Cheap Chinese ditch finders

keithclancy · 16-03-2012 2:03pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't want to get into the argument about speed limits, but if you drive
like that the 1% difference that cheap tyres apparently make is magnified,
so you're opinion while probably valid on how the tyre operates at 180kph
is useless to me.

It's far from high horsery, I just don't drive like that so the tyre being useless at 180 clicks is meaningless to me.

The flux capacitor does not kick at 141.6 km/h, you will not end up back in 1885

On a serious note you might be better of getting a lower rated tyre:
http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyrspeed.html

R or S rated would do you if you never drive over 170.

conzy · 16-03-2012 2:13pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't want to get into the argument about speed limits, but if you drive
like that the 1% difference that cheap tyres apparently make is magnified,
so you're opinion while probably valid on how the tyre operates at 180kph
is useless to me.

It's far from high horsery, I just don't drive like that so the tyre being useless at 180 clicks is meaningless to me.

You still think the difference between ditch finders and good tyres is only apparent at high speeds or while "driving like a dick"?

On a rainy day if a child steps out in front of a car travelling 60km/h (yes this is a 50km/h zone just to really get your juices flowing

) if the car has ditch finders the child's chances are a lot less than if the car had good tyres with good wet grip.

I would say the stopping distance is 80% longer with ditch finders

Borderfox · 16-03-2012 2:15pm

Best tyres I ever had were Goodyear Eagle F1's worst are the two Triangles on the front of my Citroen C5 although they are not lethal by any means, I have had Nankangs and found them much better than the triangles and quite a few branded tryes I have had Falken ZE-502's come to mind.

puppetmaster · 16-03-2012 2:16pm

RoverJames wrote: »

I find the Accelera Phi very good, they're almost done now though after 15,000 miles.

I put a pair of accelera's on the oul chaps jeep to see how they were, very impressed buy them have put them on other things too. Their much better than the handkooks i took off, Better grip, road noise etc. dunno about longevity yet though.

@ Dr Fuzz, I stuck a pair of semperit speed lifes on the front there about 3 months ago, they were at a good price and a somewhat decent name. I find them pretty good, grippy enough. Do you notice yours being noisey on roundabouts though?

Anan1 · 16-03-2012 2:22pm

conzymaher wrote: »

On a rainy day if a child steps out in front of a car travelling 60km/h (yes this is a 50km/h zone just to really get your juices flowing ) if the car has ditch finders the child's chances are a lot less than if the car had good tyres with good wet grip.

So the benefit of spending more on good tyres is cancelled out by the decision to exceed the speed limit?;)

Mycroft H · 16-03-2012 2:30pm

conzymaher wrote: »

You still think the difference between ditch finders and good tyres is only apparent at high speeds or while "driving like a dick"?

On a rainy day if a child steps out in front of a car travelling 60km/h (yes this is a 50km/h zone just to really get your juices flowing ) if the car has ditch finders the child's chances are a lot less than if the car had good tyres with good wet grip.

I would say the stopping distance is 80% longer with ditch finders

I'm going to be skeptical about the 80 percent figure. Anything to back it up?

keithclancy · 16-03-2012 2:36pm

BX 19 wrote: »

I'm going to be skeptical about the 80 percent figure. Anything to back it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2c9Ry0JfMw

Not 50km/h but here a comparison at 70mph

Merch · 16-03-2012 2:39pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

There's a lot of guff talked about unbranded tyres on this forum.

Is there any real proof that these tyres wear faster or don't grip as well as branded European ones.

In my experience they dont/didn't wear faster, they seemed to be harder wearing/longer lasting, but then again I dont do much miles these days. Not that long lasting is that good of a thing, just that you have a poorer performing tyre on the vehicle for longer because it still has greater than the minimum thread depth.

If you aren't driving much/the distances aren't long, they could suffice, especially if you are someone just pottering around doing errands locally and dont build up speed, all the same you would be as well with a better performing tyre that costs only slightly more or a part worn tyre of a better make.

I paid around only 20 euro extra per tyre for new named brand from their cheaper end, over the cheapo chinese versions I had (believe me, I tried a few different types, they were all pretty poor at least, to very bad, one set were horrendous) when replacing two tyres on the front. The difference of the name brand pair was significant, and to be honest I was lucky, I didnt even do a review on them.

