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Communications Bill in Seanad this afternoon - Tuesday

vinnyfitz · 2002-03-26 14:19:16

The committee stage of the Bill is on later this afternoon in Leinster House - probably starting around 4 or 4.30 pm. If you are in Dublin City area why not ring your favourite senator and arrange a ticket to go in and watch the proceedings?

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26-03-2002 3:19pm

#1

vinnyfitz

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The committee stage of the Bill is on later this afternoon in Leinster House - probably starting around 4 or 4.30 pm.
If you are in Dublin City area why not ring your favourite senator and arrange a ticket to go in and watch the proceedings?

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#2 26-03-2002 5:22pm
pete

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It's started.

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#3 26-03-2002 7:23pm
pete

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You got seanad TV, vinny?

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#4 26-03-2002 7:42pm
El_MUERkO

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So what happens now?

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#5 26-03-2002 10:53pm
Dustaz

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wow, gowan the seanad

Any reason why this wont give the bill the teeth it needs?

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#6 26-03-2002 11:10pm
dahamsta

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i would of taught irelandoffline would be a little more excited with this news ?

If it passes muster I'll be ecstatic with the news, but there's still a ways to go. Also, it appears that some very important bits and pieces have been removed from the Bill, with the Minister saying that they can be handled in other ways. On in particular relates to the abilities of the new Commission to mandate products and services. Personally, I would like the Minister to tell us about these "other ways", and when she intends to implement them.

adam

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#7 27-03-2002 1:46am
m1ke

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4mil ... don't eircom turnover 1 mil a day... so they loose 4 days out of 365

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#8 27-03-2002 2:06am
pete

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Originally posted by m1ke
4mil ... don't eircom turnover 1 mil a day... so they loose 4 days out of 365

Is that £/€1million turnover or profit?

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#9 27-03-2002 2:49am
kamobe

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Can Eircom apeal that €4 million and delay paying it? Say over a 2 year court case or whatever?

Or do the ODTR have the final say?

Also - how often can that fine be applied?
Every day untill the problem is sorted would be nice :}

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#10 27-03-2002 2:59am
dahamsta

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Is that £/€1million turnover or profit?

Statto says: "Regarding the 1m Euro.. According to http://ir.eircom.ie/eircom/Investor/fr_results/ eircom turnover 1m Euro in approximately 4 hours.. they earn 1m Euro profit every 47 hours or so (including nighttime/weekends )"

adam

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#11 27-03-2002 3:04am
dahamsta

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Can Eircom apeal that €4 million and delay paying it? Say over a 2 year court case or whatever?

Yes. The heavier fines are more of a disincentive than anything else. In the current environment, it's pretty easy for Eircom to block progress and innovation and absorb the cost, because, with some applications at least (FRIACO), it works out cheaper to let it trundle through the courts and lose.

Or do the ODTR have the final say?

No. As far as I can gather, the ODTR has to ask the DPP to prosecute offenders, and it's the court that levies the fine, not the ODTR. The ODTR has the final say on Regulatory matters, but operators can challenge her directives.

Also - how often can that fine be applied? Every day untill the problem is sorted would be nice

I can't remember, but it's in the Bill. I think fines can be levied per day, but not this, larger fine. The larger fine is only to be levied on /conviction/.

adam

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#12 27-03-2002 5:46am
Dustaz

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Originally posted by dahamsta
Is that £/€1million turnover or profit?

Statto says: "Regarding the 1m Euro.. According to http://ir.eircom.ie/eircom/Investor/fr_results/ eircom turnover 1m Euro in approximately 4 hours.. they earn 1m Euro profit every 47 hours or so (including nighttime/weekends )"

adam

what? your joking? still i assume thats gross tho, any idea of the net?

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#13 27-03-2002 6:01am
Tellox

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€4mil is a drop in the bucket for eircom, Although they'll probably increase their prices to pay it..

still no reason to get excited

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#14 28-03-2002 12:32am
neverhappen

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From the Seanad transcripts of 26th March 2002...

Comms bill Committee Stage

Report and Final Stages

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#15 28-03-2002 12:43am
dahamsta

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Thanks neverhappen. I'll have a look over them tonight. I'm getting odd in my old age, I'm starting to find this stuff interesting. The debate in the Seanad the other day was a howl.

adam

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#16 28-03-2002 1:39am
Tellox

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I've just read it...it states greater.

o_O
its something, but its still not enough to force flat rate/broadband

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#17 28-03-2002 2:20am
dahamsta

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Arial 10pt bites.

http://www.irelandoffline.org/files/public/htm/comms_bill_seanad.020325.htm

adam

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#18 28-03-2002 3:02am
kamobe

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10% is a hella lot more effective then €4 million. I really hope it is greater.....

I hate this rubbish though, of allowing Eircom to appeal and drag it through the courts for years. Surely if anyone has doubts over whether the regulator has the ability to do her job, then let someone who can, take her place.

But if she can, why should her decision be open to appeal?
Especially in this case as Eircom are *so* reluctant to move forward...

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#19 28-03-2002 5:16am
Stonemason

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I dont share your growing intrest in these documents in your dotage Dahamster hehehe got three lines in and i now have key imprints on my forhead ZZZZZzzzzzzz.As for the 4 million its getting better but if your saying that Eircom will only (possibly)have to pay this €4,000000 after a court case the i would counter that we are likely to see some of the longest court cases in Irish history .
Microsoft may have started a trend with their delaying court tactics if memory serves it cost them $1000000 a day to keep it tied up in the courts for months it paid them to do it and they effectively won in the end

Stone

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#20 29-03-2002 4:46am
Fergus

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Well it sure looks like 10% to me..

Mr. Treacy: This amendment increases the fine provided for in the section. The original proposal set a maximum fine of €1 million in respect of persons found guilty of being in breach of the conditions of a licence. The amendment proposed will increase the maximum fine to €4 million, or 10% of turnover, whichever is the greater. It brings the penalties for breaches of regulatory obligations in the communications sector into line with penalties laid down in the Competition Bill for breaches of competition law. It is important to have consistency when dealing with a very important area of communications activity and regulatory regime.

I would be grateful if the House will agree to the proposal.

Amendment agreed to.

..which in the case of Eircom would seem to be in excess of €200 million. So much for unconstitutional.

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#21 29-03-2002 5:04am
Stonemason

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Hold on ando,s quote says "LESSER" and Fergus,s "GREATER" which is correct as it is a major difference ?.If its the latter then Wooohooo Progress!!!

Stone

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#22 29-03-2002 2:45pm
Xian

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Originally posted by Fergus
So much for unconstitutional.

Whoa, betsy! The implications of this amendment are either
The advice of the AG was bogus, in which case full steam ahead.

The advice of the AG was valid, in which case the first time a case is brought to the DPP it will go straight to the recycle bin and the new Regulatory body will be left without even dentures! If only a low fine can be legislated for constitutionally then it would be better not to have the clause on fines at all as that would only serve as a benchmark for any case brought to the DPP.

Thin ice ahead, careful steps required...

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