Good example of 'speaking the truth in love'

wolfsbane · 07-02-2012 10:50pm #1

A fine word, speaking the truth in love! Every sinner should hear this and see what it means to be an authentic Christian.

Indeed, every Christian too, as we can so easily slip into the world's way of thinking.

Thank you, dear sister!

NOTE: The subject she addresses is homosexuality, but all she says applies to every sort of sinner!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHyMGocflrk&feature=share

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Morbert · 07-02-2012 11:13pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOjI1IL7Fo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbQktCccyIA

tommy2bad · 07-02-2012 11:23pm

"Thank you, dear sister!" Walks on and puts pamphlet in bin
So whats the point, homosexuality or sin in general or telling people that they are not Christians?

Nasty lady by the way, couldn't watch to the end. Hate those bible thumping American born again losers. No problem condemning anything that fits their version of sin but cant see whats wrong with prosperity gospel and as to being Christian? Leviticusites is a better name.

RichieC · 07-02-2012 11:36pm

Her first reaction was the correct one imo.

Doc Farrell · 07-02-2012 11:53pm

Atrocious bigotry. Near the end she says that you cannot be gay and be a Christian. If that is your position OP then I am very disappointed with you.

This is the official Catholic position. Of course you can be a Catholic and gay. If you don't believe that then look t up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYW3YQe0Dao&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This entire thread should be merged into the homosexuality thread.

tommy2bad · 08-02-2012 10:49am

Doc Farrell;
Of course you can be a Catholic and gay

Ah but Doc she wouldn't consider catholics Christian.

Benny_Cake · 08-02-2012 6:53pm

When she said that "Even the demons believe that—and shudder" (James 2:19) in response to the notion that a gay person could be a Christian - I shuddered.

There is an excellent film - it's available on Netflix and may be some other places online called "For the Bible Tells Me So". It's basically about gay people from Christian families and how their parents reacted - if you want to see real, true love in action, you should watch it. There is a girl in the movie whose parents think that homosexual behaviour is immoral, but they still love and support their daughter, and although I can't agree with their views on the issue, I can respect their sincere love. Anyway, a clip from the movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 7:34pm

tommy2bad wrote: »

"Thank you, dear sister!" Walks on and puts pamphlet in bin
So whats the point, homosexuality or sin in general or telling people that they are not Christians?

Nasty lady by the way, couldn't watch to the end. Hate those bible thumping American born again losers. No problem condemning anything that fits their version of sin but cant see whats wrong with prosperity gospel and as to being Christian? Leviticusites is a better name.

The point is being honest with people about what Christianity actually teaches, and doing it with loving concern.

I see you hate such Christians. We have always been hated, for the same reason. God's way is hateful to the carnal mind, the mind that is ruled and moved by Satan. Christians know that, for we all have been there. Enemies of God in our heart:
Titus 3:3 For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

You accuse her of having no problem with the prosperity gospel - have you proof of that? I would be very surprised.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 7:43pm

Doc Farrell said:

Atrocious bigotry. Near the end she says that you cannot be gay and be a Christian. If that is your position OP then I am very disappointed with you.

This is the official Catholic position. Of course you can be a Catholic and gay. If you don't believe that then look t up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYW3Y...e_gdata_player

You can be a Christian and have homosexual temptations. But you cannot be a Christian and live as a homosexual, any more than you can as a fornicator, adulterer, paedosexual or any other sort of sinful person.

As to the priest portraying the RCC position, I doubt it. I am no fan of the RCC, but I'm pretty sure they hold to the historic view on homosexuality.

If you can reference any of the RCC official statements on homosexuality, I'll be glad to read them.

This entire thread should be merged into the homosexuality thread

It addresses all sins and those who think they can practice them and still be a Christian. Homosexuality is a big one at the moment. Fornication a closer runner-up.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 7:48pm

Benny_Cake wrote: »

When she said that "Even the demons believe that—and shudder" (James 2:19) in response to the notion that a gay person could be a Christian - I shuddered.

There is an excellent film - it's available on Netflix and may be some other places online called "For the Bible Tells Me So". It's basically about gay people from Christian families and how their parents reacted - if you want to see real, true love in action, you should watch it. There is a girl in the movie whose parents think that homosexual behaviour is immoral, but they still love and support their daughter, and although I can't agree with their views on the issue, I can respect their sincere love. Anyway, a clip from the movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM

True Christians continue to love their wayward children. But they do not support them in their sin. They do not tell them their sin is really not a sin.

