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utv still being blocked by tv3!!!

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  • Originally posted by BrianD
    Still don't agree!
    Well we know that :p
    On the other hand both TV3 and UTV are commercial broadcasters and they are competing for a slice of the advertising market. If TV3 lose audience to UTV they will also lose advertising revenue. It all comes down to money.
    and that is the Q.E.D for my contention that TV3 block UTV.
    You've conceded that RTÉ have the same power to Block the BBC and they don't, but that TV3 do Block UTV on Skyin ROI for fear of losing viewers.
    Mind you you didn't have to tell us that it's fairly obvious.
    In reality, UTV probably have more favouring them in the Republic than they would like us to believe - widespread distribution without having to buy the programme rights for that audience and completely free from regulation. At the same time there "home" territory is completely protected from competition.
    No it's not as virtually all of NI can receive both RTÉ and TV3 via an aerial.
    UTV have not got that advantage in TV3's licenced area so TV3 actually unfairly compete with UTV in the North whilst denying UTV the privilege of doing the same in the South.
    RTE hasn't blocked BBC's FTA decision for a very simple reason. RTE is a public service broadcaster as is the bbc. Yes RTE takes advertising and while it may lose audience share to BBC it will never lose and a cent of advertising revenue.
    Of course RTÉ lose advertising revenue by the free availability of the BBC.
    If RTÉ have less audience due to people watching the free BBC, RTÉ will have less and or cheaper advertising.
    Advertising fee's and quantities are based on viewership.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    UTV have not got that advantage in TV3's licenced area so TV3 actually unfairly compete with UTV in the North whilst denying UTV the privilege of doing the same in the South

    Ridiculous!!! In fact UTV have greater penetration in the south whether by aerial or via distribution on deflectors, CATV, MMDS. I don't think TV3 has the same luxury in northern networks.
    Of course RTÉ lose advertising revenue by the free availability of the BBC.

    Yup, I can see all those ads going to the BBC networks. RTE may lose audience share to BBC but certainly not a single audience dollar. You try buying an advert during Eastenders on BBC1. As RTE has the cushion of the licence fee it doesn't have to be a s commercially aggressive as UTV or TV3. Of course, it's audience can be diluted over time which will ultimately push down the cost of airtime and ultimately advertising revenues for RTE.

    Bottom line is that TV3 still don't block UTV. If TV3 folds tomorrow morning UTV will not be on Sky Digital until UTV has purchased the rights to the various programmes for the RoI. As TV3 owns these rights it may well be an obstacle to UTV but certainly not blocking them.

    UTV do not fairly compete in this market and unless they agree to be regulated in the RoI they should be kept out. On a personal note, I watch very little of either station but on a point of principal - fair play to TV3. At the end of the day, the TV viewer is not losing out.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    On a personal note, I watch very little of either station but on a point of principal - fair play to TV3

    I refuse to watch UTV on a point that I hate their style of presenation and their regional programmes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Originally posted by BrianD
    S

    RTE hasn't blocked BBC's FTA decision for a very simple reason.

    RTE had absolutely no say in the matter, thank god. The prophets of doom who forecasted massive job losses got it hopelessly wrong.

    Tony

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭PK - the king


    BrianD I dont know where you're basing your opinions from but they are quite lacking of facts.

    You say TV3 is not blocking UTV. Well, Brian, the only one who does not understand the issue seems to be you. Because TV3 is there, UTV is prevented from broadcasting via satellite here in ROI. If TV3 was not there, there would be no issue. Therefore, 2+2=4 and this shows that TV3 is the ultimate reason for UTV being prevented from broadcasting. Even TV3 THEMSELVES ADMIT that they are the reason for UTV being absent on the sky package!!! Maybe you should READ the article posted previously :rolleyes:

    Everyone is entitled to their opinions - and that's all they are - opinions. We will only fully know if UTV will join ROI either via EPG or FTA in August, when their encrypt contract runs out.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Originally posted by BrianD

    Bottom line is that TV3 still don't block UTV. If TV3 folds tomorrow morning UTV will not be on Sky Digital until UTV has purchased the rights to the various programmes for the RoI. As TV3 owns these rights it may well be an obstacle to UTV but certainly not blocking them.


    Completely untrue, TV3 are holding this up on the basis of a clause in their contract with Granada when granada took equity in TV3. If TV3 went bust tomorrow UTV would be on Sky digital, no ifs ands or but's. UTV had signed a carriage agreement with sky when this clause came to light. TV3 NEVER purchased the rights to Granada programmimg, it formed a part of the equity deal.

    Tony

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 294 ✭✭PK - the king


    Good man Tony!!! :D:D:D

    TV3 IS the ultimate cause of UTV being blocked - and there are no 2 ways about it, BrianD.




