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Finian McGrath on cycling on footpaths again

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    #32
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    bigar wrote: »
    How peculiar, watched two gaurds yapping away walking side by side on the footpath on Talbot street and noticed a van parked on the path in front of them. They formed a single file and squeezed through the narrow space, without batting an eyelid.
    Footpaths are for foot traffic unless a designated parking zone has been included on it but that in itself can be a danger to pedestrians as they may be forced walking on the road due to narrow footpaths and not seen by cars coming from behind,.............especially when you hav,nt been born with eyes in the back of your head.

    Wait a second?!?

    Are all footpads not designated parking zones????


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    #33
    geosynchronous orbit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭geosynchronous orbit


    monument wrote: »
    Wait a second?!?

    Are all footpads not designated parking zones????

    If you put on your hazard warning lights, then yes, yes they are .....(apparently)


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    #34
    on_the_nickel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭on_the_nickel


    NormalBob Ubiquitypants wrote: »
    I have no data beyond empirical evidence, but it would appear that women also cycle bikes and drive cars. As shocking as this may seem, both genders have been accused of dangerous cycling/driving.

    Well, at the risk of refuting your inferred accusation of some kind of positive sexism, in my experience, it's by and large men doing both the above.


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    #35
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Perhaps they need to station a few guards and do a zero tolerance week at this mystery location.

    Stop and fine every single cyclist on the footpath.

    While they are there can can also fine or give points to everyone who parks illegally, stops in the middle of the road to let their kids out, walks across the road against a red light, drives through a red light (or an amber light for that matter) or is holding their phone while driving.

    The guards should probably mention that this crackdown is thanks to the efforts of TD McGrath. It's not like anyone would be up in arms about someone else while turning a blind eye to the sort of infractions they are guilty of.

    For the record I have no time for people who cycle on the footpath (assuming it is not actually one of those poorly marked half-assed shared use facilities). I think McGrath is just engaging in a bit of populist rabble rousing though.


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    #36
    RobertFoster
    Registered Users Posts: 9,119 ✭✭✭RobertFoster


    If they don't want people cycling on footpaths, why do they continue to make shared use and elevated cycle tracks?

    I've noticed on the Rathbeale Rd in Swords there's No Cycling signs painted on the paths. Perhaps Finian could get something similar done in his constituency.


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    #37
    nak
    Registered Users Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭nak


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    There are lights on Aungier St which change at the press of a button, between the Swan and Whitefriars.

    Takes about 30s to change again after the red person lights up

    I regularly see people drive and cycle through that red light, great when you're trying to cross the road.


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    #38
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    on_the_nickel wrote: »
    What's the problem with this?

    Cycling on the footpath is illegal, and rightly so. If you do it, you deserve a fine, if you don't, this doesn't affect you?

    Is it illegal for all ages? if not at what age does it apply?


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    #39
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    beauf wrote: »
    Is it illegal for all ages? if not at what age does it apply?
    Depends what you mean by illegal.


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    #40
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    Perhaps they need to station a few guards and do a zero tolerance week at this mystery location.

    Stop and fine every single cyclist on the footpath.

    This seems an excellent idea, without the typical whataboutery you also posted. Lawbreakers and louts should be dealt with, without reference to what other people are apparently getting away with.


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    #41
    SilverLiningOK
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭SilverLiningOK


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    Perhaps they need to station a few guards and do a zero tolerance week at this mystery location.

    Stop and fine every single cyclist on the footpath.

    While they are there can can also fine or give points to everyone who parks illegally, stops in the middle of the road to let their kids out, walks across the road against a red light, drives through a red light (or an amber light for that matter) or is holding their phone while driving.

    The guards should probably mention that this crackdown is thanks to the efforts of TD McGrath. It's not like anyone would be up in arms about someone else while turning a blind eye to the sort of infractions they are guilty of.

    For the record I have no time for people who cycle on the footpath (assuming it is not actually one of those poorly marked half-assed shared use facilities). I think McGrath is just engaging in a bit of populist rabble rousing though.

    Could be Griffith Avenue, as TD lives just off it and there quite a number of schools at that end (Malahide Road). He is completely out of order if it's there. Road there feels very unsafe with most traffic breaking speed limit, including HGVs that are too high for Dublin Port Tunnel. The road even for me, an experienced cyclist, feels very uncomfortable and I tend to avoid using it if at all possible. I certainly wouldn't advise children to cycle on that road given its unsuitability. It would be more in line for the TD to be calling for the building of safe fit for purpose properly designed cycle infrastructure. Footpath cycling would practically be eliminated if a safe space for cycling was available.

    I was in the Netherlands a few week ago and experienced what well designed cycle network can mean. It allows everybody from 8 to 80 to choose to use a bicycle to get about safely. Don't say our roads are not wide enough, when you can clearly see that they are. Road space just needs to be reallocated, that's all.


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    #42
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Lumen wrote: »
    Depends what you mean by illegal.

    Basically if you look young enough to have a parent come down to the station and rip the super a new one over the stupidity because they are too young.

    Then it's not illegal as the child will never be charged.

    On a related note, seen a dad escorting his son through Donnybrook like a boss the other day. About 6 yo doing 30 kph as his dad had his hand on his back. Coming to traffic he lifted the hand and the son drafted him like a pro. Son signalled coming upto a bus that was closing in, hit the brakes and pulled up.

    This is cycling the way an adult should, observation, awareness and intelligence, fair play to his dad on the excellent road training.


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    #43
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Lumen wrote: »
    Depends what you mean by illegal.

    I'd assume the law is specific?

    Considering the way cycle lanes just end...


    http://cyclingindublin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7015693047_544f9329dd_z.jpg

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4912749437/in/pool-908348@N25/


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    #44
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    beauf wrote: »
    I'd assume the law is specific?

