Spaying a female dog.

lrushe · 10-07-2010 6:07pm

shinikins wrote: »

I've never given my personal opinion on early neutering, so without knowing my opinion on the matter i can hardly be called closed minded. I was try to point out to you how flawed it was to base your opinion on a report of dubious origin(by the way, Sanborn does indeed list references, some of which date to 1968-hardly current). "Science is not static, ideas are contantly evolving" Your words. You'll find that any scientific fact(whether it changes in the future or not)has been published in medical journals, and peer reviewed to become fact. Sanborns hasn't. I've stated quite clearly from the start that your vet is the expert, as they have studied for their masters degree, and keep honing their skills, and reading newly published medical journals, so they are the people most qualified to make a medical opinion. I don't think that makes me closed minded to progress.

Firstly as mentioned my opinion is not based on just one report (I've mentioned a few, just seems like you're stuck on just the one though) and even though that one does contain some older references (most are within the last 10 - 15 years) they are still more up to date than the link you posted. I'm also curious how you know Sanborns report hasn't been peer reviewed?? Have you read all the veterinary journals??
Secondly as mentioned also there has been so many times scientific fact has been disproved despite opposition.
Thirdly as mention (and I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this stage) my opinion is supported by my vet it's not just an idea I've pulled out of the sky.

shinikins · 10-07-2010 6:35pm

lrushe wrote: »

Firstly as mentioned my opinion is not based on just one report (I've mentioned a few, just seems like you're stuck on just the one though) and even though that one does contain some older references (most are within the last 10 - 15 years) they are still more up to date than the link you posted. I'm also curious how you know Sanborns report hasn't been peer reviewed?? Have you read all the veterinary journals??
Secondly as mentioned also there has been so many times scientific fact has been disproved despite opposition.
Thirdly as mention (and I feel like I'm just repeating myself at this stage) my opinion is supported by my vet it's not just an idea I've pulled out of the sky.

As a qualified Veterinary Nurse, yes, I have read all the veterinary journals, its part of my job to do so. The reason I keep referencing the one study is that you quoted it as fact, when clearly it is not, nor has it been peer reviewed. You were asked by Miss Lockheart and i quote "Just as on the human medical forums on this board, I really think people should not be allowed to post supposed facts here without supporting it with links to reputable scientific literature." Sanborns is not. Thats is why i'm "stuck on just the one".
As for your opinion being supported by your vet, you only stated that you had spoken to your vet in one of your more recent posts. Throughout your previous posts you based your opinion on studies found on the internet. I'm glad to see that you finally spoke to your vet, as all along you were giving the impression that it was your opinion, and that you had formed this opinion after reading reports, and using your 25 years experience as a dog owner.

EGAR · 10-07-2010 9:30pm

Having had nearly 1000 dogs spayed and neutered I feel I have the experience to have an opinion on the matter without having links to scientific research plastered all over my post

.

If I remember correctly paediatric spay and neuter stems from the US and was brought in under the impression that if an animal is done that young it would retain puppyish behaviour longer and was less likely to be swapped for a younger model at a later stage.

I am anti paediatric spay and neuter, the animal has no time to develop mentally as well as physically and IMHO there are links between anti social behaviour and early neuter. The amount of dogs with behavioural problems is growing steadily.

I am pro neuter obviously but not at any cost. I neuter according to the breed/type of the dog. Small breeds develop faster and can be done earlier. With large and giant breeds I wait.

Early spay and neuter can enhance growth and can cause serious problems at a later stage, especially in joints.

Cherry Blossom · 10-07-2010 10:22pm

EGAR wrote: »

If I remember correctly paediatric spay and neuter stems from the US and I am pro neuter obviously but not at any cost. I neuter according to the breed/type of the dog. Small breeds develop faster and can be done earlier. With large and giant breeds I wait.

Early spay and neuter can enhance growth and can cause serious problems at a later stage, especially in joints.

So in your opinion is 10 months an appropriate age for a Westie? I was considering 10 months or after her first heat, whichever is later.

<Edit> Puppies are great fun, certainly wouldn't want one for 11 to 16 years though :P

EGAR · 10-07-2010 11:10pm

Yes, in my opinion

ten months is a good age for a Westie to be spayed.

lrushe · 11-07-2010 11:38am

shinikins wrote: »

As a qualified Veterinary Nurse, yes, I have read all the veterinary journals, its part of my job to do so. The reason I keep referencing the one study is that you quoted it as fact, when clearly it is not, nor has it been peer reviewed. You were asked by Miss Lockheart and i quote "Just as on the human medical forums on this board, I really think people should not be allowed to post supposed facts here without supporting it with links to reputable scientific literature." Sanborns is not. Thats is why i'm "stuck on just the one".
As for your opinion being supported by your vet, you only stated that you had spoken to your vet in one of your more recent posts. Throughout your previous posts you based your opinion on studies found on the internet. I'm glad to see that you finally spoke to your vet, as all along you were giving the impression that it was your opinion, and that you had formed this opinion after reading reports, and using your 25 years experience as a dog owner.

