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Eircode Anomolies

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    Impetus wrote: »
    It was not "scrubbed" physically in my case. Deleted electronically. Three different countries of origin.

    All my ones had the eircode on it, exactly how I entered it on amazon


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Impetus wrote: »
    The CRO has added the Eircode to each company "registered office" address.

    However, they have made a typical Oirish dog's dinner of the job.

    For each entry they put the code on the last line of the address. It begins with a comma, and they have mashed together both parts of the code.


    Example

    DUBLIN 2
    ,D02ABCD

    instead of

    D02 ABCD DUBLIN

    There is no need for the comma, which misaligns the postcode, and there is no need to repeat the district number after the town/city name.

    You can search any company at https://search.cro.ie/company and the entire mess has been consistently applied to the entire database.


    Why on earth would you find that so upsetting ?

    The ones with no Eircode have commas in them :

    Type Business name - Body Corporate
    Number 140096
    Name IRISH FERRIES
    Address ALEXANDRA ROAD
    FERRYPORT
    DUBLIN 1
    ,
    ,


    maybe they'll fix them up when they are finished doing them all


  • Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    Impetus wrote: »
    The CRO has added the Eircode to each company "registered office" address.

    However, they have made a typical Oirish dog's dinner of the job.

    For each entry they put the code on the last line of the address. It begins with a comma, and they have mashed together both parts of the code.


    Example

    DUBLIN 2
    ,D02ABCD

    instead of

    D02 ABCD DUBLIN

    There is no need for the comma, which misaligns the postcode, and there is no need to repeat the district number after the town/city name.

    You can search any company at https://search.cro.ie/company and the entire mess has been consistently applied to the entire database.

    Actually An Post wish you to put the eircode after Dublin 2 and they're insisting that you still put Dublin 2, D02 XXXX etc. Silly I know.

    I don't think leaving out the space in the eircode is too much of an issue although the comma is annoying and will presumably be fixed at a later point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    Putting my cynic's hat on for a moment, the implementation of Eircode is an absolute winner for "state services".

    Imagine the implications of having to have Eircode on driving licences, vehicle registration details, social welfare records, revenue information, and property insurance policies.

    No more "I didn't get the summons" claims in courts.
    No more "It went to the wrong address" claims for things like NCT, parking fines, and related issues.
    No more subtle variations of addresses to confuse single parent claims.
    Absolute certainty about how many people in a specific location are claiming benefits.
    Absolute certainty about the location of properties that are receiving rent allowances, and who is benefiting from those allowances as both tenant and landlord.
    Absolute certainty about where to send the Irish Water bills.
    No more potential for multiple insurance claims for the same event under multiple policies
    Absolute certainty about Local property tax liabilities and responsibilities.

    I'm sure there will be plenty more similar advantages of the Eircode system once the departments look more closely at it, perhaps structuring it in the way they did wasn't so strange after all.

    I could also come up with some very useful benefits in respect of things like TD's travel expenses, if they have to record the Eircode of every place they claim travel expenses to/from, that could make for interesting reading.

    Looks like most of the "advantages" of Eircode are win win for state services.

    Isn't it great that the state now has an excellent method of protecting your money?

    I say your money because you pay taxes which fund these services and welfare payments, or you pay extra in insurance premiums because of fraudulent claims.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    Impetus wrote: »
    The CRO has added the Eircode to each company "registered office" address.

    However, they have made a typical Oirish dog's dinner of the job.

    For each entry they put the code on the last line of the address. It begins with a comma, and they have mashed together both parts of the code.


    Example

    DUBLIN 2
    ,D02ABCD

    instead of

    D02 ABCD DUBLIN

    There is no need for the comma, which misaligns the postcode, and there is no need to repeat the district number after the town/city name.

    Yes there is. Dublin addresses in the former Dublin 1 to Dublin 24 postal districts are still required to put the postal district number after Dublin, followed by the Eircode.

    For example:

    7 The Street
    Dublin 4
    D04 N157

    Dublin 1 is a post-town, Dublin 2 is a post-town, Dublin 3 is a post-town and so on all the way to Dublin 24.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 765 ✭✭✭spuddy


    Yes there is. Dublin addresses in the former Dublin 1 to Dublin 24 postal districts are still required to put the postal district number after Dublin, followed by the Eircode.

    For example:

    7 The Street
    Dublin 4
    D04 N157

    Dublin 1 is a post-town, Dublin 2 is a post-town, Dublin 3 is a post-town and so on all the way to Dublin 24.

    As every Dublin post-town has been built into Eircode, what really is the benefit in continuing the write it as part of the address?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 148 ✭✭clewbays


    spuddy wrote: »
    As every Dublin post-town has been built into Eircode, what really is the benefit in continuing the write it as part of the address?