    Considering the way cycle lanes just end...


    http://cyclingindublin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7015693047_544f9329dd_z.jpg

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4912749437/in/pool-908348@N25/
    there is now a metal railing here https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/cianginty/4913352122/

    No signage it's literally just appears, extremely dangerous

    There is no sign to say that the cycle path changes to far side of luas track either


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    #45
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    beauf wrote: »
    Is it illegal for all ages? if not at what age does it apply?

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/children_and_the_criminal_justice_system_in_ireland.html
    Age of criminal responsibility
    The age of criminal responsibility is covered by Section 52 of the Children Act 2001 as amended by Section 129 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (pdf). This came into effect in October 2006, raising the age of criminal responsibility from 7 years of age to 12 years of age. This means that children who have not reached the age of 12 years cannot be charged with an offence. There is an exception, however, for children aged 10 or 11 who can be charged with murder, manslaughter, rape or aggravated sexual assault. In addition, where a child under 14 years of age is charged with an offence, no further proceedings can be taken without the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions.

    Although the 2001 Act in general prohibits children under 12 years of age from being charged and convicted of a criminal offence, they do not enjoy total immunity from action being taken against them. Section 53 of the Act as amended by Section 130 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 places an onus on the Gardai to take a child under 12 years of age to his/her parents or guardian, where they have reasonable grounds for believing that the child has committed an offence with which the child cannot be charged due to the child’s age. Where this is not possible the Gardai will arrange for the child to be taken into the custody of the Child and Family Agency (CFA) for the area in which the child normally resides. It is possible that children under 12 years of age who commit criminal offences will be dealt with by the CFA and not the criminal justice system.


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    #46
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    beauf wrote: »
    I'd assume the law is specific?

    Considering the way cycle lanes just end...


    http://cyclingindublin.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/7015693047_544f9329dd_z.jpg

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/4912749437/in/pool-908348@N25/

    Link one: Crossing footpath and/or entering area which is part of toucan crossing.

    Link two: Share use path sign now legal.

    There should be no need for both and there's no space issue whatsoever in the first one.


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    #47
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    So its dangerous unless theres a sign?


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    #48
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    This seems an excellent idea, without the typical whataboutery you also posted. Lawbreakers and louts should be dealt with, without reference to what other people are apparently getting away with.

    I agree with some of that but I don't consider pointing out the hypocrisy of selectively enforcing the rules for cyclists while ignoring the frequent rule breaking by motorists to be whataboutery.

    I realise that's a term that gets thrown around to allow people to disregard what others say but I believe it only counts as whataboutery if I was saying leave cyclists alone until you've dealt with the wrong doings of motorists. What I actually said, pretty clearly, was make sure not to selectively enforce the rules. That would be victimisation.


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    #49
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    HivemindXX wrote: »
    I agree with some of that but I don't consider pointing out the hypocrisy of selectively enforcing the rules for cyclists while ignoring the frequent rule breaking by motorists to be whataboutery.

    I realise that's a term that gets thrown around to allow people to disregard what others say but I believe it only counts as whataboutery if I was saying leave cyclists alone until you've dealt with the wrong doings of motorists. What I actually said, pretty clearly, was make sure not to selectively enforce the rules. That would be victimisation.

    Well said.
    beauf wrote: »
    So its dangerous unless theres a sign?

    I never said that. Or even hinted at it.

    I was purely answering the question about legality.


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    #50
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    It was a general comment. All over the city cycle lanes dump cyclists out on to pavements, or cyclists are directed on to pavements marked as mixed use. One minute its legal, next it isn't.


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    #51
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Indeed one day it's illegal and highly irresponsible, and then some other day after a splash of paint it's irresponsible not to do it.


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    #52
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,481 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Indeed one day it's illegal and highly irresponsible, and then some other day after a splash of paint it's irresponsible not to do it.

    Lets be fair, there is a clear difference between cycling on a footpath and cucling on a designated cycle path. While in some instances the cycle path is put on the footpath it is clearly marked. It is not the same as cyclling on the footpath.


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    #53
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    I don't get the big deal about people cycling on the footpath , was in Barcelona recently and it was like a gumball rally of transport modes on the footpaths .

    bikes , ebikes ,scooters ,e scooters , segways , skates, skateboards, the odd police car and no one gave a crap


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    #54
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Lets be fair, there is a clear difference between cycling on a footpath and cucling on a designated cycle path. While in some instances the cycle path is put on the footpath it is clearly marked. It is not the same as cyclling on the footpath.
    In your experience, pedestrians are well aware of the presence of footpath cycle tracks then?


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    #55
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    on_the_nickel wrote: »
    No, but I've a pain in my hoop moving out of the way of grown men in bikes on the footpath when I'm bringing my kids to the shop. My wife runs a lot and is forever complaining about having to go on the road to avoid adults on bikes on the footpath.

    And I've absolutely no basis for it, but I'm of the opinion men who cycle on the footpath are the same pricks who dangerously overtake people cycling on the road.

    I've never once not had a cyclist on the footpath go around me let alone been pushed out on to the road


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    #56
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    CramCycle wrote: »
    On a related note, seen a dad escorting his son through Donnybrook like a boss the other day. About 6 yo doing 30 kph as his dad had his hand on his back. Coming to traffic he lifted the hand and the son drafted him like a pro. Son signalled coming upto a bus that was closing in, hit the brakes and pulled up.

    This is cycling the way an adult should, observation, awareness and intelligence, fair play to his dad on the excellent road training.

    I've see similar on Griffith Ave recently. Father and daughter (also around 6 or so) pedalling alongside the cars


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