Ethical quandry over reporting 3rd party offences caught on dash cams

CreepingDeath · 21-01-2015 11:43pm

Jesus. wrote: »

Oh catch on to yourself lad. This is not the Third Reich we're talking about :rolleyes:

There's a huge grey area in between "The Third Reich" and a "Mad Max" style chaotic society where everyone does what they want and nobody cares. The road is not just for angry single boy racers, there's plenty of people driving their families around.

Jesus. wrote: »

Its about busy bodies with no life getting their kicks out of running to the authorities on their fellow citizens over nonsense. .

Who are these busy bodies?
Have you had any experience of them personally?

I've certainly had plenty of experience of bad/dangerous drivers.
But I've never been reported for any bad driving myself.

Just a wild stab in the dark here, but do you drive a high powered car?

biko · 22-01-2015 12:23am

Shiraz 4.99 wrote: »

Does anyone else see the grey shakey ground we are on when normal citizens become officers of the state by sharing bad behaviour.

No. Quite the opposite.
By taking the time to report a crime you are actually helping.

Leave it then to the DPP to decide if what is on the film is evidence enough to prosecute.

Jesus. · 22-01-2015 12:45am

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Just a wild stab in the dark here, but do you drive a high powered car?

1.6 Laguna :eek:

I'm a light foot type anyway. MPG attainment is my game. I managed to eek out 42 mixed (real not dash) during the Summer and I'm getting 36 at the moment. I only do 60mph on the Motorway (faster if required) but I know where you're coming from to be fair.

CiniO · 22-01-2015 1:01am

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I checked this out, in Germany you can have a dashcam, but the footage is completely useless as it cannot be admitted as evidence in court:
http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-problem-with-dashcam-videos-in-germany-1623794616
It's completely fcuked in the head stupid that you can have evidence and still end up guilty.
Actually, for the same reason google streetview is illegal in Germany.
The law should be "as long as you're outside the frontdoor, yo ass is on film, if you don't do anything dodgy, you have nothing to worry about"

Hmm prohibition of publicing dashcam recordings public (like on youtube) in Germany is understandable. (well at least I understand the grounds for it as it might infringe someone's privacy), but I completely can't understand the logic behind not allowing it as evidence in court. That's bit of a nonsense...

I read somewhere as well about Austria, that it's completely illegal to use or even have dashcam in the car (even in glovebox) but I'm not sure about validity of that info, as I couldn't really find trustworthy source as I don't speak German. If you see any info in relation to this, could you let us know

BTW - does that mean that if I publish some dashcam recording from Germany on youtube, I'm committing some kind of an offence?
If so - what consequences could I suffer considering I don't live there?

CreepingDeath · 22-01-2015 9:21am

CiniO wrote: »

Hmm prohibition of publicing dashcam recordings public (like on youtube) in Germany is understandable.

I just checked, you can use Google streetview in Germany.
I clicked on a random street in Munich and streetview is available.

So there's probably exceptions to the rule, or require you to pixelate faces and reg numbers.

The12thMan · 22-01-2015 9:59am

did you just make the news?

Crazy overtake in Ireland' video goes viral

http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/crazy-overtake-in-ireland-video-goes-viral-30925285.html

TheDoc · 22-01-2015 1:14pm

biko wrote: »

No. Quite the opposite.
By taking the time to report a crime you are actually helping.

Leave it then to the DPP to decide if what is on the film is evidence enough to prosecute.

Has there been confirmation relating to the potential data protection breaches and issues relating to dashcams?

don't use one myself and never had an issue on the receiving end. But there was an increasing trend of cyclists using helmetcams, and after seeing demafatory stuff on youtube from cyclists did a little brushing up.

Think you leave yourself open to defamation and data protection breaches using these if I'm honest. Has there been any comfirmation from the D>P commisioner on their use?

Alun · 22-01-2015 1:39pm

CreepingDeath wrote: »

I just checked, you can use Google streetview in Germany.
I clicked on a random street in Munich and streetview is available.

