Orange markers in Glenmalure and on Lug

quadsofflug · 27-02-2012 6:08pm #1

Was in Glenmalure at the weekend and went up to Kelly's Lough and on to Lug. From Drumgoff up there were lots of orange spray markers. Lost them when we cut up to Kelly's Lough but met them again on Corrigasligaun. Lost them again there, next saw them on the summit of Lug with arrows pointing towards Fenton's. Met a man who said he had followed them up from the Barravore car park, so we went down that way to have a look. They were marking the route up from (but not down to) the Barravore car park. Saw then again on the road near the zig-zags.

Does anyone know what they're about? And what route they are supposed to be marking, because they seem to be all over the place. I saw stuff about them on Mountaineering Ireland's facebook but nobody said why they were there - good photo of one there.

What do people think of markers like this? I think it's a disgrace - leaving spray paint markers is no different than leaving litter. And it's HIGHLY irresponsible to mark a route up a mountain but not back down. The guy we met on top said he only came up because he was following the markers, he had no map, no gps and no clue. He couldn't have found his way down again using the markers because they were only only the downhill side of the rocks and not visible from above.

Alun · 27-02-2012 6:15pm

Saw a load of them on Saturday as well, on the route up from Baravore to Fraughan Rock Glen. I wondered what they were all about too. More than likely some organized "challenge" or the other.

Gillo · 27-02-2012 6:18pm

Alun wrote: »

Saw a load of them on Saturday as well, on the route up from Baravore to Fraughan Rock Glen. I wondered what they were all about too. More than likely some organized "challenge" or the other.

Saw a photo of them, hopefully whoevers responsible will get a very hefty fine to put others off doing the same.
If it is for some challenge give it a few years and the place will be completely destroyed.

Slogger Jogger · 27-02-2012 8:20pm

If its an organised event and someone is using permanent spray they want their heads examined. They should go back immediately and clean it off. I expect its just out and out vandalism unfortunately. :mad:

Gillo · 27-02-2012 11:49pm

It's a lot of effort if it's just vandalism, it does sound of sometime organised.

Does anyone know if the National Parks have been informed?

If its a safety idea, it's pointless, it'll just give a false sense of security and cause more problems.

quadsofflug · 29-02-2012 10:40am

I heard a rumour last night which alarmed me - it was all a bit vague but the jist of it is the orange markers were put there by a man from Arklow who survived cancer and is now organising fundraisers.

Allegedly he had 100 people up lug at the weekend as a fundraiser. But the really worrying thing is that he is planning more of them on other mountains, does this mean he'll be taking a spray can to more of wicklow's mountains?:eek:

Has anybody else heard anything about this? Or if anyone knows the man involved can you ask him to consider a different way of marking the routes. It can be done with bamboo cane with streamers and these can taken down by at the end of the event.

Alun · 29-02-2012 10:52am

I think I found it with a bit of Googling!!! Look here, right at the bottom of the page ...

http://www.wicklowwalkingtours.com/fundraiser-for-st-vincent-de-paul.php

Hi, 22.2.2012 not much to report, walking nearly every day, takes a lot of training to get fit enough to be ready for the Munich to Venice Challenge.
We marked the route for the Lug Challenge carefully all the way from the lodge up to the top of Lugnaquilla and back to the lodge, it should get everybody there and back safely.

So, what next? I'm not sure whether all of that area is within the confines of the WMNP, so there's maybe not much point contacting them.

EDIT: I've written to them anyway, and I suggest others do too. I'll see if there's a suitable contact within Mountaineering Ireland too.

Gillo · 29-02-2012 11:22am

Alun wrote: »

EDIT: I've written to them anyway, and I suggest others do too. I'll see if there's a suitable contact within Mountaineering Ireland too.

Whoever runs the Mountaineering Ireland Facebook page posted about, that'd be a easy point of contact, I think they also have a conservation officer.

I wrote to them too, I'd also suggest writing to the V. D. P. as they may not be aware of what Wicklow Walking Tours are doing regarding the markers.

Alun · 29-02-2012 11:41am

Gillo wrote: »

Whoever runs the Mountaineering Ireland Facebook page posted about, that'd be a easy point of contact, I think they also have a conservation officer.

I wrote to them too, I'd also suggest writing to the V. D. P. as they may not be aware of what Wicklow Walking Tours are doing regarding the markers.

I've written to Helen Lawless who's MI's Hillwalking, Access and Conservation Officer, but got an out-of-office auto reply. I'm not sure there's a lot of point contacting VDP though.

Gillo · 29-02-2012 12:05pm

Alun wrote: »

I've written to Helen Lawless who's MI's Hillwalking, Access and Conservation Officer, but got an out-of-office auto reply. I'm not sure there's a lot of point contacting VDP though.

