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Interview with Vinny Byrne of the IRA 'Squad'

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Comments

  • #32
    Paddy De Plasterer
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭Paddy De Plasterer


    Dades wrote: »
    Last chance to be constructive, Paddy.

    I have no issue banning you for trolling if I think that's what you're at here.

    Is "trolling" stating one's firm beliefs and not swimming with the tide ?


  • #33
    Paddy De Plasterer
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭Paddy De Plasterer


    charlemont wrote: »
    Some good history stuff here, That Vinny Brown was an awesome man, Im going to try find out more about him.

    i agree with you.


  • #34
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Just met a relative of Vinny Byrne's this week so did a bit more searching.

    This is very similar to the interview in question, although I do recall Byrne's interview being longer. This was made by Colm Connolly, apparently in 1989, which would be around the time the documentary I'm thinking of was made:



    (Starts at 3.25; Vinny starts talking at 3.31: "You two men have been sentenced to death and I'm coming here to carry out that sentence. May the Lord have mercy on your souls.")

    I think Judgement Day's "I plugged him" could be the interview. Anybody know what the documentary's name was in which Byrne said that?


  • #35
    MarchDub
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭MarchDub


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Just met a relative of Vinny Byrne's this week so did a bit more searching.

    This is very similar to the interview in question, although I do recall Byrne's interview being longer. This was made by Colm Connolly, apparently in 1989, which would be around the time the documentary I'm thinking of was made:



    (Starts at 3.25; Vinny starts talking at 3.31: "You two men have been sentenced to death and I'm coming here to carry out that sentence. May the Lord have mercy on your souls.")

    I think Judgement Day's "I plugged him" could be the interview. Anybody know what the documentary's name was in which Byrne said that?

    Yes - it's the documentary that I mentioned in post #5 above -

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66857220&postcount=5

    If you look at the top of your video clip you can actually see the name 'The Shadow of Beal na Blath' which was the title of the Documentary. I have an old video copy of it and it was made by RTE in 1988 and Vinny Byrne is interviewed. It's an excellent doc but sadly not available on CD ASAIK.


  • #36
    Danno33
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭Danno33


    Would anyone be able to put me in touch with the family of Liam Daly brother of Sean Daly who was in the Cairo Gang. I am specifically looking for accounts of Liam Daly's actions during the Easter Rising and photographs of the man himself for a new book I am researching at present. Any help would be appreciated and acknowledged.


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  • #37
    kabakuyu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    franklyon wrote: »
    Excellent thread, apart from the last page obviously, The Cairo gang were all ex military with the exception of one man a RIC officer.
    None of them were civil servants 'just doing their job' types. Michael Collins, himself an ex civil servant would not have ordered their execution unless it was completely necessary, In one fell swoop he put out the eyes of the British empire.
    The comment about 'murderous thugs' I won't even justify with an answer.

    Recent research sheds new light on this event.

    http://www.cairogang.com/murdered-men/mccormack.html


  • #38
    Be like Nutella
    Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭Be like Nutella


    Cheers to all for all the info and links etc fascinating ... I knew my dads uncle Frank had been active in some way with Collins back then when he was just a boy really.. I never knew until now that he was part of the original Twelve Apostles .... I'm no Irish history expert but it seems from what I've read here that they were basically assassins, doing Collins bidding... Frank Bolster could have only been about bloody fifteen or something which is mad... He was my dads uncle... Me grandad Alex's brother... I remember as a kid I heard an auntie of mine recounting a story about Franks little sibling sister or brother I can't remember anyway they found Frank's gun in a wardrobe and was literally pulling back the hammer when Frank came home and freaked out and bate them round for it. That's my only memory of a conversation had about him apart from something about his drawings possibly in some jail somewhere and the possibility of him being in some old footage holding Collins coffin with others... could be at the end of the apparently not so factual Collins movie during the credits maybe. Anyway that's my two cents... So they killed fourteen lads on bloody Sunday which resulted in twelve dead in croker which seems to have precipitated the beginning of the end of that level of warfare or reasoning to that effect... That's what I got anyway... Very hard to call one side murderous or thugs etc at that stage ... Far too complex and political and all that.... Impossible to simplify... These guys as young as they may have been... Just boys in some cases... believed in what they were doing to the core... It's never great to premeditatively kill a man in cold blood which is absolutely what they did as the Brits had done to them 'in their own coin' but logic and rationality are the luxuries we have now in our lovely (be it feckin broke to fcuk) republic in which we reside while arguing fascinating history on boards.ie

    Wonder what else I can find bout Frank.


