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Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign

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Comments

  • #452
    brimal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭brimal


    Nodin wrote: »
    OOOooooooo. With ye now. Its alright except for when the bad guys use it, kind of thing.

    Rubbish.

    An open letter to the Israeli government or the Israeli embassy in Ireland would be justified. A cancer sufferer who doesn't care about the IPSC campaign and just wanted to have his work read in Jerusalem isn't.
    You could call it that. That is what people do, in these situations. Its part of campaigning, to campaign. Presumably you think its ok "when it is justified" and it only strikes you as erroneous here, for some reason.

    It's rather a shame that new found sensitivity of yours wasn't directed towards everybody who campaigns for a cause, or occupies an area.

    You are getting personal now.
    They can't force him to do anything.

    But they sure do try.
    I stand by the obvious - that letters do not constitute intimidation (threats of violence etc excepted).

    The obvious is, people are feeling intimidated. They have said it several times now.
    Well as I use rather a more realistic standard as to what constitutes indtimidation, we'd have to wait and see.

    Going by this post (childish tone, personal angle) it's obvious you do have a different standard alright.


  • #453
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    brimal wrote: »
    Rubbish.

    An open letter to the Israeli government or the Israeli embassy in Ireland would be justified. A cancer sufferer who doesn't care about the IPSC campaign and just wanted to have his work read in Jerusalem isn't.
    .

    They didn't know about the cancer, or thats the impression I have. If you know otherwise, you might demonstrate with a source.
    brimal wrote: »
    You are getting personal now.
    .

    I'm highlighting the contrast between two sets of views - one is directed towards a campaign for a "cultural boycott" and involves e-mails and letters, and the other is an occupation and colonisation conducted against international law using a number of methods more extreme and deadly in nature. It presents rather a bizarre divergence.
    brimal wrote: »
    The obvious is, people are feeling intimidated. They have said it several times now.
    .

    There are people who will not leave their house, for fear of pigeons. Its suprisingly common. The thing is, the problem is not with the pigeons.
    brimal wrote: »
    Going by this post (childish tone, personal angle) it's obvious you do have a different standard alright.

    Threats of violence, assault, attacks on property, "we know where you are" phonecalls at all hours, that kind of thing is intimidation.


  • #454
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,061 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do you understand the difference between a "private person" and a person in the public eye?
    Indeed, hence you're noting my "thanks" on such a letter to a public elected official(s) was still no argument.
    Its 50% plea/50% Emotional/moral blackmail, you might say.
    Bingo, emphasis on the blackmail part. The public nature of the letter ensures that intent. They could have informed/pleaded etc in a private fashion.
    It puts the persons stance in a public light, and their following response as well.
    Indeed and now they look like amateur hour.
    Hang on - You do realise that a great deal of the purpose of an open letter - as with the two you "thanked"- is to pressure people "in the light of public opinion".
    Ah bless, still trying to plough that field. I pointed out the obvious diffs. If you can find any open letter to a private individual(or even a public artist type) that I thanked then please feel free to revisit your "argument".
    I would guess - and its a guess, I'm not privy to any inside knowledge - that they wanted to open a dialog, be it public or private
    Naw they clearly wanted to make a point to try and shame an individual into some sort of response. We've established they avoided the private dialogue route. Well, unless they can show the email records. I suspect they never existed. Their backing off and whitewashing from their website tends to indicate this. On your earlier "argument" the poster DeVore(and others who supported the stance) had many private dialogues with various interested parties before that open letter. They did not pass go and head straight for some publicity stunt.
    It's par for the course for campaigns to issue open letters for any number of reasons. It's part and parcel of peaceful civil action and has been for a very long time. I find it odd that you didn't seem to have a problem with it until now.
    What in gods name are you on about? You have no clue what campaigns or not I've supported, nor any clue if I objected previously to such tactics(I have in the case of private individuals). Let me break out the crayons here lest there be any confusion from some quarters: I don't care what campaign is involved, I personally find these kind of bullying tactics and as you called it "moral blackmail" aimed at otherwise unconnected and innocent private individuals at best childish grandstanding at worst intimidation of those same private individuals.
    I'm highlighting the contrast between two sets of views - one is directed towards a campaign for a "cultural boycott" and involves e-mails and letters, and the other is an occupation and colonisation conducted against international law using a number of methods more extreme and deadly in nature. It presents rather a bizarre divergence.
    Well you can hardly level that at me;
    Mise wrote:
    I support the Palestinians the majority of the time(while supporting the right of Israel to exist). Too often the Israeli authorities have acted like bloody criminals and landgrabbers with a side order of geographical genocide while they're at it, however when right on campaigns like this come up and come out with guff like this, I just think "twats".
    No divergence required. I'm hardly comparing in a schoolyard fashion the yardsticks of evil between these two views. If someone or a body is acting the twat, the level of twatness is debatable as a separate issue, the fact they're acting like twats isn't. I've a nieghbour who is a twat. Stalin was a twat. My neighbour didn't kill tens of millions of people and would doubtless agree on the twatness of Joe, but he's still a twat.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • #455
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Indeed, hence you're noting my "thanks" on such a letter to a public elected official(s) was still no argument
    Bingo, emphasis on the blackmail part. The public nature of the letter ensures that intent. They could have informed/pleaded etc in a private fashion.Indeed and now they look like amateur hour.
    ..