It's only available in a limited number of large cities. Zoom out of Google Maps until the whole of Germany is visible and then drag the little Streetview man over the map .. you'll see just a few blue areas over Munich, Frankfurt, Berlin Stuttgart etc. The rest of the country is not covered. Even within the areas that are covered a lot of houses are blanked out.

dr.fuzzenstein · 22-01-2015 8:10pm

TheDoc wrote: »

Has there been confirmation relating to the potential data protection breaches and issues relating to dashcams?

don't use one myself and never had an issue on the receiving end. But there was an increasing trend of cyclists using helmetcams, and after seeing demafatory stuff on youtube from cyclists did a little brushing up.

Think you leave yourself open to defamation and data protection breaches using these if I'm honest. Has there been any comfirmation from the D>P commisioner on their use?

Hard to see how dashcam footage can be defamatory, it should be quite the opposite.
Unless it maybe has been heavily edited to misrepresent what happened.
My theory is, courts and insurance companies like to quickly and easily apportion blame and move on. Motorists that now start to whine and complain and dispute facts with their "facts" and "evidence" are messing up the system, causing delays and costing money. Simply ignore the fact that dashcmas exist and go back to the old system of randomly blaming on party, move on and nevermind the whingers.

I foresee one more side effect: imagine you scratch your ear and a cop "decides" you where on the phone and will do you for it. We can't very well have people making fools out of our wonderful and efficient law enforcement, so if a cop says you did X,Y and Z, you did it.

Chris_Heilong · 22-01-2015 9:20pm

The overtaking video was not as bad as I was expecting, stupid to do when you can see cars are coming the other way but I just thought it would be worse(spoiled by all those Russian videos).

tu2j2 · 23-01-2015 6:19am

Jesus. wrote: »

One can only guess what your idea of "driving dangerously" is.

I shudder to think

And here in lies the problem, I would say the vast majority of people thing that anything they wouldn't do is dangerous.

I don't want the cops rocking up at my door cause I overtook somebody on my bike and they think I'm and idiot because I'm traveling faster than them.

For the life of me I wouldn't have one, God forbid your incriminating yourself if you ever make a mistake when your driving. I think it's bad that people feel the need to have these things, the standard of driving in this country is not as bad as is made out, ya it's **** but so is everywhere else at the end of the day.

dr.fuzzenstein · 23-01-2015 9:24am

tu2j2 wrote: »

And here in lies the problem, I would say the vast majority of people thing that anything they wouldn't do is dangerous.

I don't want the cops rocking up at my door cause I overtook somebody on my bike and they think I'm and idiot because I'm traveling faster than them.

For the life of me I wouldn't have one, God forbid your incriminating yourself if you ever make a mistake when your driving. I think it's bad that people feel the need to have these things, the standard of driving in this country is not as bad as is made out, ya it's **** but so is everywhere else at the end of the day.

Get a helmet cam!

nick240v · 26-04-2015 9:57pm

sorry for thread resurrection, but I think I need to post a few more times before uploading a vid to the dash cam forum as I'm a new registered member

It's a clip of an absolute knob with a kid in the back undertaking on the hard shoulder on the N7

In Uk there are links to send footage too - I'm no grass but this guy needs to be off the road - haven't found a link yet to the guards where I can report via dash cam - anyone know?

Happened yesterday on N7 near Naas
Cheers

ironclaw · 26-04-2015 10:40pm

@nick240v, Their Twitter account is fairly active. You can tweet a YouTube link to them. Alternatively, I'm fairly sure Traffic Corp have an email address. Of the two, I'd recommend the Twitter route. Without being funny, I'd actually say they review the stuff here or at the very least some active members would have a passing interest. They have picked up on some of the videos here before.

Post it up anyway!

27-04-2015 8:15am

Wasnt there a video put up on youtube at one stage a few years back by boyracers of them showing off, speeding , driving dangerously, hanging out of windows and the like,
They were done for dangerous driving werent they? The guards got the numberplates off the video

nick240v · 27-04-2015 9:21pm

cheers - I need 25 posts though first to enable a link it says

I will stick it in the dash cam section

21 posts to go

nick240v · 27-04-2015 9:21pm

20 to go

dashcamdanny · 27-04-2015 9:26pm

Hey. copy the link onto a reply and take out .com and http We can post it proper then.

nick240v · 27-04-2015 9:27pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5lU2P2tjY

just checking?

nick240v · 27-04-2015 9:30pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua5lU2P2tjY

thanks danny - sorted it now as above

Sobanek · 27-04-2015 10:24pm

Can't be the reg in the description. The car comes back as a Nissan Qashqai which this is certainly not.

