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Self Sufficient Gardening / DIY Gardening

  • 27-02-2012 9:17pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭


    As many of you know, I enjoy a bit of GIY!

    Now, I don't believe in buying every little thing from a supplier, quite the opposite, I believe in buying the bare minimum. My own personal interest isn't based specifically in the survivalism relm, but it is intended to be as self sufficient as possible.

    So to get the ball rolling, I'm going to quickly detail some of the DIY things I do, I won't go into detail but if you want to know more about something, please ask and hopefully we can get a DIY gardening discussion going!

    1. Here's how I analyse my land:

    Squeeze test: This includes digging up some soil and squeezing it, depending on how the ball holds/ falls apart, this will indicate the type of soil.

    Fertility test: Dig a small hole, look for soil helping organisms eg. worms.
    Look at what grows naturally, eg.nettles indicate fertile soil which has many nutrients.

    Drainage: Dig a hole, wait for rain :) . You can fill the hole with water, however this does not mimic natural drainage as the quantity of water is likely much greater than rain.

    2. Helper plants / other stuff!

    Comfrey: I have a main plant which I grow in a large pot in the greenhouse (this is my main plant), children plants are planted at the sides of the compost bin to drink up the nutrients which are leeched from the bin. Brilliant for fertilizer, tea, compost activator etc.etc.

    Nettles: I have a nettle patch growing, I grow them in an otherwise unusable patch in the garden. Brilliant for making liquid fertilizer.

    Compost Bin: need I say more?!

    A drying system for grass/weeds: As anyone with a compost bin will know, its hard to get enough brown material, I made a raised bed with old pallets, which I fill with grass cuttings, pulled weeds etc. This is covered by 2 old glass patio doors, this creates a drying box to dry out these things before using them as brown matter for the compost bin.

    Homebrew fertilizer: Many 2lt milk bottles, brewing nettle, comfrey and tea fertilizer.

    Rainwater harvesting system : In the pipeline, currently have 2 old wheelie bins which are awaiting the transformation into this. plus 1 blue barrel.

    I also have a few "experiments" growing in the garden, but thats for another post!


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    Great idea, this is a particular interest of mine. Do not like wasting money in the garden.

    Just read of a DIY ph soil tester, don't know if it works but...

    boil two cups of red cabbage, eat the cabbage as it's the water you're looking for. Dissolve a tablespoon of your soil in a cup of clean water. Add a few drps of the cabbage water. The water will turn purplish with a bit of blue if the soil is neutral. Very red for acidic and green/yellow for alkaline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 947 ✭✭✭fodda


    evilmonkee wrote: »
    As many of you know, I enjoy a bit of GIY!

    Now, I don't believe in buying every little thing from a supplier, quite the opposite, I believe in buying the bare minimum. My own personal interest isn't based specifically in the survivalism relm, but it is intended to be as self sufficient as possible.

    So to get the ball rolling, I'm going to quickly detail some of the DIY things I do, I won't go into detail but if you want to know more about something, please ask and hopefully we can get a DIY gardening discussion going!

    1. Here's how I analyse my land:


    eg.nettles indicate fertile soil which has many nutrients.


    I thought nettles grew in disturbed land usually around rubble etc? Poor land?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 257 ✭✭Gonzor


    Ophiopogon wrote: »
    Great idea, this is a particular interest of mine. Do not like wasting money in the garden.

    Just read of a DIY ph soil tester, don't know if it works but...

    boil two cups of red cabbage, eat the cabbage as it's the water you're looking for. Dissolve a tablespoon of your soil in a cup of clean water. Add a few drps of the cabbage water. The water will turn purplish with a bit of blue if the soil is neutral. Very red for acidic and green/yellow for alkaline.

    Sounds like a bit of craic for some day. HAve you a link for it...??


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭sfakiaman


    evilmonkee wrote: »

    Comfrey: I have a main plant which I grow in a large pot in the greenhouse (this is my main plant), children plants are planted at the sides of the compost bin to drink up the nutrients which are leeched from the bin. Brilliant for fertilizer, tea, compost activator etc.etc.
    !

    Comfrey has a lot of medicinal uses and I've often used it for poultices on septic cuts. It's one of those plants that come up every year whether you want it or not so be careful where you plant it! Lot of info here http://www.allotment.org.uk/vegetable/comfrey/comfrey.PDF


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    fodda wrote: »
    I thought nettles grew in disturbed land usually around rubble etc? Poor land?