    They look like "amateur hour" because they presumed that silence was a "blank" and made no efforts to ascertain otherwise, the man subsequently being revealed to have been recovering from cancer.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ah bless, still trying to plough that field. I pointed out the obvious diffs. If you can find any open letter to a private individual(or even a public artist type) that I thanked then please feel free to revisit your "argument". ..

    I'd suggest its absence is due to a lack of opportunity on your part, rather than any aversion to same. Nobody has suggested that private individuals are targeted, have been targeted etc except, perhaps, you. This person is in the public sphere.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Naw they clearly wanted to make a point to try and shame an individual into some sort of response. ..

    ....well thats part of it too, yes. Here in this dimension its whats done.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    We've established they avoided the private dialogue route. ..

    No, we have not.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well, unless they can show the email records. I suspect they never existed. Their backing off and whitewashing from their website tends to indicate this. On your earlier "argument" the poster DeVore(and others who supported the stance) had many private dialogues with various interested parties before that open letter. They did not pass go and head straight for some publicity stunt. ..

    If its ok to write open letters to politicians as you stated earlier, why are you now defending them and adding caveats to your earlier blanket approval?

    Wibbs wrote: »
    What in gods name are you on about? You have no clue what campaigns or not I've supported, nor any clue if I objected previously to such tactics(I have in the case of private individuals)...

    We aren't talking about "private individuals" here. We're talking about a public figure.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Let me break out the crayons here lest there be any confusion from some quarters: I don't care what campaign is involved, I personally find these kind of bullying tactics and as you called it "moral blackmail" aimed at otherwise unconnected and innocent private individuals at best childish grandstanding at worst intimidation of those same private individuals....

    Of course its a form of "moral blackmail". Thats how this kind of thing is done, be it starving Somalis, persecuted East Timorese or Chimpanzes being experimented on, or Whales being speared. Even the adverts for many of these groups are a form of moral blackmail.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Well you can hardly level that at me....

    I didn't, made no effort to, and dealt with the other poster in an entirely seperate post.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    No divergence required. I'm hardly comparing in a schoolyard fashion the yardsticks of evil between these two views. If someone or a body is acting the twat, the level of twatness is debatable as a separate issue, the fact they're acting like twats isn't. I've a nieghbour who is a twat. Stalin was a twat. My neighbour didn't kill tens of millions of people and would doubtless agree on the twatness of Joe, but he's still a twat.

    Given your standards of what constitutes a "twat", you must feel under siege. And indeed somewhat limited in choices as regards charitable donations, if you insist on them being guaranteed Twat free.


  • #456
    brimal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭brimal


    More negativity towards IPSC and their boycott in the media lately.

    Fintan O'Toole with a good article - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2012/0519/1224316323924.html


    On Saturday Gerard O'Donovan wrote an article giving his version of events - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0526/1224316730779.html

    It touches on what an uncompromising, intimidating, bully Raymond Deane is.
    There is already a wave of negativity towards the IPSC lately, and support is waning - this idiot will ensure the trend continues.


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  • #457
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    brimal wrote: »
    ....................
    It touches on what an uncompromising, intimidating, bully Raymond Deane is.
    There is already a wave of negativity towards the IPSC lately, and support is waning - this idiot will ensure the trend continues.

    If he's a "bully" then you might apply that label from everybody from Greenpeace to Amnesty.


  • #458
    brimal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭brimal


    Nodin wrote: »
    If he's a "bully" then you might apply that label from everybody from Greenpeace to Amnesty.

    Is that all you got Nodin? Discussing semantics again?

    What's your opinion on Dr Deane and the negativity towards the IPSC?


  • #459
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    brimal wrote: »
    Is that all you got Nodin? Discussing semantics again??