Victor · 28-04-2015 7:53pm

I would report any dangerous driving. Regarding speeding, if they are simply keeping up with traffic, I wouldn't. Parked on the kerb, loading bay, no parking ticket. Meh!

But I saw a young guy on a dirt bike today on a quiet side road. Tell me should I have reported him.

No vehicle registration.

Doing wheelies.

Aged about 15.

Wearing no helmet.

Between the school, terraced houses and apartments.

With a bunch of 10 year olds watching in awe.

While carying a 6-year old.

Wearing no helmet.

nick240v · 28-04-2015 11:23pm

Sobanek wrote: »

Can't be the reg in the description. The car comes back as a Nissan Qashqai which this is certainly not.

yup - apologies - I've changed the description - the 6 was an 8

I have an earlier clip where the plate is clearer than this footage

TheChizler · 28-04-2015 11:49pm

I miss that thread...

keithclancy · 29-04-2015 9:29am

Cheensbo wrote: »

X2

Also,

Gotta disagree with posters who say that Irish driving is abysmal/terrible/3rd world standard etc..

We've some of the safest roads in the world, with exceptionally low road deaths given our dependence on road travel. I suspect most people who say this have never actually looked at/experienced driving in a country where driving actually IS terrible.

To be fair, I don't think a lot of road traffic accidents are reported or even recorded.

Many people choose to sort it out without insurance and the Gardai can't be arsed/aren't able to turn up.

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-04-2015 10:21am

keithclancy wrote: »

To be fair, I don't think a lot of road traffic accidents are reported or even recorded.

Many people choose to sort it out without insurance and the Gardai can't be arsed/aren't able to turn up.

I always say we have the safest roads despite idiocy and inaction from the Gardai, RSA and government. They just throw out the odd statement, video, update of the law and a few speedchecks and checkpoints.
We largely sort everything out ourselves. In a way its an astounding system.

dashcamdanny · 29-04-2015 10:58am

If you report a driver and the Garda want to go after them, you may have to stand witness in court.

If you can spare the time off work for a trip to the garda station and half a day in court, as well as dealing with the stress of standing in a courtroom giving statements and maybe getting examined by the accused defence ,

then reporting stuff if the way forward.

Its would need to be a fairly dangerous bit of driving to warrant the hassle

29-04-2015 8:23pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

If you report a driver and the Garda want to go after them, you may have to stand witness in court.

If you can spare the time off work for a trip to the garda station and half a day in court, as well as dealing with the stress of standing in a courtroom giving statements and maybe getting examined by the accused defence ,

then reporting stuff if the way forward.

Its would need to be a fairly dangerous bit of driving to warrant the hassle

A lot of people who report dangerous driving or similar wonder why nothing is normally done about it. Unless the guards see it personally they have no evidence to take it to court.
Most people wouldnt be willing to make a formal statement and be willing to go to court

dashcamdanny · 29-04-2015 10:49pm

9935452 wrote: »

A lot of people who report dangerous driving or similar wonder why nothing is normally done about it. Unless the guards see it personally they have no evidence to take it to court.
Most people wouldnt be willing to make a formal statement and be willing to go to court

The reason I know is because of a call I made to traffic watch. (recommended from here).
A few weeks later I got a call back from a Garda in Rathcoole. I witnessed what seemed to be a drunk/high driver on the N7 driving without any consideration to any one.

Even with HD cam footage, I was told that pursuing a conviction would require a day in court and identification of the driver. The driver was known to the Garda for violent crimes.

I have been in court before as a witness to crimes in my community, since then I have been looking over my shoulder waiting for the scum bag to come back for revenge for his year in Mount Joy. Paranoid a little but I have a couple of babies in the house.

Unless you are 100% in your head that you want to go the whole 9 yards, I would forget it and just post it of Youtube for giggles ..

Ethical quandry over reporting 3rd party offences caught on dash cams

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