    They favour fertile soil and have a high nitrogen content so they are good for a liquid feed(not as good as comfrey) esp for leafy veg and plants. It's the younger plants that are best to make tea with.

    The older nettles can be made into human tea and it has high vitamin, folic acid and calicium content as well as being a diuretic and some anti inflammatory uses.
    Gonzor wrote: »
    Sounds like a bit of craic for some day. HAve you a link for it...??

    I don't no, I can't even remember where I read it tbh, I just wrote it down in my own almanac. I've not tried it yet either so can't say how it works but just as you said it seemed like it could be a bit of fun as I already know my soil's PH.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Ophiopogon wrote: »
    I don't no, I can't even remember where I read it tbh, I just wrote it down in my own almanac. I've not tried it yet either so can't say how it works but just as you said it seemed like it could be a bit of fun as I already know my soil's PH.

    And old classic with many online refernces:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_cabbage
    http://kidsgardenclub.org/wfdata/frame119-1006/pressrel10.asp
    http://www.clt.uwa.edu.au/__data/page/112506/fsp23_soilpH.pdf

    As you can see from some of the links its a good one for kids to try.

    Google red cabbage soil ph for more


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    I think its really quite simple if you want to be Self Sufficient in food and live in Ireland you need to grow a Sh!T load of spuds. Thats the long and short of it! Lets say you are working hard outside most of the day and need 3000 (3k) calories so thats going to require you to eat seven and a half pounds of spuds if you don't have any other calorie rich food source. At that rate in a year you'll eat your way through at least 2700 pounds of potatoes, 2700 pounds of potatoes is nearly One and a Half Tons.

    OK so thats a big generalisation but if you don't grow potatoes what else are you going to eat that stores well, grows well in Ireland and provides a lot of caloires if the SHTF and you are left to grow your own?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    I think its really quite simple if you want to be Self Sufficient in food and live in Ireland you need to grow a Sh!T load of spuds. Thats the long and short of it! Lets say you are working hard outside most of the day and need 3000 (3k) calories so thats going to require you to eat seven and a half pounds of spuds if you don't have any other calorie rich food source. At that rate in a year you'll eat your way through at least 2700 pounds of potatoes, 2700 pounds of potatoes is nearly One and a Half Tons.

    OK so thats a big generalisation but if you don't grow potatoes what else are you going to eat that stores well, grows well in Ireland and provides a lot of caloires if the SHTF and you are left to grow your own?

    I think choosing potatoes as a primary food/calorie source has already shown to have disasterous consequences. ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    I think its really quite simple if you want to be Self Sufficient in food and live in Ireland you need to grow a Sh!T load of spuds. Thats the long and short of it! Lets say you are working hard outside most of the day and need 3000 (3k) calories so thats going to require you to eat seven and a half pounds of spuds if you don't have any other calorie rich food source. At that rate in a year you'll eat your way through at least 2700 pounds of potatoes, 2700 pounds of potatoes is nearly One and a Half Tons.

    OK so thats a big generalisation but if you don't grow potatoes what else are you going to eat that stores well, grows well in Ireland and provides a lot of caloires if the SHTF and you are left to grow your own?

    I think choosing potatoes as a primary food/calorie source has already shown to have disasterous consequences. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭sfakiaman


    I think its really quite simple if you want to be Self Sufficient in food and live in Ireland you need to grow a Sh!T load of spuds?

    You'd want to stock up on Sh!t loads of Dithane if thats the plan. I grew about that much last year an about 20% rotted in the ground because of the wet :(. Been thinking of Jerusalem artichokes, planted a few last year and it went ok.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Ophiopogon wrote: »
    I think choosing potatoes as a primary food/calorie source has already shown to have disasterous consequences. ;)

    So what else can you grow in Ireland that will provide you with the calorie intake?

    And say you've had a while to get yourself sorted out what could you have grown yourself and be eating now at the end of February?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    sfakiaman wrote: »
    You'd want to stock up on Sh!t loads of Dithane if thats the plan. I grew about that much last year an about 20% rotted in the ground because of the wet :(. Been thinking of Jerusalem artichokes, planted a few last year and it went ok.

    Add that to one of the reasons for needing a gas mask :o

    I'm only posing the question about potatoes because it gives an idea of the scale of growing thats necessary to sustain yourself and is feasable provided you have some understanding of how to minimise the effects of phytophthora infestans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    It depends on what your resources are (with a polytunnel alot could still be growing, but potatoes are not the only veg that stores esp if you add in canning etc. It does not matter what your knowledge is re blight, banking on one veg would never work.