  • Originally posted by BrianD
    Ridiculous!!! In fact UTV have greater penetration in the south whether by aerial or via distribution on deflectors, CATV, MMDS. I don't think TV3 has the same luxury in northern networks.
    Actually RTÉ is available on cable in the North.
    Both RTÉ and TV3 are available more widely free from an aerial than UTV is in the "South"
    Yup, I can see all those ads going to the BBC networks. RTE may lose audience share to BBC but certainly not a single audience dollar. You try buying an advert during Eastenders on BBC1.
    Re-read what I said.
    RTÉ charge and receive advertising as per audience share.
    Ergo if there is a popular programme on BBC one, RTE won't have the audience at the same time and therefore the advertising revenue as they'll take the adds but won't be able to charges as much for them as if the BBC weren't there.
    You haven't and cannot refute that, so therefore your statement about them not losing one cent of advertising income due to the BBC is patently false.
    They have embraced the BBC's competition why can't TV3 embrace UTV??
    It's because they don't like the competition - RTÉ in fairness to them don't mind, otherwise they would have objected like TV3 do...
    UTV do not fairly compete in this market and unless they agree to be regulated in the RoI they should be kept out.
    If you believe that then TV3 and RTÉ should by the same logic be regulated in NI...as they are almost
    universally receivable there.
    As TV3 owns these rights it may well be an obstacle to UTV but certainly not blocking them.
    Again incorrect as has been pointed out umpteen times to you via the RTÉ example.
    I'll say it again the BBC and RTÉ share programmes in common and the BBC are freely available across Ireland for not a penny, no fee whatsoever...
    They are taking viewers and consequently lowering RTÉ's advertising income, yet they are not blocked, because RTE have not kicked up the same fuss as TV3.
    Ergo TV3 are blocking UTV on Sky digital in ROI for fear of the competition which is a restrictive practice and out of kilter with the competition friendly RTÉ.
    South Coast TV seem to have no problem "deflecting" ITV signals in Munster for many years. I gather it was HTV that deflectors in the south were rebroadcasting rather than UTV. Unfortunately, for Dsat subscribers it would appear that the TV rights holders have learned from CATV experiences and development and seem to have copperfastened the rights and geographical distribution of programmes with satellite.
    No.
    As has been clearly established by the RTÉ case, the only group that copperfastens UTV's difficulty acessing the ROI geographical area is TV3's dislike of competition.It is they that are excercising the blockage via the rightsholders and not the rightsholders on their own, who clearly in the case of RTÉ were prepared to overlook the BBC broadcasting common programmes to the Republic of Ireland.

    The situation regarding UTV being blocked by TV3 is so clear, you would see it through the worst case of cateracts.

    Interesting that you mention SCCTV as they actually received along with other deflector groups a licence to re-broadcast ITV legally recently while Sky digital did not.
    Prior to that they were doing it illegally.
    I don't see TV3 sue-ing SCCTV either...
    Not hard to figure out why, they don't want to rock the boat...


  • Registered Users Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    RTE hasn't blocked BBC's FTA decision for a very simple reason. RTE is a public service broadcaster as is the bbc. Yes RTE takes advertising and while it may lose audience share to BBC it will never lose and a cent of advertising revenue. Hence, you won't hear too many complaints about the BBC from Montrose.
    RTÉ have the same power to Block the BBC and they don't


    Eh, actually, the sat rights for programmes in the ROI were already owned by BBC Worldwide - that's why you had BBC1 and BBC2 NI on Sky long before they went FTA. RTE didn't negotiate any Sat rights as they didn't intend to Broadcast on Sat. So they couldn't have stopped the BBC, other than refusing to buy any more programmes and well, let's face it that wasn't an option.
    And indeed why would you bother with expensive sat rights when you can (just about) broadcast to Europe on longwave instead.... ahem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭Charles Slane


    I think that anyone who has been following this topic closely is well aware that it is TV3 who are the main (if not only) stumbling block to UTV's appearance on Sky Digital.

    While it IS likely that ITV will go free to air this autumn after the success of the BBC's brave move, this will not ensure the appearance of UTV (or indeed any other ITV channel) on the Sky EPG.

    BBC3, BBC4, News 24 etc have been FTA for some time and still they have not been placed on the Irish EPG.

    This is important because the vast majority of people just won't be bothered to add the channels and if they do, they won't look at them very often.

    So regardless of whether ITV goes FTA, UTV will still want a good placing on the EPG.

    Now frankly I'd rather watch just about ANY ITV region other than UTV (and often do), but I can see that it's the only ITV region that is likely to be seen by Irish Sky viewers on their EPG.