I v.much doubt even a praticing vet has read every veterinary journal written in the last ten years so I don't except that you can say that it is not peer reviewed, the v.fact that the only study you quoted had 50 year old information shows that.
I only quoted one study because I was only asked for one I didn't want my post saturated in studies, I know where I got my opinion from but after further grilling I have mentioned much more than one study which you obviously haven't even look at.
I only mentioned my vet (who I hadn't finally spoke to, I'd spoken to all along) when asked, up until then all yourself and another poster wanted me to do was quote studies.

shinikins · 11-07-2010 8:51pm

lrushe wrote: »

I v.much doubt even a praticing vet has read every veterinary journal written in the last ten years so I don't except that you can say that it is not peer reviewed, the v.fact that the only study you quoted had 50 year old information shows that.
I only quoted one study because I was only asked for one I didn't want my post saturated in studies, I know where I got my opinion from but after further grilling I have mentioned much more than one study which you obviously haven't even look at.
I only mentioned my vet (who I hadn't finally spoke to, I'd spoken to all along) when asked, up until then all yourself and another poster wanted me to do was quote studies.

If you doubt that every practising vet has read recent journals written over the last 10 years, then maybe you should consider studying Veterinary Sciences, your opinion would soon change.
I actually linked 2 studies, not 1, and the one that you are referring to does contain stats that are 50 years old, but at the risk of repeating myself again the study itself was not based on those facts. I never asked you to post any links, you must have me confused with someone else.

Steve30x · 12-07-2010 10:52am

Im making an appointment with my vet today to have my 10 and a half month old Cavalier King Charles spayed. Im going to wait to have her done next week because she just coming out of heat now. Shes been in heat fro three weeks today.

One thing I need to know though. Ive asked my vet about this but I couldnt get a straight answer. Does she need her shots before getting spayed?

PS. I am having her done this early because she has ben stuck inside for the past three weeks because I dont have a car so I cant bring her walking. Also she has been locked in the kitchen so she doesnt get blood all round the house , but she can see me because the kitchen door is open with a gate to stop her getting into the sitting room so that she can see me and so she isnt lonely.

ISDW · 12-07-2010 11:05am

Steve30x wrote: »

Im making an appointment with my vet today to have my 10 and a half month old Cavalier King Charles spayed. Im going to wait to have her done next week because she just coming out of heat now. Shes been in heat fro three weeks today.

One thing I need to know though. Ive asked my vet about this but I couldnt get a straight answer. Does she need her shots before getting spayed?

PS. I am having her done this early because she has ben stuck inside for the past three weeks because I dont have a car so I cant bring her walking. Also she has been locked in the kitchen so she doesnt get blood all round the house , but she can see me because the kitchen door is open with a gate to stop her getting into the sitting room so that she can see me and so she isnt lonely.

Have you checked with your vet that they will spay her so soon after her season? Any vet I've ever dealt with needs to wait a few weeks, to let everything settle down again before the operation.

Regarding her vaccinations, if she's 10 and a half months, was she not vaccinated as a pup? If so, she won't be due her booster for a few months yet. If she wasn't vaccinated as a pup, again, the vet won't want to vaccinate and operate at the same time, the anaesthetic etc in the system could negate the effects of the vaccination.

Steve30x · 12-07-2010 11:27am

Ive questioned the Vet as to when she needs to get spayed and if she needs her shots first but the person I talked to wasnt clear on anything. I have no problem waiting a few weeks to get her spayed , but I need to make the appointment ASAP because I am getting her done under dogs trust. I will talk to someone else at the vets again today about it. Also she hasnt had her shots yet.

No she hasnt got her shots yet. Theres a vets in youghal that will do her shots for me for 25 euro which is much cheaper than here in town. I will have to get my brother to bring me there next week to get her shots done. I cant go this week because my brother is gone away for a holiday.

{edit} Ive talked to my local vet and he told me that I need to hold off for two to three weeks before I get bonny spayed , but I am on a waiting list for dogs trust to get her spayed which will be about three weeks anyway.

Spaying a female dog.

Comments