The only proof I have is my experience, its enough for me.

C4Kid · 16-03-2012 2:41pm

I'm still getting used to the continentals but I noticed a considerable difference in grip when braking hard this morning on a soaked dual carriageway.

I ended slowing a bit too much which I wasn't expecting as I was so used to allowing extra distance to stop on chinese tyres.

Mycroft H · 16-03-2012 2:43pm

keithclancy wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2c9Ry0JfMw

Not 50km/h but here a comparison at 70mph

Thats nowhere near 80% more. I still know which I would prefer but no exactly the most balanced test.

keithclancy · 16-03-2012 2:53pm

BX 19 wrote: »

Thats nowhere near 80% more. I still know which I would prefer but no exactly the most balanced test.

Well you can use percentage any way you want, but distance if its a meter more it can be the difference between not hitting someone and someone ending up on your bonnet.

Still though, your right in that respect, I would almost definitely say its not 80%.

Maybe 30% more.

Borderfox · 16-03-2012 2:58pm

linglong

great name and quite apt too.

tossy · 16-03-2012 2:59pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't want to get into the argument about speed limits, but if you drive
like that the 1% difference that cheap tyres apparently make is magnified,
so you're opinion while probably valid on how the tyre operates at 180kph
is useless to me.
.

Try reading my post again chuck,plus your attitude leaves a lot to be desired,and your knowledge is seriously lacking e.g you see the merit of levis over cheapo jeans but don't see the merit of a premium brand tyre over a no name or cheap brand??? that's a seriously flawed logic as most premium brand tyre manufacturers are actively involved in motorsport and spend millions in R&D,sure all levis have to do is buy slightly better denim and use fancier sewing machines to put it together

unkel · 16-03-2012 3:00pm

BX 19 wrote: »

Thats nowhere near 80% more. I still know which I would prefer but no exactly the most balanced test.

Shocking difference all the same. At the point where the car with the good tyres had completely stopped, the same car with the crap tyres was still doing 50km/h. The difference between not hitting a pedestrian and almost certainly killing the pedestrian

Please folks, don't buy this crap. Save your money elsewhere, not on tyres.

Merch · 16-03-2012 3:04pm

BX 19 wrote: »

I had Austone tyres on my Xantia when I bought them. For Chinese tyres they were rather good.

Grip in the dry was rather good, even when pushing the car a bit. Wet grip was a bit different, a little bit worse, but still very drivable. The ABS did kick in a little bit more often the then wet under emergency braking a little bit more then the Verdsteins that replaced them. However, I never was afraid of driving with them.

They were a softer compound I think, the thread wore out as quick enough.

I am sure there probably are good quality chinese (or from elsewhere) tyres, but maybe the price doesnt make it viable to sell them here to compete with existing name brands, that for the same or a similar price people will go for instead.
Or as you yourself have stated when performance did exist, the tyre wore out quicker?
What we need is a good quality chinese (or elsewhere) tyre at a budget price, unfortunately I think these tyres have picked up a bad reputation and even I would be wary now.

In the dry, I didnt even have a problem when i had cheap tyres but in the wet was another story altogether, as we have so much wet weather, I think currently its not worth it.

BX 19 wrote: »

I'm going to be skeptical about the 80 percent figure. Anything to back it up?

I would be wary of any one figure outright, but that doesnt mean I think they are good. I think the performance of any tyre is going to vary with the car type and weight and the conditions, Id even say the performance at low speeds might even be worse as a percentage(or not as expected), I dont think the reduction in performance will be linear as speed increases (and I dont mean whether the vehicle stays in a straight line).

Even at low speed i felt the performance (grip) deteriorated rapidly at low speed.
To be honest once I really became aware they were not good in the wet I never really pushed the performance envelope as it wasn't that broad.

Edit I see someone got there before me, re the percent increase and the preference to use distance even rather than a percent, I would have suggested a 30% increase, but I dont think that was at all speeds, at times at low speed I felt that would be a greater percent, ie 80% (in the wet) but that might have meant travelling a metre extra, whereas at a greater speed it might be 30% extra but could entail travelling quite a distance over what would be considered a good/normal stopping distance, hence me not believing performance is linear or as might intuitively be expected as speed increases.