    To get a higher success rate for automatic sorting by An Post


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    clewbays wrote: »
    To get a higher success rate for automatic sorting by An Post

    Helping your mail to be delivered more quickly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Why on earth would you find that so upsetting ?

    It just looks sloppy. A company was probably paid a big €€€ to add the postcode to this database, and they appear incapable of doing the job properly.

    When you live on the continent, all one's post is properly addressed, with the correct postcode in the correct place. Addresses used are consistent. Aside from items posted to you from Ireland (and GB) which invariably have the postcode in the wrong place, and the envelopes from these countries tend to be handwritten - computer printed envelopes can be read more easily by sorting scanners, and letters arrive faster, more consistently as a result.

    Not upset. It reflects the illiteracy and carelessness of those involved. It is no different to most business documentation issued in Ireland. The forms (invoices etc) are badly designed, often incomplete, and sloppy.

    It conveys a lack of professionalism in Irish culture.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    spuddy wrote: »
    As every Dublin post-town has been built into Eircode, what really is the benefit in continuing the write it as part of the address?

    None. It shows a lack of thought by those who do it. The eircode system contains the old district number and eircode. They also have the county name. There is no need for this when you use a postcode. Even if you don't use the county name and postcode, the envelope address will be recognised in the scanning process because the other elements of the address (street name, downland name, town, etc) will be looked up in a database of valid addresses.

    This is where the British system differs. Mail in GB is sorted on the postcode. If that us wrong or the postcode is misinformed, it will send the mail to the wrong address or sorting centre, and will have to be re-routed, or require human intervention in fixing the issue. This leads to delays. Mail in the rest of Europe and most other advanced countries is database matched to valid addresses using the entire address.

    That is why you don't need a complicated postcode. It is of no benefit in computer based systems, which can perform a database lookup All you need is a short postcode to help minimise data entry and hone in on the street or downland and auto fill the rest of the address. The same system can attach a standard delivery point serial number to each address entered. This is not required for postal sorting - but some organisations can use it for internal administration purposes.

    All they would need to do is convert the 'routing key' to a logical 4 digit number. By logical I mean that districts near each other would have the same leading digits. This would make it more human friendly. At the moment you have D and A in Dublin and P and T in Cork. Meanwhile C is in Navan. Utterly stupid. No wonder less than 2% of items have a code


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    The Irish Times has an article on the Eircode.

    'Neil McDonnell, general manager of the Freight Transport Association of Ireland, whose members include the global delivery firms DHL and FedEx, says that as far as he knows, none of the association’s members is using the code. “The nature of a postcode as a random code is the significant problem. It is essentially a social security number for a property,” says McDonnell. “The code itself is a meaningless construct.”

    Describing it as “worthless”, Irish Road Haulage Association’s president Verona Murphy says it was designed “as a system that only An Post could use” and it is “useless” for anyone else. “There was no input from those whom it’s supposed to service.”'

    I think he means a PPSN for every property. Ireland does not have 'social security numbers'

    More: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/six-months-on-people-still-confounded-by-eircode-system-1.2476492


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Impetus wrote: »
    The Irish Times has an article on the Eircode.

    'Neil McDonnell, general manager of the Freight Transport Association of Ireland, whose members include the global delivery firms DHL and FedEx, says that as far as he knows, none of the association’s members is using the code. “The nature of a postcode as a random code is the significant problem. It is essentially a social security number for a property,” says McDonnell. “The code itself is a meaningless construct.”

    Describing it as “worthless”, Irish Road Haulage Association’s president Verona Murphy says it was designed “as a system that only An Post could use” and it is “useless” for anyone else. “There was no input from those whom it’s supposed to service.”'

    I think he means a PPSN for every property. Ireland does not have 'social security numbers'

    More: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/six-months-on-people-still-confounded-by-eircode-system-1.2476492

    But what do those a guys know about knocking on doors making deliveries. All the global delivery firms are concerned with is getting the goods to the relevant drivers but I'm quite sure the drivers are making use of the Eircode when they need to.

    An Post don't use Eircode my postman does, DHL and FedEx don't use Eircode but I bet their drivers aren't as stupid as their bosses and use it when they need to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭marklazarcovic


    spuddy wrote:
    As every Dublin post-town has been built into Eircode, what really is the benefit in continuing the write it as part of the address?

    clewbays wrote:
    To get a higher success rate for automatic sorting by An Post

    Helping your mail to be delivered more quickly.


    The an post sorting machines don't use postcode,and can't.. an post tendered for the contract for the postcodes as it already has every address in its system,but the contract went somewhere else,all an post git to do was post the post code letters to the address associated with it,that's as far as an posts involvement goes,it can check for a postcode if a letter only has that,but it s a manual check ,postmen or women have no way of locating a address using a postcode alone,the benches they work on have the normal addresses only.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    The an post sorting machines don't use postcode,and can't.. an post tendered for the contract for the postcodes as it already has every address in its system,but the contract went somewhere else,all an post git to do was post the post code letters to the address associated with it,that's as far as an posts involvement goes,it can check for a postcode if a letter only has that,but it s a manual check ,postmen or women have no way of locating a address using a postcode alone,the benches they work on have the normal addresses only.

