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Reliability of first names in records.

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  • 14-08-2014 8:18pm
    #1
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭


    I'm investigating one branch of family members, and I *think* I have managed to maintain a line going back to around 1790.

    Here's the problem.

    There is one stubborn guy in the line, who married in the 1830s, who appears to be my Great Great Grandfather, but he has the "wrong" first name.

    His sons and his wife and his townland on the church records are all in line with what the census and GRO records indicate they should be.

    However, this difficult man's name is written as Patrick in the church records, where it "should be" Tom/Thomas if he is my direct relative.

    In your experience, is it common for people to casually cast off their given names, and call themselves something else later in life? Would this have been unusual?

    The family names in question are not especially rare (William, Daniel, Thomas, Matthew, Ellen), nor is the surname rare, but it's the fact that all of the right combination of names are there (wife and sons), and the town land is correct. But I'm frustrated by this one inconsistency.

    Advice?


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    #2
    Waitsian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Waitsian


    conorh91 wrote: »

    ...

    Advice?

    Well I have an a few entries in my research, particularly pre-civil records, which I will always keep with an asterix (*) next to the name, for the simple reason that although there is circumstantial evidence to indicate that it may be the relevant person, I can't definitively prove it.

    As for first names, yes, some people went by their second names. My mother goes by her second name, as do two cousins. It happens, usually to differentiate with someone else in the house with the same name.


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    #3
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    Thanks mod9

    The thing is, he's an adult when he appears to be using two different names.

    The church records say Patrick married Ellen in 1830, and they use the name Patrick when naming him as the father to the boys. But newspaper records of the era (he was a Poor Law Guardian), as well as records of his sons in the local papers, as well as other records all call him Thomas or Tom.

    There is no other Thomas showing up anywhere, and definitely none with this combination of relatives.

    I can understand if someone doesn't use a given name at birth, but why is he apparently still using it as an adult, in the eyes of the church?

    Maybe it's not him, it just seems like an unlikely coincidence.


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    #4
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,647 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Church records, particularly IFHF ones, can be very badly transcribed; and may have had first names translated from Latin at that. But because you're getting it more than once it could be the other option: It is fairly common in Ireland for actual first names to be dropped and people to go entirely by their "middle" name due to the first name being generationally inherited. However the first has to be used legally and the church would likely consider it required too.

    My mothers family are absolutely terrible for this - my grandmother has never used her birth name meaning if you compared the announcement of her wedding in the Nenagh Guardian to the church record of it you'd have this issue; something which is fine when you know the details of the event in person but confusing if someone was doing a record match 200 years later.


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    #5
    conorh91
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭conorh91


    MYOB wrote: »
    My mothers family are absolutely terrible for this - my grandmother has never used her birth name meaning if you compared the announcement of her wedding in the Nenagh Guardian to the church record of it you'd have this issue; something which is fine when you know the details of the event in person but confusing if someone was doing a record match 200 years later.

    I suppose these days we are so engaged with officialdom from an early age, (PPS numbers, child benefit, education) we are "stuck" with our names, and we hardly consider the notion of changing it.

    Perhaps people of the 19th century had more freedom in this regard; any contact with 'officialdom' would be a few church records, limited primary schooling, and not much else. Everything was colloquial.

    I still feel like I'm cheating by just assuming this "Patrick" is really the Thomas I'm searching for, but it's reassuring that I'm not the only one who has experienced this!


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    #6
    Jellybaby1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    Not too long ago I booked a flight for myself and a couple of friends. Quite by accident I discovered one of my friends had a completely different name on her passport to the one I knew her by. I never knew this and she never even thought to tell me! Found out just before I had booked, thankfully. I've had non-national workmates totally puzzled by the way names are changed here. I wonder is it an Irish thing or are other populations as daft as us?


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