They love them enough to tell them the truth.

Let me ask you: if your daughter slept with a new person every week, would you support her in that? Would you tell her It's OK, and God is pleased with you.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Morbert · 08-02-2012 7:50pm

Wolfsbane, give me that shovel.

Benny_Cake · 08-02-2012 7:53pm

wolfsbane wrote: »

True Christians continue to love their wayward children. But they do not support them in their sin. They do not tell them their sin is really not a sin.

They love them enough to tell them the truth.

Let me ask you: if your daughter slept with a new person every week, would you support her in that? Would you tell her It's OK, and God is pleased with you.

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[COLOR="Blue"]1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.[/COLOR]

Sleeping around is a choice, be you straight or gay. Being gay isn't a choice - so I don't see the equivalence.

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 7:55pm

Wolfsbane is right, homosexual or not, sodomy is sodomy, there is no point trying to dress sodomy up any other way. Whatever the laudable aim regarding kindness and understanding, sodomy or other homosexual acts cannot be condoned any more than any other sexually immoral act, unpopular as it may be to say so, this also includes heterosexual sex outside the sanctity of marriage. Just because someone is born with the urge to carry out to certain acts, it does not make the acts ok.

gawker · 08-02-2012 7:59pm

wolfsbane wrote: »

Let me ask you: if your daughter slept with a new person every week, would you support her in that? Would you tell her It's OK, and God is pleased with you.

There is a difference between homosexuality and promiscuity. If you cannot see that difference, then perhaps you should go read a book on the topic and stop talking nonsense.

BTW, Jesus has a message for ya:

"Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye."

(NRSV, Matthew 7:1-5)

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 8:14pm

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Sleeping around is a choice, be you straight or gay. Being gay isn't a choice - so I don't see the equivalence.

Having sexual temptation is not a choice. How we deal with it is. If one claims they are by nature homosexual that is no different from saying I am by nature selfish, or quick to anger, or given to lustful thoughts.

I have my doubts about much of the 'nature' claims of modern homosexuality. But whether it is by nature or not doesn't change the sinfulness of accepting it.

And I've heard the same claims from paedophiles - 'That's who I am', 'God made me this way', etc. Certainly they err further in that they impose on non-consenting people - but the principle of their sexuality being OK because God made them that way is just the same.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 8:26pm

gawker wrote: »

There is a difference between homosexuality and promiscuity. If you cannot see that difference, then perhaps you should go read a book on the topic and stop talking nonsense.

BTW, Jesus has a message for ya:

"Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye."

(NRSV, Matthew 7:1-5)

Your misuse of Christ's teaching on judging others shows the paucity of your Scriptural knowledge. Christ is speaking of unjust judgement and hypocritical judgement, not judgement per se. That's why He also tells us: John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

And His apostles said:
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Paul commands us to pass judgement on sexual sin, and expel the unrepentant sinner.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Benny_Cake · 08-02-2012 8:36pm

Paul had no knowledge of the modern science in relation to sexual orientation, and nor could he have. Homosexuality, as it is understood today, simply didn't exist in the culture Paul came from, men havng sex with men was associated with prostitution and exploitation, and in any case practically every man would have been married. The idea of 2 men or 2 women living in a committed and monogamous relationship would have been simply inconceivable to Paul. Paul also commanded women to wear veils at worship and commanded people to submit to the civil authorities - people seem to read those passages in the context of the times they were written and the audiences they were intended for.

tommy2bad · 08-02-2012 8:43pm

So your homophobic, we get it.
So 'the bible tell us...' anything it suits our agenda mostly.
I have no idea if God cares one way or the other about homosexuals, He never said. Mosses said and St Paul said but Jesus ?
Love seemed to be the message not self congratulatory bashing of your pet hates.
Anyway can't you just accept that your denomination sees things one way and others can rightly see it differently. Or is being right more important than being Christian?
God ain't as obsessed with our genitalia as we are, He even thought them utilitarian enough to have dual use. Bet man would have designed them differently:p

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 9:00pm

gawker wrote: »

BTW, Jesus has a message for ya:

He also had a few for you

"Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” - John 7:24

“If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.” - Luke 17:3

gawker · 08-02-2012 9:07pm

wolfsbane wrote: »

Your misuse of Christ's teaching on judging others shows the paucity of your Scriptural knowledge. Christ is speaking of unjust judgement and hypocritical judgement, not judgement per se. That's why He also tells us: John 7:24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

And His apostles said:
1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Paul commands us to pass judgement on sexual sin, and expel the unrepentant sinner.