    Just like all the courier companies all the sorting system does is get the mail to the right postman and you don't need a postcode of any kind to do that. Although not using a postcode is the reason some of us have twisted addresses that follow the postal routes and not local boundaries.

    Parcel delivery drivers have far bigger rounds than the postman does and individuals cover far bigger areas so the postcode is of little interest to either An Post or Parcel Delivery bosses. Why would the bosses fix a problem they can leave the customer facing guy to sort out for free for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    In any other country that uses postcodes, there is no mention of canton, county, province names.

    Shannon Airport - an address - per the Eircode directory:

    AER RIANTA INTERNATIONAL
    TERMINAL BUILDING
    SHANNON AIRPORT
    SHANNON
    LIMERICK
    V14 R654

    In a country that wasn't a dumb as Ireland (or as wet, in more ways than one) they would use something like this:

    AER RIANTA INTERNATIONAL
    5 TERMINAL BUILDING ROAD
    SHANNON AIRPORT
    V14 R654 SHANNON


    Benefits:

    1. It is functional - visitors enter the terminal building via door marked 5 - and none other, to visit this organisation. As a result they don't have to waste time inside a terminal building to find an invidual office.

    2. It is geographically accurate - with no reference to "Co Limerick" - less friction etc.

    3. The "postcode" can be more easily read and verified to the town name by appearing at the bottom left of the address - followed by the town name to assist in adding redundancy to the address and greatly reducing the chance of a misread of a malformed character. It clarifies the position of the name of the town in a hiarchical address structure to humans and machines.

    4. It makes it easier to direct traffic and pedestrians by creating road names and building access numbers.

    The eircode has been 40€ mil million wasted, of public money, by an unwillingness/inability to do the job properly.

    The code would be far easier for humans and machines if it was all numeric. There is no value in the R654 bit for most users - a random farse.

    V could be converted into 61 - making the routing code V14 = 6114. The rest of the code could be sold to entities that require a higher resolution of building id in a short meaningless code. In the same way as T could be converted into 20, P into 22, D into 10, A into 12 etc, retaining the two routing code digits. You would make up with 4 digit numeric postcodes that would make sence to human beings, and hidden 4 character random codes that would be a joy for nerdy bureaucrats - who could derive them using the same address cleaning technology as those government agencies who have adopted the eircode have already used.

    Numerification would leave you with all codes beginning with 2 in the same region and every town would have a similar code, making it user-friendly. Dublin postcodes would be 10 + district number or 12 + the last two numbers in the routing code in the case of A codes.

    Capita and the ejit minister who decided on randomisation of the postcode should be sent to postcode school for a three year term. Houses in urban areas have traditionally had serial (or odd/even) numbering. The idea that number 2 was next to number 3 or 4 did not worry anybody from a privacy point of view. What difference for the eircode?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    Yes there is. Dublin addresses in the former Dublin 1 to Dublin 24 postal districts are still required to put the postal district number after Dublin, followed by the Eircode.

    For example:

    7 The Street
    Dublin 4
    D04 N157

    Dublin 1 is a post-town, Dublin 2 is a post-town, Dublin 3 is a post-town and so on all the way to Dublin 24.

    Rubbish!

    Dublin 2 is not a "post town". It is a postal zone or district. The "D04" or "DO2" part of the eircode can be read by sorting systems and human beings. The "post town" to use your antiquated British Post Office terminology is a named town - which is capable of being split up into zones, if it is large.

    <snip> Mod: Don't attack the poster!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    clewbays wrote: »
    To get a higher success rate for automatic sorting by An Post

    It does nothing to increase the probability of accurate machine sorting. The drivers of which include clarity of address label printing, non-use of proportionally spaced characters, non-use of handwriting on envelopes etc, non-use of coloured envelopes, and preferably the use of OCR characters, and global adoption of standard address formats.

    Before a country starts to use a unified standard address format it has to create one with is precise and lacks friction with local cultural values.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    I think there needs to be some intervention so that the address is limited to 4 lines + Country. Lets face it thats the limit of many online suppliers so addresses that run to 5 or more lines without the postcode should be changed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Impetus wrote: »
    ............
    Capita and the ejit minister who decided on randomisation of the postcode should be sent to postcode school for a three year term. Houses in urban areas have traditionally had serial (or odd/even) numbering. The idea that number 2 was next to number 3 or 4 did not worry anybody from a privacy point of view. What difference for the eircode?