    Also,you wouldn't only be eating veg to make your calories...milk, eggs,meat etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    Ophiopogon wrote: »
    It depends on what your resources are (with a polytunnel alot could still be growing, but potatoes are not the only veg that stores esp if you add in canning etc. It does not matter what your knowledge is re blight, banking on one veg would never work.

    Also,you wouldn't only be eating veg to make your calories...milk, eggs,meat etc.

    Sorry I wouldn't make the same point in the gardening forum but because this is the Survivalism and Self Sufficiency forum I'm making a more extreme point than I might otherwise. I'm trying to see what alternatives there are and people think they have when many would start out with nothing and then have to grow something to survive.

    btw I didn't mean to sound clever saying phytophthora infestans instead of potato blight, I was trying to find a refernce to the type of blight that destroyed the potato crops in the famine to have died out itself but couldn't find the refernce I was looking for (so I was probably wrong) and editing what I started to write left me with phytophthora infestans :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭evilmonkee


    I think its really quite simple if you want to be Self Sufficient in food...

    Your post is looking at a very specific idea of Self Sufficient, the main problem with this is , for example, if TEOTWAWKI happened in 6 months, what knowledge of growing would you have? why experience would you have? would you have to learn on-the-fly or would you have previous experience?

    Why not learn techniques now, such as making fertilizer and growing different plants in your garden using resources available to you naturally etc.

    As I've said before, my own personal interests are in short term emergenices & in general self sufficient or DIY gardening, not to be completely self sufficient and live off the food, but to grow it in the most self sufficient way possible.

    However with the skills I know, I could increase the scale of growing, if a situation was to occur where it was necessary


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    Sorry I wouldn't make the same point in the gardening forum but because this is the Survivalism and Self Sufficiency forum I'm making a more extreme point than I might otherwise. I'm trying to see what alternatives there are and people think they have when many would start out with nothing and then have to grow something to survive.

    :o

    TBH I don't really get where your coming from, you seem to be saying the only way to surrvive is to grow potatoes. I'm saying this would not work.

    If you have the resources to grow potatoes you prob have the resources to grow something else as well.

    I thought the point of this thread was to share self sufficient tips.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    Ophiopogon wrote: »
    It does not matter what your knowledge is re blight, banking on one veg would never work.
    The humble spud is a very potent source of everything needed to live though, the population of Ireland grew to half again what it is today back in the nineteenth century on the back of it, people were eating little else. The quantity of food produced per acre is bigger than most other foods as well. All of this and more are why China is starting to turn to the potato as its food of choice. Add in milk or eggs or some sort of meat once a week and you'll be grand.

    This being Ireland of course many farms have a good supply of blight spray, or you can make your own if you stocked up on bluestone. Some have reported success with a tincture of nettles as well. Then we have more recent breeds of blight resistant potatoes, as time goes on the threat of blight will vanish entirely.

    I absolutely agree that monoculture is a bad idea though, in the long term.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    The humble spud is a very potent source of everything needed to live though, the population of Ireland grew to half again what it is today back in the nineteenth century on the back of it, people were eating little else. The quantity of food produced per acre is bigger than most other foods as well. All of this and more are why China is starting to turn to the potato as its food of choice. Add in milk or eggs or some sort of meat once a week and you'll be grand.

    This being Ireland of course many farms have a good supply of blight spray, or you can make your own if you stocked up on bluestone. Some have reported success with a tincture of nettles as well. Then we have more recent breeds of blight resistant potatoes, as time goes on the threat of blight will vanish entirely.

    I absolutely agree that monoculture is a bad idea though, in the long term.

    My issue is with the "all you need is potatoes" point.

    I get that they are very useful but I always look to the look term. You'll be grand on the diet but again as I said if you have the resources to grow potatoes form the start than you could grow other vegetables as well...this is all I am saying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    I'm not a particularly knowledgeable gardener myself to be honest, lets say I wanted to get seeds and start preparing now, what types of seeds and what proportions of them would you recommend?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    I'm not a particularly knowledgeable gardener myself to be honest, lets say I wanted to get seeds and start preparing now, what types of seeds and what proportions of them would you recommend?

    Depends on what area you have and how many people you have to feed.

    At the moment I'm very short on space but I also only have two people to grow for. There are a number of plants you can grow successionally so for instance for us I sow 10/12 lettuce seeds every two weeks so I should have a consent supply. I've started broad beans but I've only sown 6 seeds as it's a new variety, I sown a load of basil as well. I will be sowing a large amount of tomatoes this year as I want to try canning.This year I think I will only grow carrots,beetroot, chilli, courgettes, broad beans, a number of herbs and salads.

