Blood bikes

The biggest threat to bloodbikes is the behaviour that's being discussed here.

If you don't behave this way then it won't be discussed.

lighterman wrote: »

Course I've heard of a scanner. Have you ever heard of tetra. Apart from DFB i believe all of the East coast ambulance wise are on tetra so unless he was spending his days driving around dublin a scanner would be no use to him.

I'm asking about the qualifications of the member of bbe that has the ambulance.

I remember not so long ago there was individual in limerick that always had his scanner and first aid kit in the evenings and weekends and was always first to a call.....

No they're not. But it's illegal to listen to frequencies like Gardai etc. An example of an Irish company selling them…..

http://www.cqcomms.com/products_scanners.htm

Schindlers Pissed wrote: »

No they're not. But it's illegal to listen to frequencies like Gardai etc. An example of an Irish company selling them…..

http://www.cqcomms.com/products_scanners.htm

I thought AGS use Tetra?

Reading through this thread, 2 issues arise for me.

1. What sort of insurance cover do the Bloodbikes have? This dictates the way that they maybe driven. Are they covered for bluelight driving? If they are on blue lights and have an accident such they operate outside of the rules ao the rule and collide with you is their insurance null and void.

2. An issue with voluntary groups is accountability. i Know from my own experience that if their is an issue at times it can be very difficult to deal with as there is no statutory regulation, there is no recognised notification system and as its voluntary people can run to the hills when the sh*t hits the fan

Scatter Cat wrote: »

They are accountable by law to follow the Road Traffic Act. And they as individuals are accountable for their actions and can be punished by law same as anyone.

As is everyone but do they have exemptions under the RTA. If they have to obey the law that is the RTA then why are the bikes marked so conspicuously or are they trying to appear to be something they are not.

As you say the individual can be punished but what about the voluntary organisation if that needs to be taken to task, who is accountable?

My original query really relates to all voluntary non statutory groups whose vehicles are equipped with Blue and/or twos where a member of said group gets a bit caught up in the moment and say for instance goes through a red light or drives on the wrong side of the road, does the organisation have insurance or other to cover this event or is it down to the individual, if it goes to court.
In the statutory bodies the body normally provides cover as they are permitted under the RTA to use the exemptions while using blues and twos although the individual drives on their own licence and faces the full rigours of the law for what could amount to dangerous driving.

Its the insurance side of things regarding voluntary groups I am asking about

So here's a question for Pataman:

Directly off Bloodbike east Facebook.

"Description
Blood Bike East are the ONLY group that deliver Blood, Blood Products, medical equipment, Breast Milk and any other medical items between hospitals, clinics and medical establishments in the Dublin and greater Leinster region.
We have agreements in place with most of the hospitals in Dublin and will be expanding shortly to the Leinster area"

How are you the ONLY group the area you have described when there is clearly another group operating in Leinster?

Why is it you constantly post about doing runs to and from Leinster/south leinster when it seams common knowledge that Bloodbike east only operate in Dublin?

It seems that Bloodbike east are constantly trying to antagonise the other group.

Disclaimer: No (really dumb) animals have been harmed during the production of this thread.

apc wrote: »

As is everyone but do they have exemptions under the RTA. If they have to obey the law that is the RTA then why are the bikes marked so conspicuously or are they trying to appear to be something they are not.

As you say the individual can be punished but what about the voluntary organisation if that needs to be taken to task, who is accountable?

My original query really relates to all voluntary non statutory groups whose vehicles are equipped with Blue and/or twos where a member of said group gets a bit caught up in the moment and say for instance goes through a red light or drives on the wrong side of the road, does the organisation have insurance or other to cover this event or is it down to the individual, if it goes to court.
In the statutory bodies the body normally provides cover as they are permitted under the RTA to use the exemptions while using blues and twos although the individual drives on their own licence and faces the full rigours of the law for what could amount to dangerous driving.

Its the insurance side of things regarding voluntary groups I am asking about

My understanding is as follows, please do not quote in a court of law

The vol organisations have their own insurance cover so if there was an incident this is what would be claimed under.

However, it is the individual driver that bears the responsibility to drive in accordance to the law. Section 87 of the Road Traffic Act provides exemptions to most of the act for Gardaí, and members of ambulance and fire services. It does not provide exemptions to the provisions regarding dangerous driving or driving under the influence.

So a member of a voluntary ambulance service while performing his duties would have those exemptions. If he caused an accident due to driving recklessly then he may be prosecuted, but it would be the orgs insurer who would pay out.

The pertinent question then is whether Blood Bikes counts as an ambulance service? I believe not as there are treated separately in the provisions regarding blue lights where there are distinct clauses for ambulance and organ transports.

So, in answer to your question, the vol ambulance services operate under the same framework as the statutory ones, it's the members licence, but the organisation's insurance.

One final practical consideration is that under the EMS response protocols, all situations that calls for a blue-light response (Bravo to Echo) also call for a paramedic, something which would not be normal for most vols to have onboard. Exceptions are made to this so if you see a vol ambo under blue lights, they have a paramedic on-board, or the HSE have asked them to transport immediately instead of waiting for one. Or they are acting the maggot :pac:

apc wrote: »

Thanks for your response
This is where I have a serious doubt and where I would query whether Voluntary Groups such as river rescue units, blood bikes search & rescue mountain rescue etc not just Vol Ambulance units can travel under blue lights.
As you say the person driving is the responsible person and the person who will be prosecuted if they act outside the law, but I cannot see the Voluntary group being able to get insurance that will cover such an incident as the insurance would be very specific as to what cover it offers and would not offer cover outside of the law.
So I wonder what responsibility is there on a Voluntary organisation to ensure its members drive within the law and where does the responsibility/accountability within the Voluntary Organisation lie.

I think Voluntary Organisations should refrain from fitting blues and twos as it can give its members the impression they are something they are not and they may assume they can drive in a manner they are not allowed to.
Better safe than sorry

I understand where you're coming from, whatever discretion might be used by the Gardaí, the insurance companies are another matter. I guess there's loosely three groups:

1) Groups allowed to use lights and sirens, and have exemptions under the RTA - Gardaí, Fire, and Ambulance personnel, both statutory and voluntary.

2) Groups allowed to use lights and sirens, but without exemptions - Blood Bikes, Coast Guard officers, Prison service, Military police

3) Groups that aren't allowed to use lights and sirens, and have no exemptions, but use them anyway - vol. rescue units

The blood bike people should be okay as far as insurance goes as they are allowed use blue lights and one would assume the insurer knows that. If they speed or go through a red light that still shouldn't invalidate their insurance, any more than it does when a normal member of the public speeds or breaks a light. The apportioning of blame and liability to prosecution is also the same as a "normal" member of the public.

I would be worried for the likes of the rescue units which aren't meant to have the lights in the first place, I can imagine that might invalidate their insurance, just like not having a valid licence can invalidate insurance. Maybe they count as a Fire Service?

Looks like we are on a merry go round again on this h**ps://w**.esforum.org/showthread.php?tid=6384&page=25