    "Houses in urban areas have traditionally had serial (or odd/even) numbering. "

    It's an Eircode, they are not re-numbering houses

    Sequential codes wouldn't work well - something gets built/altered and the sequence will be all over the place

    Impetus wrote: »
    2. It is geographically accurate - with no reference to "Co Limerick" - less friction etc.

    That Shannon-in-Limerick thing and many more are the geodatabase yoke that An Post use

    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    my3cents wrote: »
    I think there needs to be some intervention so that the address is limited to 4 lines + Country. Lets face it thats the limit of many online suppliers so addresses that run to 5 or more lines without the postcode should be changed.

    why such a long address. When calling someone on the phone you don't have to "dial" a county code, a town code, a street, a house number and similar.

    Long addresses are inefficient, living in the dark ages, and are dysfunctional from a point of view of finding a place.

    Most of the postal addressing structure in Ireland has been devised over the past 50 years or so by property developers and builders. This is hardly the brightest way to create an functionally efficient addressing system.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    gctest50 wrote: »
    It's an Eircode, they are not re-numbering houses

    Sequential codes wouldn't work well - something gets built/altered and the sequence will be all over the place

    .

    Since the computer was invented there was a phrase "computerising chaos". It leads to ultra chaos.

    It a reflection of the lack of thought, a corrupt government and public service. A third world environment, pretending to be in the first world.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Impetus wrote: »
    why such a long address. When calling someone on the phone you don't have to "dial" a county code, a town code, a street, a house number and similar.

    Long addresses are inefficient, living in the dark ages, and are dysfunctional from a point of view of finding a place.

    Most of the postal addressing structure in Ireland has been devised over the past 50 years or so by property developers and builders. This is hardly the brightest way to create an functionally efficient addressing system.

    You example address for Shannon Airport is 5 lines plus eircode.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    my3cents wrote: »
    You example address for Shannon Airport is 5 lines plus eircode.

    No it is not. It is 4 lines.

    AER RIANTA INTERNATIONAL
    5 TERMINAL BUILDING ROAD
    SHANNON AIRPORT
    V14 R654 SHANNON

    This defines not only the airport, but an organisation office location within the airport.

    In international mailings you can write

    AER RIANTA INTERNATIONAL
    5 TERMINAL BUILDING ROAD
    SHANNON AIRPORT
    IRL - V14 R654 SHANNON

    The British don't like this - but there are no postcodes in GB beginning with IRL to mislead their 4 decades old postal sorting system. Every other sorting system in Europe could use it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    And of course one can delete the phrase Shannon Airport

    leaving

    AER RIANTA INTERNATIONAL
    5 TERMINAL BUILDING RD
    V14 R654 SHANNON


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Impetus wrote: »
    .........

    The British don't like this ....

    Getting your Alans in a twist there mate

    .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Proof ? did you ask them ?

    They tried to stop the prefixing of country codes to European postcodes and force letter writers to put the state name. They tried to force it it through the UPU etc. Sweden, Monaco, Switzerland and many other countries gave the British via UPU dictate the two fingers.

    They had a problem (given their 40 to 50 year old postcode / sorting system) with B-1000 being for a Belgian address because B was assigned to Bermingham by them. Items with B prefixes ended up in Birmingham. Ditto for Spanish eg E-28012 going to the sorting office in East London. A state of the art sorting machine looks at the entire address and can easily decipher wither the item is for Brussels or Birmingham.

    Tail wagging the dog. Same as the British Eircode contractor devising a so called "postcode" system for Ireland. They had to use alpha codes that did not conflict with British town names, leaving Cork with T and P and parts of Dublin with A and Navan with C etc.

    The Brits like being different and not adopting standards. It seems to me that the Oirish are following the same trail as ejits.

    Yet another form of Anglo-Saxon stupid terrorism / global domination being given in to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Impetus wrote: »
    .........
    Yet another form of Anglo-Saxon stupid terrorism / global domination being given in to.

    They were damn good at it though - look - even that post is in "their" language :)

    pwned by the UK


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    gctest50 wrote: »
    They were damn good at it though - look - even that post is in "their" language :)

    pwned by the UK

    "post" is actually derived from the French word Poste (ie La Poste) and Italian Posto.

    So like most other English language words it is a melange of badly pronounced, spelt, English, Latin, German, and Nordic language words.

    And the British postal service is now one of the slowest to deliver and most expensive in Europe/the World.

    Thanks to decades of under-investment in sorting technology and a poorly designed postcode "system". And a failure to rationalize postal addresses.

    "damn good"???


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,606 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Oh sorry - I meant your "post" ( on the boards.ie messageboard) was in English


    hence - damn good at the pwnage - "sun never set on the UK flag " and all that


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Oh sorry - I meant your "post" ( on the boards.ie messageboard) was in English


    No difference. The same thing applies. I will spare you from going through each word in my posting and delve into its linguistic origins....


This discussion has been closed.
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