  • #39
    Albie
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Albie


    Greetings, Be LIke Nutella. Just came across your post re your great-uncle Frank Bolster. I am currently researching my antecedents in the Mallow area and wondered where his family came from. I can't find any Frank Bolsters in the 1901/11 census records. Would you be willing to pass on a little more info about him. What happened to him after the treaty? When did he pass on? Seems to have lived an interesting life and been involved in significant events during that period.


  • #40
    ParsleyQueen
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭ParsleyQueen


    This may be a separate thread, so I apologize if this isn't proper, but since the squad is being discussed....

    I've always been fascinated about the extreme motivation the members of the squad must have had do these face-to-face killings. My understanding is that they were all pretty much "regular guys".

    I know that Collins was a member of the IRB and took an oath to use whatever means possible to free Ireland from English occupation, which I'm assuming, he was acting upon. Were the members of the squad also IRB men, and would that have been their motivation as well to do such extreme things?


  • #41
    Santa Cruz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    ParsleyQueen wrote: »
    This may be a separate thread, so I apologize if this isn't proper, but since the squad is being discussed....

    I've always been fascinated about the extreme motivation the members of the squad must have had do these face-to-face killings. My understanding is that they were all pretty much "regular guys".

    I know that Collins was a member of the IRB and took an oath to use whatever means possible to free Ireland from English occupation, which I'm assuming, he was acting upon. Were the members of the squad also IRB men, and would that have been their motivation as well to do such extreme things?

    Several of the Squad gave statements to the Bureau of Military History, Vinny Byrne, Bernard Byrne, Charlie Dalton etc. Have a look through those for interest. I have no doubt that a lot of them were also IRB


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  • #42
    ciarriaithuaidh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,265 ✭✭✭ciarriaithuaidh


    Great thread apart from the odd idiotic comment.

    There IS a serious debate to be had around the morality/justification of actions undertaken in time of war, even in the midst of the struggle for independence, in this case our own.

    There are many popular and widely lauded (and derided by many also) "columnists" and "commentators" who would regularly denounce the likes of Dan Breen, Tom Barry and others for example. Now I'm no rabid republican, nor do I know what these people were like apart from what I have read about them..but surely it's a fact that without men like these we would not have got to a position where we could become independent?
    They killed people, yes..and there was undoubtedly some killings which were unjustified.
    What I can't understand though is that when Eoghan Harris or someone keeps banging on about the IRA in Cork killing protestants (which did happen and some of these fall into the category I mentioned above no doubt) for example and goes so far as to label people a murderer or terrorist..but fails to mention facts like, the British burning most of Cork City, murdering civilians in their homes (like the Lord Mayor of Irelands second largest city) and on roadsides, torturing and extra judicial execution of suspected or confirmed IRA men, burning homes/looting/destruction of property of real or suspected IRA men or sympathisers even...etc etc.

    To me, when I hear stories like Vinny Byrne's or Dave Neligan's for example, the main thing I think of is how unbelievably brave they were..and how grateful we should be to them for that bravery. I have many times tried to imagine what I would have done if I was living back in those times. Part of me would like to think I would have been able to be as active as those men I've mentioned above..but who knows, maybe I would have had a comfortable government job or other post and not wanted to jeapordise it or my families safety by getting involved in the independence struggle. Some people took this line no doubt, just as others in the same position made the opposite decision and risked everything for what they believed in and for their country and its future generations. Some had nothing to risk but their own lives and did so. Vinny Byrne was one of them, there were many others. Without them, we might all be posting on a sub-forum of boards.co.uk!


  • #43
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,981 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    One thing we tend to for get is the idealism and dreams that these men and women had when they took up arms... My granduncle was an ASU member and spend most of the war on the run. In old age it was his habit to sit outside his house in the village where he lived watching the world go by. On election day, if you passed by him, he was sure to enquire if you had voted yet and if you said no... you were sure to receive a lecture which always ended the same "I don't care how you vote, but vote! Men and women died to earn you that right"


  • #44
    karenconneely
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭karenconneely


    Hi heartofarebel
    heartofarebel wrote: »
    I hope this gives you some insight into Vinny and if you would like to know any thing else about him please feel free to ask.

    My father is currently researching the war of independence and is curious to know of the exact whereabouts of the arms dump that 'the squad' used (and that Vinny mentioned in a statement, held in the Bureau of Military History).
    The dump mentioned is on modern day Wolfe Tone St (I think it was Stafford St in those days) and fronting onto Abbey St. There are only a few buildings that fit this description, and my father is curious to know exactly which one it was.
    I would be very interested to hear from you, on behalf of my father (who in his late 60s - isnt the technologically savant type!)
    my email is karenconneely @ gmail.com should you wish to contact me in a private forum.