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 3:20pm

tossy wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't want to get into the argument about speed limits, but if you drive
like that the 1% difference that cheap tyres apparently make is magnified,
so you're opinion while probably valid on how the tyre operates at 180kph
is useless to me.
.

Try reading my post again chuck,plus your attitude leaves a lot to be desired,and your knowledge is seriously lacking e.g you see the merit of levis over cheapo jeans but don't see the merit of a premium brand tyre over a no name or cheap brand??? that's a seriously flawed logic as most premium brand tyre manufacturers are actively involved in motorsport and spend millions in R&D,sure all levis have to do is buy slightly better denim and use fancier sewing machines to put it together

Maybe try reading my post again.

I recognise that there is a prestige value in buying mercs, Levis, apple but I think you get practically the same functionality in Toyota, pennies, dell.

Tea 1000 · 16-03-2012 3:21pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

I apply it to most things. In many cases the only difference between a branded product and a generic one is the name and the money spent advertising and building brand recognition.

I agree that in some cases there is a prestige value in buying the more expensive branded version. A pair of expensive branded jeans versus a cheap pair from a high street shop. One clearly has a value above the other but both are equally effective as a pair of trousers.

I do have to admit I rarely buy tyres, maybe once every three years, it's not a big expense for me, so I tend to go for the branded versions, however I just bought a car that has two new triangle tyres on the front and two unbranded ones on the back and they seem perfect.

My oh always buys the cheapest she can find and they seem grand also.

If you can't tell the difference, it just means that you're not a great driver. It doesn't mean that there isn't a difference.

Indricotherium wrote: »

I don't want to get into the argument about speed limits, but if you drive
like that the 1% difference that cheap tyres apparently make is magnified,
so you're opinion while probably valid on how the tyre operates at 180kph
is useless to me.

It's far from high horsery, I just don't drive like that so the tyre being useless at 180 clicks is meaningless to me.

The difference is far greater than 1%, but your mind seems closed to this fact, despite what everyone on here from their own experience is telling you.

I really think it's time for our Government to come up with a tyre rating system similar to the Euro NCAP tests, and give tyres a rating. Then people could actually see that spending €50 on a one-star tyre is silly when €60 would get you a 3-and-a-half star tyre.
I'd also approve a system where if your NCT report shows that you have 1 star tyres on, then a 15% premium is added to your annual motor tax.

tossy · 16-03-2012 3:25pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Maybe try reading my post again.

I recognise that there is a prestige value in buying mercs, Levis, apple but I think you get practically the same functionality in Toyota, pennies, dell.

I apologise you did indeed make that point - however my above post still stands regards R&D motorsport experience etc.I think you came here with the opinion charlie cheapo tyres are just as good as the fancy ones and you are not for turning, am i wrong?

Chuck_Norris · 16-03-2012 3:27pm

tossy wrote: »

Try reading my post again chuck,plus your attitude leaves a lot to be desired,and your knowledge is seriously lacking e.g you see the merit of levis over cheapo jeans but don't see the merit of a premium brand tyre over a no name or cheap brand??? that's a seriously flawed logic as most premium brand tyre manufacturers are actively involved in motorsport and spend millions in R&D,sure all levis have to do is buy slightly better denim and use fancier sewing machines to put it together

Where am I coming into this? Dunno how to make others comments come out in bold/ highlight them.

conzy · 16-03-2012 3:31pm

Yes Dell and Apple computers are essentially the same under the surface and Apple command a premium. But this does not apply to linglong and Michelin..

I'm sure if you went to the rock climbing forum and said you can get harnesses for 1/4 of the price from hong kong on ebay they would have the same reaction.

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 3:38pm

tossy wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Maybe try reading my post again.

I recognise that there is a prestige value in buying mercs, Levis, apple but I think you get practically the same functionality in Toyota, pennies, dell.

I apologise you did indeed make that point - however my above post still stands regards R&D motorsport experience etc.I think you came here with the opinion charlie cheapo tyres are just as good as the fancy ones and you are not for turning, am i wrong?

It's not that I won't change my mind but what I'm really looking for is like you say a chart that says triangle tyres 1 star, michelan 3 star.