I would have thought the VDP, contracted WWT to run the sponsored walk. They may or may not be aware of the markings, no harm sending an email to them.

quadsofflug · 29-02-2012 7:47pm

Most of it is in the National Park, and the rest of it is in a protected area. As far as I know it's Wicklow Mountain National Park who look after the whole of the wicklow mountains (inside or outside the park) so they are the ones to contact. this is setting a very bad precedent for fundraising events, imagine if every fundraiser did this sort of thing before there event - before long the mountains would look would look like they had caught a dose of colourful chickenpox! You can email them at wmnp@environ.ie, they'll probably need a bit of pressure applied to do anything, and if the event is supposed to taking place on saturday they'll need to act quickly. Acting quickly is not usually something that happens in gov agencies!

SVP do have a responsibility here too - any fundraising should be ethical and vandalising a national park or protected area is not ethical. The 'Lug Challange' is the event of the week on their fundraising section! http://svp.ie/Help-Us/Events.aspx

I seem to remember someone was fined last year for putting graffiti on Carrauntoohil - I really don't see why this is any different.

quadsofflug · 29-02-2012 9:16pm

Alun wrote: »

I think I found it with a bit of Googling!!! Look here, right at the bottom of the page ...

http://www.wicklowwalkingtours.com/fundraiser-for-st-vincent-de-paul.php

Hi, 22.2.2012 not much to report, walking nearly every day, takes a lot of training to get fit enough to be ready for the Munich to Venice Challenge.
We marked the route for the Lug Challenge carefully all the way from the lodge up to the top of Lugnaquilla and back to the lodge, it should get everybody there and back safely.

The website has been updated it now says

Hi, 22.2.2012 not much to report, walking nearly every day, takes a lot of training to get fit enough to be ready for the Munich to Venice Challenge.

Hi, 29.2.2012 we been practising hard, walking every day, soon we should be fit enough to do the Alps.

They obviously coped they might get in trouble. Unfortunately, it won't be so easy to erase the evidence from the hills :mad:

Alun · 29-02-2012 10:09pm

quadsofflug wrote: »

The website has been updated it now says

They obviously coped they might get in trouble. Unfortunately, it won't be so easy to erase the evidence from the hills :mad:

That kind of proves that they were the culprits then.

hmmm · 29-02-2012 10:37pm

FFS this is awful. The organiser needs to come out and apologise quickly otherwise it will just snowball, we'll have every charity in the country putting markers down.

Gravale · 01-03-2012 1:44am

This is still on the Wicklow Walking Tours site:

http://www.wicklowwalkingtours.com/fundraiser-for-st-vincent-de-paul.php

The Lug Challenge

The first event is the Lug Challenge, where we invite hill walkers from all over Ireland to partake. This hill walk is organized for the first Saturday in March, 3.3.2012 and the meeting point is the Glenmalure Lodge in Glenmalure, Co. Wicklow, meeting at 10 o'clock in the car park of the lodge. Entry fee for this walk is 20 euro per person. This walk is a challenging walk, about 6 hours in length and climbing to a height of nearly 1000m. People wanting to take part in this, please register in registration form below.

We will announce all forthcoming fundraising events on this page as soon as they have been organized.

Register now

quadsofflug · 02-03-2012 1:32am

This guy's unbelievable!

From Mountaineering Irelands facebook page thursday morning

Ulrich Loos: Hi, markings have nothing to do with me, but all the same I was up there lately and I found the marking handy.

http://www.facebook.com/mountaineeringireland

Then from his own website thursday evening:

Hi, 1.3.2012 Statement: Has been a sad day, the phone didn't stop ringing, I am in the eye of the storm, please read my statement: "With good intentions we set out to do something to help people in need, as a consideration to safety of the people taking part in the Lug challenge I went and I marked the way, unfortunately I offended people in doing so, I am giving my sincere apologies to anybody who was, offended or injured by my action and I promise to return the mountain to its original condition after everybody has returned safely back from the Lug Challenge".

http://www.wicklowwalkingtours.com/fundraiser-for-st-vincent-de-paul.php

He just doesn't get it does he? It's not about who he offended, it's about what he did to the mountain.

I for one will be out checking that every bit of orange paint has been removed!:mad:

sparrowcar · 02-03-2012 6:56am

I hate this "I can do anything I want because it's for charity" attitude.
The only person who thinks its ok to deface a mountain is someone who has zero knowledge of leave no trace and is probably a "blow in" to mountain walking.

People who are relying on markers to get up and down Lug safely shouldn't be on it in the first place.

This guy needs to sat down and explained a few things :mad:

BarryD · 02-03-2012 10:38am

Really is a very thoughtless act of vandalism, especially as it seems to come from someone calling themselves 'Walking Tour' operators. Who in their right mind, would go walking with a guide, whose company like to use spray paint to mark routes on the hills?..