    So the question is - is there any way we can put additional pressure on TV3 to lift the block on UTV ?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4 markdub


    BBC still pay nds in the uk to provide the correct regional variation on every card - - - ie the london viewers have bbc1 london and bbc 2eng on 101 +102 , the guys in scot get bbc 1 scot and bbc2 scot on 101 102 ----ITV and ch4 will do the same when the encryption contract ends - - ps When will u people get a life!!! scannin the skys for tid bits of british programming!!! come on dont be loooosers all yer lives - network2 and rte 1 have come up in my books - ps i get sky for free on 2 cards!!! yipeee - cause i work 4 em hahah --- wouldnt dream of ever paying for that clap trap- the epg sucks! - box cant tune to "tropical satellites " why do you people pay for stuff that is already being transmitted 4 free? -- ps boycott sky and all their bas%$@# channels - why cant the Irish gov get off their asses and ban this maggie thatcher organisation from polluting our airwaves ----bring in HBO


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    So the question is - is there any way we can put additional pressure on TV3 to lift the block on UTV ?

    Do we live in a communist country? a banana republic?

    Why not put the pressure on UTV to buy the rights? Why not put pressure on UTV to enter the market as a "full time" play and be regulated in this market? Even if TV3 said in the morning that they had no problem with UTV on Sky Digital, UTV would still not appear.

    It is the most unusual and ridiculous statement to even suggest that TV3 are blocking UTV. UTV do not have the copyright clearance to broadcast their programmes on the Sky Digital platform.


    To somehow put pressure on the rightsholder to cede their competitive advantage and the intellectual property rights that they have purchased, is quite frankly disgusting. At the end of the day, the TV viewer is not in anyway disadvantaged by this alleged Tv3 blocking of UTV.

    As a matter of interest, given that UTV and C4 seem to be a package and would more than likely appear on the EPG at the same time. Which channel is the more desirable?

    I have also heard that UTV will not appear on 105 and this reserved for another Irish channel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    There are none so deaf as those who will not hear. This is not a rights issue its a contractual issue. You can only buy rights when they are available for sale.

    The rights issues were already agreed between UTV and granada before TV3 's lawyers stepped in with the clause in the agreement between TV3 and Granada.


    Originally posted by BrianD
    Do we live in a communist country? a banana republic?

    Why not put the pressure on UTV to buy the rights?

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Whats unusual and ridiculous is your failure to acknowledge the facts of the situation. TV3 themselves acknowledge they are preventing UTV from appearing, why wont you? Are you the PR spokesperson for NTL perhaps ?

    Tony



    Originally posted by BrianD

    It is the most unusual and ridiculous statement to even suggest that TV3 are blocking UTV.


    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    I have no involvement in NTL/TV3/UTV/Sky Digital.

    If you call TV 3 asserting their rights as a programme rights holder "blocking" UTV then fair play to TV3 and long may it continue. UTV haven't the right to be on the Irish EPG. Why? They don't own the programme rights for the RoI - when they do, there will be no issue with UTV being on Sky Digital.

    I find it unbelievable that viewers are stating that TV3 should relinquish their rights in favour of a competitor. I mean where else would this happen? If UTV come into the market on an equal footing with TV3 then it is fair competition between both outfits.

    Ultimately, the viewer is not disadvantaged nor is it uncompetitive.
    There are none so deaf as those who will not hear. This is not a rights issue its a contractual issue. You can only buy rights when they are available for sale.

    Less of the patronising stuff, Tony. Tv3 have purchased the rights to the programming for this territory. It is my understanding that these are sold on exclusive basis and on the size and nature of the audience. If UTV want to be an all Ireland player they should get their bid in when the rights are next available.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,726 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    Pfft! C'mere boy, chase your tail, chase you tail!

    :rolleyes:

    This thread is over. If BrianD cant see beyond that Sunday Times article quoted on page 1 of this thread, if he cant see beyond this quote from UTV
    “We understand from Granada that TV3 is opposed to these satellite rights being granted,” UTV said.
    then that's it. Can't force him any further folks.

    Congrats, Locked.




  • Originally posted by BrianD

    If you call TV 3 asserting their rights as a programme rights holder "blocking" UTV then fair play to TV3 and long may it continue. UTV haven't the right to be on the Irish EPG. Why? They don't own the programme rights for the RoI - when they do, there will be no issue with UTV being on Sky Digital.

    Ok the title of this thread is UTV still blocked by TV3.
    Brian you've conceded at this stage that, this is the case.
    It is also clear from our discussions here that RTÉ are not insisting that programmes they buy in common with the BBC mean the BBC should be blocked here.
    Ergo TV3 are using their contract to protect them selves from further competition whilst RTÉ are not.
    Now thats an understandable position for them to take but the question is should it be allowed and secondly should TV rights holders be allowed to differentiate in such a manner in a supposed European free market.
    It's not allowed in many other areas, why should TV be so special, given that this is a E.U?
    In my view it flies in the face of what a common market should be.




  • I didn't see that DMC had closed this thread as I was writing my last reply at the time ;)

    Thread closed


This discussion has been closed.
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