    I don't see how that was a discussion of semantics. They use bog-standard non-violent lobby/protest tactics, and are actually a lot less confrontational than Greenpeace and a few others.
    brimal wrote: »
    What's your opinion on Dr Deane and the negativity towards the IPSC?

    I don't know Dr Deane. I am however familiar with the tactics of the IPSC. I see nothing wrong with them generally. They made a mistake with regards yer man recovering from cancer, but otherwise I fail to see the problem.


  • #460
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    I find the idea of Irish people being concerned about anything outside ireland quite ridiculous .This is Sinn Fein with it's " ahhhh look at dem poor wee childer " act poised for another attempt at garnering anti treaty votes . The game continues using the young and naive but one quick look down history you will see there was and never will be any love between the Crescent and the Cross .Read up on it .


  • #461
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    paddyandy wrote: »
    I find the idea of Irish people being concerned about anything outside ireland quite ridiculous ..


    Aye, god forbid that anybody gives a crap about their fellow man.
    paddyandy wrote: »
    The game continues using the young and naive but one quick look down history you will see there was and never will be any love between the Crescent and the Cross .Read up on it .


    Excellent stuff. Is there any other issue we should use medieval sectarianism to form our views on?


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  • #462
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Nodin wrote: »
    Aye, god forbid that anybody gives a crap about their fellow man.




    Excellent stuff. Is there any other issue we should use medieval sectarianism to form our views on?

    The Koran and those that follow it still have the same cry and it's the same today .They have always had a lovely "style" of Baptism you go express to paradise now that's surely better than getting flutered down the pub .


  • #463
    SocSocPol
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭SocSocPol


    paddyandy wrote: »
    The Koran and those that follow it still have the same cry and it's the same today .They have always had a lovely "style" of Baptism you go express to paradise now that's surely better than getting flutered down the pub .
    A tad extreme, Im no fan of extremism be it from Palestinian or Israeli,though I do support the right of a state of israel to exist, but simplifying the complex situation into a general insult against all muslims is just insulting and degrading.


  • #464
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Interesting fact.


  • #465
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    The Koran has errors and sometime i'll get to collecting a list of them to publish here on boards.ie .Mohammed the Prophet has not even one prophecy in it and much of their faith is a hotch-potch cobbled together bits from the Old Testament and very badly done too .
    It's personality driven and reason plays little part in it .Israel has prestige all over the world Mecca and Medina have none outside Islam also Israel is fertile .Palestinians are a collection of Arabs from surrounding countries and 'Palestine' a reuse of Philistia or Philistines .Watch MEMRI TV and hear with subtitles what they say about themselves and each other .Bitta Craic too !


  • #466
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    Dervish... What an awful name for a band.


  • #467
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    paddyandy wrote: »
    The Koran has errors and sometime i'll get to collecting a list of them to publish here on boards.ie .Mohammed the Prophet has not even one prophecy in it and much of their faith is a hotch-potch cobbled together bits from the Old Testament and very badly done too .
    It's personality driven and reason plays little part in it .Israel has prestige all over the world Mecca and Medina have none outside Islam also Israel is fertile

    I fail to see what the Koran, the popularity of Mecca and Media, or the fertility of Israel has to do with the topic. You seem to have stung together a bunch or random nonsense, that has more to do with your dislike of Muslims, as to anything to do with the topic at hand. Seriously, wtf does the fertility of Israel have to do with anything......
    paddyandy wrote: »
    Watch MEMRI TV and hear with subtitles what they say about themselves and each other .Bitta Craic too !

    MEMRI are known for false translations and are basically an Israeli propoganda outfit. Not surprised that someone would recommend there lies and nonsense. It was only a matter of time.


  • #468
    paddyandy
    Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Wes : Fertility is everything with all that sand which covers most of that part of the world .Translations are always a problem but i will have a look at the link .No booby trap i hope ?
    Wes ; You fail to see ....my problem ????


  • #469
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Wes : Fertility is everything with all that sand which covers most of that part of the world .

    Fertility has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Its just a random and quite frankly bizare thing that you decided to mention.
    paddyandy wrote: »
    Translations are always a problem but i will have a look at the link .No booby trap i hope ?

    Except that MEMRI purposefully create false translations. There is a difference between a honest mistake, and basically making crap up.

    Also, the site is perfectly safe. Most modern browsers will stop you from going onto a known dodgy website.


  • #470
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    paddyandy wrote: »
    Wes : Fertility is everything with all that sand which covers most of that part of the world .Translations are always a problem but i will have a look at the link .No booby trap i hope ?
    Wes ; You fail to see ....my problem ????

    What the fuck are you on about?


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