[Deleted User] · 02-03-2012 2:55pm

On the other hand, he did something stupid, he has apologised sincerely (ish, he also gave the whole "but if was for charidee" defence) and rightly so, he has promised to rectify it...not sure there's much else he can do.

Bet he won't do it again!

Sev · 02-03-2012 3:36pm

BarryD wrote: »

Who in their right mind, would go walking with a guide, whose company like to use spray paint to mark routes on the hills?..

I was hiking and climbing in the Swiss Alps over the summer, and they had red and white spray paint on rocks EVERYWHERE. They were to mark the way over passes and to nearby huts when the trail is hard to follow and over rough ground. They're typically about 100m apart so that when you reach one, you can usually see the next. I'm not sure who puts them there, probably the mountain hut staff.

Spray painting rocks seems to be a perfectly commonplace practice in the Swiss alps.

sparrowcar · 02-03-2012 3:54pm

Sev wrote: »

I was hiking and climbing in the Swiss Alps over the summer, and they had red and white spray paint on rocks EVERYWHERE. They were to mark the way over passes and to nearby huts when the trail is hard to follow and over rough ground. They're typically about 100m apart so that when you reach one, you can usually see the next. I'm not sure who puts them there, probably the mountain hut staff.

Spray painting rocks seems to be a perfectly commonplace practice in the Swiss alps.

Agreed if done by a professional body, not by anyone who feels like it.

BarryD · 02-03-2012 4:47pm

There's a substantial difference between the terrain in the Swiss Alps (and many other continental mountain areas) and Irish hills and also in the ethos of the respective hillwalking/ mountaineering communities. Where we mostly have bog & heather, particularly in Wicklow - they have rock. Routefinding can be tricky in places and to assist on popular walks and up to mountain huts, they often mark trails. Our hills have different challenges but routefinding largely needs map reading skills and common sense - not paint markings.

When in Rome, do what the Romans do etc.

Alun · 02-03-2012 7:19pm

Just to let you all know that I have just been informed that tomorrow's Lug Challenge has been cancelled. The organizers will also have to clean up all the mess.

There should be a formal statement on Mountaineering Ireland's website shortly.

duckysauce · 02-03-2012 8:32pm

quadsofflug wrote: »

This guy's unbelievable!

From Mountaineering Irelands facebook page thursday morning

http://www.facebook.com/mountaineeringireland

Then from his own website thursday evening:

http://www.wicklowwalkingtours.com/fundraiser-for-st-vincent-de-paul.php

He just doesn't get it does he? It's not about who he offended, it's about what he did to the mountain.

I for one will be out checking that every bit of orange paint has been removed!:mad:

he will be up lug tomorrow removing the paint according to his post on facebook, wonder how he is going to get the paint off.

It was cancelled because they had no insurance , somebody put no thought into this event , is he a politican or a banker as well ???

Alun · 02-03-2012 8:46pm

It should also be pointed out that all organized events in the WMNP that involve more than 50 people have to get a permit from NPWS, and it transpires he didn't get one of those either. Whether getting a permit requires having public liability insurance I don't know.

I too am intrigued as to how he's going to remove the paint without making a complete mess or damaging the environment any further.

Gillo · 02-03-2012 9:13pm

The only thing I can think of is using a wire brush. That'll remove lichen and dirt off the rock, bet better than using chemical agents on the rock.

How can he not have insurance?
He runs guided walking tours? Sounds like a cowboy to be honest.

BarryD · 02-03-2012 9:15pm

On the basis that it only takes seconds to spray a rock with orange paint but a hell of a lot longer to remove it - he could be up there for weeks..

There are worse places to spend weeks cleaning though, is has to be said!!

Alun · 02-03-2012 9:27pm

The statement on MI's website appears to have been delayed a bit, but be assured that a time limit has been set for the removal (much less than a couple of weeks!) and also the method of removal has to both environmentally friendly and be agreed in advance with the NPWS. In short then, an awful lot of scrubbing.

Alun · 02-03-2012 10:53pm

Here you go ...

http://www.mountaineering.ie/news/viewdetails.asp?ID=667

sparrowcar · 02-03-2012 10:58pm

So the guy has been given until Wednesday to clean them off.

Good result all round. Hopefully this sends a message out to any other numpties thinking of defacing mountain paths.

duckysauce · 03-03-2012 1:54am

Alun wrote: »

I think I found it with a bit of Googling!!! Look here, right at the bottom of the page ...

http://www.wicklowwalkingtours.com/fundraiser-for-st-vincent-de-paul.php

So, what next? I'm not sure whether all of that area is within the confines of the WMNP, so there's maybe not much point contacting them.

EDIT: I've written to them anyway, and I suggest others do too. I'll see if there's a suitable contact within Mountaineering Ireland too.

Well done on kicking this off Alun

. Google is scary.

Orange markers in Glenmalure and on Lug

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