So, Paul>Jesus?

I mean Jesus obviously said that sitting around judging other people is wrong. That's precisely what you seem to be doing. Jesus also never mentioned homosexuality. Paul said "well, it's okay sometimes." Paul was a man, but you believe Jesus was God. Paul, like all men of his time, had no understanding of human sexuality as there had been no research done and they were primitive times by all accounts - he was a man writing about things from his human perspective.

When you say "Your misuse of Christ's teaching on judging others shows the paucity of your Scriptural knowledge", I say "Your misuse of Paul's writings shows the paucity of your knowledge of human sexuality."

Case in point - Paul clearly thought that the world was about to end in his lifetime. He went sofar as to advice people not to bother getting married anymore because the end times were on their way anyway:

7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

So clearly Paul was a man of his time and not some all-knowing genius.

gawker · 08-02-2012 9:08pm

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

He also had a few for you

"Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ “and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’” (Matt. 19:4.)

“Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.” - John 7:24

“If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.” - Luke 17:3

Almost seems like a contradiction if you ask me... :rolleyes:

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 9:15pm

Benny_Cake wrote: »

Paul had no knowledge of the modern science in relation to sexual orientation, and nor could he have. Homosexuality, as it is understood today, simply didn't exist in the culture Paul came from, men havng sex with men was associated with prostitution and exploitation, and in any case practically every man would have been married. The idea of 2 men or 2 women living in a committed and monogamous relationship would have been simply inconceivable to Paul. Paul also commanded women to wear veils at worship and commanded people to submit to the civil authorities - people seem to read those passages in the context of the times they were written and the audiences they were intended for.

Paul spoke from God - it is God's view on homosexuality Paul passes on to us.

Most homosexuals I know today are married, with children. Same in Paul's day. Being free to live openly in a homosexual relationship may be more modern, but it is just as much homosexual to prefer men while using a family for cover.

Paul did indeed command women to cover their heads in worship. That stands today, despite rebellion in many Christian quarters. And submission to governing authorities stands also - the only difference is that in a democracy the people are the voice of God and the authorities rule on their sufferance.

Maybe 'love your enemies' was only meant for that time of material weakness in the Church? When it had the chance to persecute its enemies, it was quite right to do so?

I don't think so.

People should be honest with themselves and others - if they don't like what Christianity teaches they should abandon it and look elsewhere, rather than lying about what its Scripture teaches.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

gawker · 08-02-2012 9:17pm

wolfsbane wrote: »

Paul spoke from God - it is God's view on homosexuality Paul passes on to us.

Most homosexuals I know today are married, with children. Same in Paul's day. Being free to live openly in a homosexual relationship may be more modern, but it is just as much homosexual to prefer men while using a family for cover.

Paul did indeed command women to cover their heads in worship. That stands today, despite rebellion in many Christian quarters. And submission to governing authorities stands also - the only difference is that in a democracy the people are the voice of God and the authorities rule on their sufferance.

Maybe 'love your enemies' was only meant for that time of material weakness in the Church? When it had the chance to persecute its enemies, it was quite right to do so?

I don't think so.

People should be honest with themselves and others - if they don't like what Christianity teaches they should abandon it and look elsewhere, rather than lying about what its Scripture teaches.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Was he speaking "from God" when he told people not to bother marrying because the world was going to end in their lifetime anyway?

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 9:29pm

tommy2bad wrote: »

So your homophobic, we get it.
So 'the bible tell us...' anything it suits our agenda mostly.
I have no idea if God cares one way or the other about homosexuals, He never said. Mosses said and St Paul said but Jesus ?
Love seemed to be the message not self congratulatory bashing of your pet hates.
Anyway can't you just accept that your denomination sees things one way and others can rightly see it differently. Or is being right more important than being Christian?
God ain't as obsessed with our genitalia as we are, He even thought them utilitarian enough to have dual use. Bet man would have designed them differently:p

So you're Christophobic, I get it.

Moses and Paul spoke from God. Otherwise we wouldn't treat their words any different from those of Carlyle, or Marx, or Jerry Springer. Jesus sent His apostles to bring the fullness of His word to us - all we need for holy living.

If you read the NT even once, you will see your non-judgemental Jesus is a myth.

My denomination has nothing to do with it. My position on sexuality is common to all the historic denominations. Yours is shared by only those who have departed from the Faith - 'liberals', 'modernists'.