One that's been put together by ncap or the like.

tossy · 16-03-2012 3:40pm

conzymaher wrote: »

I'm sure if you went to the rock climbing forum and said you can get harnesses for 1/4 of the price from hong kong on ebay they would have the same reaction.

the memebers of the S+M forum would be equally as shocked

Tea 1000 · 16-03-2012 3:42pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

It's not that I won't change my mind but what I'm really looking for is like you say a chart that says triangle tyres 1 star, michelan 3 star.

One that's been put together by ncap or the like.

Doesn't exist yet. But there was a time a few years ago that the NCAP tests didn't exist, and back then it didn't mean that all cars performed the same in a crash, it simply meant that no one was measuring.... or actually Volvo and Saab were, but back then the other you of the past was probably criticising them for just marketing and saying that all cars are the same because there is no newspaper that shows otherwise!

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 3:55pm

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Doesn't exist yet. But there was a time a few years ago that the NCAP tests didn't exist, and back then it didn't mean that all cars performed the same in a crash, it simply meant that no one was measuring.... or actually Volvo and Saab were, but back then the other you of the past was probably criticising them for just marketing and saying that all cars are the same because there is no newspaper that shows otherwise!

People were saying Renaults were death traps and rovers were safe as houses too.

Not the case as the ncap has shown.

djimi · 16-03-2012 4:11pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Maybe try reading my post again.

I recognise that there is a prestige value in buying mercs, Levis, apple but I think you get practically the same functionality in Toyota, pennies, dell.

In fairness there is a world of difference between the quality of Levis jeans and something you would buy in Penneys. If dont agree with this then I would have to conclude that you have never worn or owned either...

As for the tires, there is a noticable difference with the more expensive branded tires. I cant remember what I had on my Civic but when I switched to a set of decent Bridgestones the whole car felt different; better braking, handling, quieter etc. Im sure the cheap budget tires are fine in so far as they meet the minimum safety spec, but that spec isnt particularly high, and when it comes to the only thing that keeps my car on the road, I sure as hell am not going to buy the brand that only just about makes the grade...

Indricotherium · 16-03-2012 4:16pm

djimi wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Maybe try reading my post again.

I recognise that there is a prestige value in buying mercs, Levis, apple but I think you get practically the same functionality in Toyota, pennies, dell.

In fairness there is a world of difference between the quality of Levis jeans and something you would buy in Penneys. If dont agree with this then I would have to conclude that you have never worn or owned either...

As for the tires, there is a noticable difference with the more expensive branded tires. I cant remember what I had on my Civic but when I switched to a set of decent Bridgestones the whole car felt different; better braking, handling, quieter etc. Im sure the cheap budget tires are fine in so far as they meet the minimum safety spec, but that spec isnt particularly high, and when it comes to the only thing that keeps my car on the road, I sure as hell am not going to buy the brand that only just about makes the grade...

Could there be an element of switching from old worn tyres to brand new ones in that though.

It will have been months at least since you drove the civic with fresh tyres.

Tea 1000 · 16-03-2012 4:18pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Could there be an element of switching from old worn tyres to brand new ones in that though.

It will have been months at least since you drove the civic with fresh tyres.

Nope. Recently had a rental car with crap, but new tyres. They were dreadful, worse than the worn out good brand that I recently took off my wife's car.

Merch · 16-03-2012 4:20pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

People were saying Renaults were death traps and rovers were safe as houses too.

Not the case as the ncap has shown.

By all means buy the cheap tyres, I would pay heed to the warnings and take it handy on them till you determine when (if) they are ok and when not.
I did find mine ok in the dry but, rapidly lose grip in the wet

djimi · 16-03-2012 4:21pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

Could there be an element of switching from old worn tyres to brand new ones in that though.

It will have been months at least since you drove the civic with fresh tyres.

Absolutely not, no. The tires that were on it were new when I got the car, and at no point did the car ever feel as good as it did when I put on the Bridgestones.

Nissan doctor · 16-03-2012 4:22pm

Indricotherium wrote: »

-Corkie- wrote: »

What I'm rabbiting on about is that this seems to be a situation where massive advertising has created an image around certain brands that is meaningless.

All tyres sold on this country meet the same safety standards.

Some people seem to believe that European corporations who manufacture tyres will go above and beyond that safety standard, and also that other brands will be below it.

No they don't.

Cheap Chinese ditch finders

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