    I'm hoping to get my hands on some land and build my own polytunnel and when this happens I will increase my veg output.

    If you have enough land than all you have to do is work out exactly how much you would eat. I actually don't like potatoes :o so even if I have the land I would prob only have a few token plants. Or in the case of carrots, you could say one seed produces one carrot but at the same time if you sow 10 seeds, you may have to thin out 4/5 leaving you with 5/6 carrots.

    If you really do want to grow something these year you may need to get started on it now...would you know what you want to grow?

    I actually focus more on flowers as I want to increase the biodiversity of my urban area esp as I have no bloody room.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Here is a question for those in the know with growing.

    If I plant an acre of the humble spud to be prepared, would I have to harvest the whole crop or could it be planted and left for a period of time? In other words would a potato crop self sustain for a few years?

    How about carrots, swede, turnip etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    krissovo wrote: »
    Here is a question for those in the know with growing.

    If I plant an acre of the humble spud to be prepared, would I have to harvest the whole crop or could it be planted and left for a period of time? In other words would a potato crop self sustain for a few years?

    How about carrots, swede, turnip etc?

    I think all vegetables have a high nutrient need so if you were to leave the potaotes in the ground for a few years you would end up with an nutrient deficiency. Crop rotation is best practice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    krissovo wrote: »
    Here is a question for those in the know with growing.

    If I plant an acre of the humble spud to be prepared, would I have to harvest the whole crop or could it be planted and left for a period of time? In other words would a potato crop self sustain for a few years?

    How about carrots, swede, turnip etc?

    For about ten years I grew at least half a tonne of main crop spuds and up to a quarter tonne of earlies.

    While its bl00dy difficult to get rid of volunteer spuds (those that come up in the following year in another crop) they don't last well left over winter in the soil. So if you planted an acre left it and came back 2 years later you'd might not have much and you'd be compounding any pest and disease problems, so even any you rescued might not even be good for seed. You'd be better off planting just a few and digging them up each year and keeping them all for seed the following year. If you want to plant something edible and almost indestructible then the already mentioned Jerusalem artichoke is to my mind a bomb proof weed that you can leave in the soil but still better if regulary dug and replanted - Chinese artichokes are good but not seen them in years. The effects of Jerusalem artichokes on the human body are well known, one place I worked they were often refered to as fartichokes.

    I think I mentioned in another thread that you should be using fresh seed potatoes as they are grown in conditions that mean they should be virus free and pest free, just like tomatoes potatoes pick up viruses transfered by aphids very easily. That said I grew King Edwards (the worst for Blight) from our own seed many years. Potato Cyst Nematode (eelworm) will also become a problem over time, fresh certified seed potatoes should be eelworm free.

    Crop rotation is good but I'd be doing it with most crops to reduce the pest (eelworms for one) and disease problems and not so much because the soil gets nutrient deficient (still a good reason). Living by the sea and keeping chickens makes putting something back quite easy (seaweed and chicken **** and a composted mix of the two). I'd go as far and try and have a 4 year crop rotation as it will help deal with eelworms and many other crop specific pests but that needs quite an area. Lime isn't good for potatoes so I used follow with brassicas after potatoes in the rotation and pump the soil (which was acid in the garden I grew all the spuds in) full of lime, then it would be another 3 or more years before potatoes were grow in the same spot.

    Carrots suede turnips parsnips or almost any root crop will rot away over winter, be eaten by pests and if they get to flowering in the second year will then die right off. Scorzerona is sometimes grown on for a second year or more and that might also apply to Salsify.

    btw I said the long and short of it is you need to grow a sh!t load of spuds not that you shouldn't grow anything else.

    I've not grow a lot of potatoes for a few years as its easier to buy them in Lidl :o but this year I'm going to try and grow some first earlies in wire cages full of just fresh seaweed to see how it goes - thats if the seaweed I've got my eye on on the beach doesn't wash away before the weekend :). Might be a total failure but I'd like to see if it works or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Ophiopogon


    What's your other experiments anyway, Evilmonkee?


  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭sfakiaman


    Things that store quite successfully are carrots and onions, beetroot can be pickled very easily and many fruits can be made into jam or wine. Things that come up every year in my garden and that I can use now (because of mild winter) are chives, fennel and herbs like sage, thyme and rosemary that stuff might not be food as such but would make wild meat (rook?) palatable. Any kind of fruit tree or bush will give a return without too much work, I have apple, plum, pear, walnut, raspberry, gooseberry, strawberry, and blackcurrant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    I've not grow a lot of potatoes for a few years as its easier to buy them in Lidl :o

    This is the challenge for modern prepping, with a full time job and small family growing anything but a small crop for a bit of fun and experience is impossible given the effort involved.