  • #45
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Chloekennedy14 wrote: »
    Hi, I'm thinking of doing my history research project for my leaving cert on Vincent Byrne!

    Chloe to be honest maybe you should consider choosing a more appropriate topic.


  • #46
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    I think he's one of the biggest hypocrites the IRA has ever had. Saying the PIRA had "ruined the name of the IRA, they should never have been allowed to call themselves that.

    This coming from a man who shot unarmed people without thinking twice about it. At least the likes of Brendan Hughes engaged the British Army (not policemen) in open gun battles. Did Vinny even fire a shot against an armed British soldier?

    I think both IRA's have a good case to make for engaging in armed struggle but the one of the 1969 - 1998 has a much better morale case to make for taking up arms against a state hostile to them and out to oppress them and thier people.


  • #47
    Tiger100
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Tiger100


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    I think he's one of the biggest hypocrites the IRA has ever had. Saying the PIRA had "ruined the name of the IRA, they should never have been allowed to call themselves that.

    This coming from a man who shot unarmed people without thinking twice about it. At least the likes of Brendan Hughes engaged the British Army (not policemen) in open gun battles. Did Vinny even fire a shot against an armed British soldier?

    I think both IRA's have a good case to make for engaging in armed struggle but the one of the 1969 - 1998 has a much better morale case to make for taking up arms against a state hostile to them and out to oppress them and thier people.

    Hi Balcombe, just to answer your question Vinnie took part in the Lord French Ambush at the Halfway House he engaged with British Forces there also the Custom House he fought against the auxies. He also was out in 1916 ( I don`t know if he seen action).Not getting into an arguement just answering your question.


  • #48
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Tiger100 wrote: »
    Hi Balcombe, just to answer your question Vinnie took part in the Lord French Ambush at the Halfway House he engaged with British Forces there also the Custom House he fought against the auxies. He also was out in 1916 ( I don`t know if he seen action).Not getting into an arguement just answering your question.

    Thanks for the reply.

    I think according to himself he didn't do a whole during the Rising.

    The burning of the Customs House even though they carried out their objective successfully was madness. How many people does it take to light a match? I can see why Collins got so pissed about this when Dev proposed it. 10 men would have been enough for the job never mind 100+


  • #49
    Tiger100
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Tiger100


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply.

    I think according to himself he didn't do a whole during the Rising.

    The burning of the Customs House even though they carried out their objective successfully was madness. How many people does it take to light a match? I can see why Collins got so pissed about this when Dev proposed it. 10 men would have been enough for the job never mind 100+


    He was only a kid during the Rising, so that explains that.

    The Custom House is a huge Building, I think the way it worked The ASU men where there to protect the men burning the building, the Squad held up the workers, visitors etc in the building, so there was about 50 to 60 2nd Battalion men burning it,Its a huge building so it needed at least that many to do it. They where never expecting the Auxies to turn up so early in the operation & with armoured cars ! I often wonder what difference a few snipers with 303`s could had made on roof tops to the operation & cutting down the amount of men captured.


  • #50
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Tiger100 wrote: »
    He was only a kid during the Rising, so that explains that.

    The Custom House is a huge Building, I think the way it worked The ASU men where there to protect the men burning the building, the Squad held up the workers, visitors etc in the building, so there was about 50 to 60 2nd Battalion men burning it,Its a huge building so it needed at least that many to do it. They where never expecting the Auxies to turn up so early in the operation & with armoured cars ! I often wonder what difference a few snipers with 303`s could had made on roof tops to the operation & cutting down the amount of men captured.

    But didn't they attack it during the day because Dev wanted a spectaculor show of force to reinforce the image of a Irish Army defending an Irish state to the public?

    Surely they could have used a lot less men at night when nobody was around.

    It was really a more dangerous propaganda stunt (granted it worked at a high cost) rather than a military operation. From what I'm aware no British force were killed during the exchange of gunfire the IRA was so badly armed.


  • #51
    Tiger100
    Registered Users Posts: 12 ✭Tiger100


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    But didn't they attack it during the day because Dev wanted a spectaculor show of force to reinforce the image of a Irish Army defending an Irish state to the public?

    Surely they could have used a lot less men at night when nobody was around.

    It was really a more dangerous propaganda stunt (granted it worked at a high cost) rather than a military operation.

    The Curfew killed the idea of attacking at night, It was done to burn the tax papers in particular the arrears papers ! It cost the British a fortune. From the Irish view it took out about 1/3 of the Squad & about 2/3 of the ASU.The rest of the men captured where part time IRA men, some had little or no experiance of warfare before the Custom House. It was not the disaster its made out to be.In fact by July the IRA in Dublin where not running out of men or guns but bullets !

