband initiative

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