    I guess stocking up on seeds and having 12 months of stored food is the only real option. However our best source of food the humble spud from a quick google seams a challenge to store as a seed long term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    krissovo wrote: »
    I guess stocking up on seeds and having 12 months of stored food is the only real option. However our best source of food the humble spud from a quick google seams a challenge to store as a seed long term.
    Quite true. What I've noticed myself, is if a tightly packed planting of well tended potatoes is left for a few years, it thins out and spreads out as other invasive species move in and disease takes its toll. Eventually it ends up as just another weed.

    After that time you can still harvest the remaining spuds and pack them into a regular planting pattern again, but if you want to stick them in a vacuum sealed ziploc bag and keep them for a few years, that's not going to work. Any kind of warmth means the shoots will punch right through the plastic and just about anything else. Maybe frozen?

    Still with that said the variety of seeds that you can both store long term and don't need intensive care in our climate is pretty limited. Like many sorts of survival stocks, potatoes would need regular replacement.

    One benefit of spuds is that in the event of a SHTF scenario, one standard bag of spuds from any supermarket will produce 10-12 times its own weight in food (cut them in half) and will overwinter quite nicely in the ground. Most people have a good planting crop at all times in their kitchens.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭baords dyslexic


    krissovo wrote: »
    This is the challenge for modern prepping, with a full time job and small family growing anything but a small crop for a bit of fun and experience is impossible given the effort involved.

    I guess stocking up on seeds and having 12 months of stored food is the only real option. However our best source of food the humble spud from a quick google seams a challenge to store as a seed long term.

    Don't forget you can take any spud off the supermarket shelf and use it as a seed potato. Certified seed should be better but any spud will do even giant baking potatoes if thats all you've got. You can even grow potatoes from the peelings if their are some eyes left in them, just you won't get much of a crop in the first year again if its all you've got its a start.

    Edit: Doc seems to have got in and said some of that before me, btw you can't freeze potato seed to store it and you need to keep all your seed and eating store of spuds frost free, which with a large crop can be quite a challenge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,516 ✭✭✭Maudi


    evilmonkee wrote: »
    As many of you know, I enjoy a bit of GIY!

    Now, I don't believe in buying every little thing from a supplier, quite the opposite, I believe in buying the bare minimum. My own personal interest isn't based specifically in the survivalism relm, but it is intended to be as self sufficient as possible.

    So to get the ball rolling, I'm going to quickly detail some of the DIY things I do, I won't go into detail but if you want to know more about something, please ask and hopefully we can get a DIY gardening discussion going!

    1. Here's how I analyse my land:

    Squeeze test: This includes digging up some soil and squeezing it, depending on how the ball holds/ falls apart, this will indicate the type of soil.

    Fertility test: Dig a small hole, look for soil helping organisms eg. worms.
    Look at what grows naturally, eg.nettles indicate fertile soil which has many nutrients.

    Drainage: Dig a hole, wait for rain :) . You can fill the hole with water, however this does not mimic natural drainage as the quantity of water is likely much greater than rain.

    2. Helper plants / other stuff!

    Comfrey: I have a main plant which I grow in a large pot in the greenhouse (this is my main plant), children plants are planted at the sides of the compost bin to drink up the nutrients which are leeched from the bin. Brilliant for fertilizer, tea, compost activator etc.etc.

    Nettles: I have a nettle patch growing, I grow them in an otherwise unusable patch in the garden. Brilliant for making liquid fertilizer.

    Compost Bin: need I say more?!

    A drying system for grass/weeds: As anyone with a compost bin will know, its hard to get enough brown material, I made a raised bed with old pallets, which I fill with grass cuttings, pulled weeds etc. This is covered by 2 old glass patio doors, this creates a drying box to dry out these things before using them as brown matter for the compost bin.

    Homebrew fertilizer: Many 2lt milk bottles, brewing nettle, comfrey and tea fertilizer.

    Rainwater harvesting system : In the pipeline, currently have 2 old wheelie bins which are awaiting the transformation into this. plus 1 blue barrel.

    I also have a few "experiments" growing in the garden, but thats for another post!
    the wheelie bin water but is brill.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭the drifter


    How suitable is a conservatory for growing some salads such as lettuce indoors?


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