    We have a small blog we are working on telling the stories of the men involved & some of the stranger parts of the burning !

    Sorry I should have said your correct, no British where killed, at least 3 where put out of action & sent home & a few more where injured. Hard to fight armoured cars with .45 & .38 small arms.


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  • #52
    Jesus.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,794 ✭✭✭Jesus.


    Tiger100 wrote: »
    It was not the disaster its made out to be.

    It was Tiger


  • #53
    heartofarebel
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭heartofarebel


    BalcombeSt4 wrote: »
    I think he's one of the biggest hypocrites the IRA has ever had. Saying the PIRA had "ruined the name of the IRA, they should never have been allowed to call themselves that.

    This coming from a man who shot unarmed people without thinking twice about it. At least the likes of Brendan Hughes engaged the British Army (not policemen) in open gun battles. Did Vinny even fire a shot against an armed British soldier?

    I think both IRA's have a good case to make for engaging in armed struggle but the one of the 1969 - 1998 has a much better morale case to make for taking up arms against a state hostile to them and out to oppress them and thier people.
    I wasn't going to answer this but I feel since BalcombeSt4 seems to be almost calling my great uncle some sort of coward, I feel I have too. Your right he told me many a time not to get involved with "that other crowd", as he called them, "they are not what we were", his words. Could you have the courage to walk up to a man, look him in the eyes and shoot him point blank? This would take the same if not more courage than it would to take someone on in open battle, certainly more than it would to make a phone call about a planted bomb that was left to kill and maim indiscriminately. Remember most of those he was involved in killing were either police or G-men who would have been armed and were some of the most dangerous agents that England had . I have spoken to a couple of former members of PIRA before and they had respect for what he did. How can you claim that the struggle from 69 to 98 was more moral than the War of independence was. It may have started morally but bit didn't end that way. Again your right, he didn't do much during the Rising, BEEN 15 AT THE TIME. No doubt you will answer me but this is the only time I will.


  • #54
    BalcombeSt4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    heartofarebel wrote: »
    I wasn't going to answer this but I feel since BalcombeSt4 seems to be almost calling my great uncle some sort of coward, I feel I have too. Your right he told me many a time not to get involved with "that other crowd", as he called them, "they are not what we were", his words. Could you have the courage to walk up to a man, look him in the eyes and shoot him point blank? This would take the same if not more courage than it would to take someone on in open battle, certainly more than it would to make a phone call about a planted bomb that was left to kill and maim indiscriminately. Remember most of those he was involved in killing were either police or G-men who would have been armed and were some of the most dangerous agents that England had . I have spoken to a couple of former members of PIRA before and they had respect for what he did. How can you claim that the struggle from 69 to 98 was more moral than the War of independence was. It may have started morally but bit didn't end that way. Again your right, he didn't do much during the Rising, BEEN 15 AT THE TIME. No doubt you will answer me but this is the only time I will.

    I don't think he was a coward at all, he was without a doubt one of the bravest soldiers Ireland has ever had.

    The problem I have with him is the way he's trying to pretend the IRA & PIRA were anything different. Lots of other IRA men including the likes of Tom Barry said they supported the PIRA trying to liberate the North, Bobby Sands even wrote a poem about Barry after Barry died in 1980.

    If you don't like Republican armed struggle fine! But don't act like the IRA & PIRA were doing anything different, they were both tyring to liberate Ireland with armed struggle. The only difference was technology. Of course the Old IRA would have used a 'stand off' weapon like a Mark 12 mortar or used IED's to blow up British Army & Police barracks or government buildings like say the Customs House, sure they killed 13 Black & Tans with a mine in May 1921.

    The people in 1969 were a minority in a state hostile towards them at every level. They were being burned out of their homes in the 1000's & being murdered by the police & loyalists, it was like a Yugoslavia. In 1971 6,000 refugees fled into the South during the mayhem of the introduction of internment, which left 24 people dead 17 of whom were Catholic civilians shot by the British Army including 11 of them during the Ballymurphy Massacre.
    The only had thing these people had to protect them was the PIRA.
    The UVF & UPV started the violence of the Troubles when they killed 3 Catholics & 1 Protestant civilian in 1966 & then carried out a number of bombings in 1969 & blamed them on the IRA to try & bring down the O'Neill government & some of these bombs were in the South & this was before the PIRA was even born.

    On the other hand we started the 1919 -1921 conflict starting with shooting 2 RIC officers unprovoked.


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