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Formula 1 2012: General Discussion Thread
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14-12-2011 9:22pm#1
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Jordan 191 wrote: »Do you mean bringing back pre-qualifying? :eek:
Only if the FIA are wimps and decide that they need to weed out some of the slower traffic. I'd say, the more cars the better. Just look at GP2 and GP3 for examples.
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All new lineup for STR,
"The Faenza-based squad revealed yesterday that Daniel Ricciardo and Jean-Eric Vergne would replace Alguersuari and team-mate Sebastien Buemi from next year, in a surprising move by Red Bull's junior outfit"
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/96747
It's about time. Like they said, STR was supposed to be about giving young drivers in the Red Bull program some F1 seat time. Jaime and Buemi had been there for three years now, honestly they should have been ousted last year.
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Having say 4 constructors with paying customers would allow lower costs with better performance for the less well-funded teams while allowing the constructors more scope for research and development with the extra funds they get.
Of course before any of that the main thing I want is something with the new engines, unlimited pressure in the turbo. Let them use the engines as much as they want with a risk for doing so. The excellent reliability of the last couple of years annoys me. :pac:
Who would you get to build the chassis?
I agree about the reliability. I remember back when there were works engines, an engine maker would bring a new engine to a GP, only for the engine to blow up in qualifying or the race.
As for the turbo engines, there won't be any unlimited pressure as far as I can see.
One of the reasons turbos were done away within the sport in the 80's was that when pop-off valves were introduced, the FIA thought teams were tampering with them.
And as for unreliable turbo engines, the Cosworth Turbo V6's in the Benetton B187 liked to expire alot from what I recall reading about them.0 -
Jordan 191 wrote: »Who would you get to build the chassis?
I agree about the reliability. I remember back when there were works engines, an engine maker would bring a new engine to a GP, only for the engine to blow up in qualifying or the race.
As for the turbo engines, there won't be any unlimited pressure as far as I can see.
One of the reasons turbos were done away within the sport in the 80's was that when pop-off valves were introduced, the FIA thought teams were tampering with them.
And as for unreliable turbo engines, the Cosworth Turbo V6's in the Benetton B187 liked to expire alot from what I recall reading about them.
Let anyone who wants to build a chassis build one and let others buy them. At the moment the idea would be that Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams and Mercedes would probably want to build their own chassis. Why not let them build for customer teams as well instead of those other teams spending tonnes of money on crap technology when they could be funding extra breakthroughs. More competitive teams while innovation continues if not increases.
If it was a very open formula I would accept there'd always be a chance that a small team could come up with something innovative but it's never going to be much more open than it is now and so much is spent just on making everything meet safety and sporting standards that outside of the top teams there's little budget left to try any worthwhile new ideas.
On the engines I know they'll never open it up again, I just really would love if they did. :pac:0 -
Let anyone who wants to build a chassis build one and let others buy them. At the moment the idea would be that Red Bull, McLaren, Ferrari, Williams and Mercedes would probably want to build their own chassis.
Probably? The bloody well want to lol. I couldn't see any of those teams not building there own chassis.
I agree. But could you imagine the fuss if a mid grid team purchased a chassis for example from one of those top teams you mentioned and out perform them?Why not let them build for customer teams as well instead of those other teams spending tonnes of money on crap technology when they could be funding extra breakthroughs. More competitive teams while innovation continues if not increases.
I'm 50/50 on this one. Remember those 'X-Wings' that the Tyrrell team came up with and some top teams adopted them?If it was a very open formula I would accept there'd always be a chance that a small team could come up with something innovative but it's never going to be much more open than it is now and so much is spent just on making everything meet safety and sporting standards that outside of the top teams there's little budget left to try any worthwhile new ideas.
I agree.On the engines I know they'll never open it up again, I just really would love if they did. :pac:0 -
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I was saying that they'd be the most likely to want to build their own chassis, doubt any others would.Jordan 191 wrote: »Probably? The bloody well want to lol. I couldn't see any of those teams not building there own chassis.
Already happening with Renault and Mercedes engines. That's what I like about it, it wouldn't kill the politics between the teams in any way.I agree. But could you imagine the fuss if a mid grid team purchased a chassis for example from one of those top teams you mentioned and out perform them?
And then they were banned. :pac: The trouble is that now most innovation in aero is down to wind tunnel testing and so on. With the current (and likely future) formula it's about incremental improvement. Obviously there's always going to be a possibility that someone will take a guess at something that turns out to be amazing but it's far less likely now.I'm 50/50 on this one. Remember those 'X-Wings' that the Tyrrell team came up with and some top teams adopted them?
We all love the idea of someone coming up with something groundbreaking (I have my own idea that I don't think is in any of the cars, I'm awaiting their calls :pac: ) and tack it on one weekend and dominate. That dream pretty much died over a decade ago as far as I can see.0 -
I was saying that they'd be the most likely to want to build their own chassis, doubt any others would.
That's what I meant in the last post, so sorry if my reply in the last post sounded abrupt.
I was talking about chassis as distinct from engines. Supposedly a team purchased customer chassis from Ferrari and used a Mercedes engine and the team ended up doing better than Ferrari. You would have to wonder how Ferrari would feel about it.Already happening with Renault and Mercedes engines. That's what I like about it, it wouldn't kill the politics between the teams in any way.
As far as I remember, those X-Wings were banned simply on the ground of aesthetics.And then they were banned.
I remember when Jordan came up with a part for the Monaco GP in 2001, and was banned after testing. You are right about aero though. Cars are very reliant on having a good aero package. All about aero.The trouble is that now most innovation in aero is down to wind tunnel testing and so on. With the current (and likely future) formula it's about incremental improvement. Obviously there's always going to be a possibility that someone will take a guess at something that turns out to be amazing but it's far less likely now.
We all love the idea of someone coming up with something groundbreaking (I have my own idea that I don't think is in any of the cars, I'm awaiting their calls :pac: ) and tack it on one weekend and dominate. That dream pretty much died over a decade ago as far as I can see.
Great convo were having.
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No bother.Jordan 191 wrote: »That's what I meant in the last post, so sorry if my reply in the last post sounded abrupt.
Aye but like I said it's already happening somewhat and it's that kind of stuff that makes the team rivalry as much fun as it is.I was talking about chassis as distinct from engines. Supposedly a team purchased customer chassis from Ferrari and used a Mercedes engine and the team ended up doing better than Ferrari. You would have to wonder how Ferrari would feel about it.
There'll always be a reason :pac:As far as I remember, those X-Wings were banned simply on the ground of aesthetics.I remember when Jordan came up with a part for the Monaco GP in 2001, and was banned after testing. You are right about aero though. Cars are very reliant on having a good aero package. All about aero.
What kind of part was it?
The funny thing is that there's plenty of posters here who could easily design a car that would have better downforce than modern F1 cars, it's just the rules that stand in the way.
The vast majority of the costs of designing a chassis comes before one is ever built. By building more it saves both the seller and the buyer money per unit. Obviously the price will depend on what someone's willing to pay. :pac:
What makes it sillier for me is that teams are already allowed to outsource design to other companies, I think Dallara did one of the new teams for 2010. If a team could instead just buy from another team it would bring more stability to the sport rather than funnel money to outside companies.
It would still be great then if a customer team did come across a little quirk of their car in the wind-tunnel and beat the works team. :pac:0 -
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