It was God who made an issue of sex outside marriage. Just do a search on 'fornication' or 'sexual immorality' in any Bible. He made sex for one man with one woman, and that is the only acceptable relationship.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 9:40pm

gawker wrote: »

Was he speaking "from God" when he told people not to bother marrying because the world was going to end in their lifetime anyway?

You refer to the passage:
1 Corinthians 7:26 I suppose therefore that this is good because of the present distress—that it is good for a man to remain as he is: 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be loosed. Are you loosed from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But even if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Nevertheless such will have trouble in the flesh, but I would spare you.

29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away.

32 But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord.

Paul did not teach that the world was going to end in their lifetime. He knew no one knew the time. Only that it was coming. He knew the gospel had to reach every nation; that Antichrist had to arise and persecute the Church. That could happen in a generation. Or it might take a thousand years. Or more. Only God the Father knows.

But the Church was in distress through persecution even as Paul spoke. His point was that being married carried with it responsibilities and concerns. The single Christian could be free of those, able to devote him/herself to God's work.

But he gave no commandment for them not to marry. Indeed, if they were having trouble with their sexual desires, he commanded them to marry:
1 Corinthians 7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am; 9 but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

Doc Farrell · 08-02-2012 9:59pm

There are tens of thousands of men and women in single sex relationships on this island. Their interests are; who is cooking, who is cleaning up, who is feeding the cat, who is taking out the bins.

They will continue to live their lives, paying taxes, traveling, suffering, dying and paying for the funerals of their partners.

The obsession in this thread with sodomy, sexual acts, fornication, call it whatever you want is truely depressing. That I have spent this much time reading such self righteous hateful judgmental fundamentalism is something I should be ashamed of.

Anyone who doesn't know the difference between a loving relationship and a sexual act is dangerous.

Please merge this attention seeking thread with the homosexuality thread.

The Quadratic Equation · 08-02-2012 10:02pm

gawker wrote: »

Almost seems like a contradiction if you ask me...

Not if you look at the bible as whole, as you're meant to, scripture explains scripture.

wolfsbane · 08-02-2012 10:38pm

Doc Farrell wrote: »

There are tens of thousands of men and women in single sex relationships on this island. Their interests are; who is cooking, who is cleaning up, who is feeding the cat, who is taking out the bins.

They will continue to live their lives, paying taxes, traveling, suffering, dying and paying for the funerals of their partners.

The obsession in this thread with sodomy, sexual acts, fornication, call it whatever you want is truely depressing. That I have spent this much time reading such self righteous hateful judgmental fundamentalism is something I should be ashamed of.

Anyone who doesn't know the difference between a loving relationship and a sexual act is dangerous.

Please merge this attention seeking thread with the homosexuality thread.

If you don't like to discuss homosexuality, why not discuss the other sins mentioned? It is the issue of endorsing sin in the name of Christianity I am concerned with.

I'm all for loving relationships between men and between women, and between men and women. Christians are commanded to love one another, as Christ loved them. But sexual love is another matter. The only proper expression of that, whether it involves physical acts or not, is between an man and a woman. The only proper fulfilment of it (sexual intercourse) is in heterosexual marriage.

That's what The Bible says. That's what the Church has always taught. Calling it judgemental fundamentalism is just non-historical nonsense. If folk don't like it, they should not claim to be Christians.

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1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

tommy2bad · 08-02-2012 10:38pm

wolfsbane pronounced;

My denomination has nothing to do with it. My position on sexuality is common to all the historic denominations. Yours is shared by only those who have departed from the Faith - 'liberals', 'modernists'.

Dear God! how hard is it for you to realize that tolerance is not some liberal, modernist, wishy-washy PC ideal but one of the healthier, hardheaded and more pragmatic approaches to the real world.
Not my denominations idea btw just how I see the world.

tommy2bad · 08-02-2012 10:45pm

Wolfsbane;
It is the issue of endorsing sin in the name of Christianity I am concerned with.

Well why didn't you say so?
OK lets see how that works then. Do we declare all who sin excommunicated? Do we decide who and who is not Christian rather than the usual thing of deciding what is and is not Christian?
By all means declare your tenants and rules but if someone says they dont agree then tell them not in my church you don't. Going around crying heretic or apostate or sinner isn't helping anyone.

georgieporgy · 08-02-2012 10:47pm

if a person called a spade a spade would he be accused of being obsessed with gardening?

Good example of 'speaking the truth in love'

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