Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Muslims asked to remove headscarves for new Garda card

  • 21-03-2012 12:46pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Paddy Samurai


    REPRESENTATIVES OF Ireland’s largest Sunni mosque have raised concerns over incidents in which a number of Muslim women were asked to remove their headscarves to comply with new identification procedures at the Garda National Immigration Bureau in Dublin.
    The new procedures, which include a biometric fingerprint-capture system, were introduced in recent weeks.
    A number of women subsequently informed the Islamic Cultural Centre of Ireland that they had been requested to remove their headscarves or hijab for photographs required for the new version of the registration certificate sometimes known as the Garda National Immigration Bureau or GNIB card.
    The card, which features the holder’s name, photograph and other details, is proof that a person is legally resident in Ireland. The incidents did not involve women wearing the niqab or full-face veil.
    “As we believe that observing hijab, an Islamic obligation, is a right guaranteed by international laws and Irish law, we contacted a Garda representative and discussed our concerns,” said Ali Selim, a senior member of staff at the centre, which is based in Clonskeagh, Dublin. “The Garda representative showed understanding and acted promptly. Soon afterwards he confirmed to us that Muslim women would not be asked to remove their hijab. We are grateful for this prompt response. This is the inclusive Ireland that we are proud to be part of.”

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0321/1224313640645.html

    Seems pointless taking a ID photo if you can't see the persons face.So I assume that only the hair and neck are covered?.


«13456714

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭admiralofthefleet


    when in rome.....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,222 ✭✭✭keithclancy


    hondasam wrote: »
    Considering they are taking fingerprints the photograph is not as important.

    Fine then, non muslims should be allowed to wear a Balaclava, keeps the tea in your mouth warm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Seems logical. I can't wear my hoodie either I suppose.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Proper order. Religion is not a get out of jail free card when it comes to observing law.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Fine then, non muslims should be allowed to wear a Balaclava, keeps the tea in your mouth warm

    Is wearing a balaclava part of non Muslim culture ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Fine then, non muslims should be allowed to wear a Balaclava, keeps the tea in your mouth warm

    The Hijab covers hair, not the face. So hardly an apt comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭CardBordWindow


    Maybe the garda in question is just a fan of nice hair?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Proper order. Religion is not a get out of jail free card when it comes to observing law.

    They are taking their photograph and fingerprints, they are not breaking any law tbf.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    wes wrote: »
    The Hijab covers hair, not the face. So hardly an apt comparison.

    The photo requires that nothing is covered.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Unavailable for Comment


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The photo requires that nothing is covered.

    Only head coverings worn for religious reasons are permitted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭tfitzgerald


    I think they should be made remove it too . I'm sure the Garda can provide a female Garda to take the photo .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    hondasam wrote: »
    They are taking their photograph and fingerprints, they are not breaking any law tbf.

    Well, if they don't like the requirements - then they don't have to get the ID. If not having the ID affects their life here, then that is their fault - not ours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Pataman


    They should be made remove it. If they are stopped at the side of the road the garda has no way of checking fingerprints.


  • Registered Users Posts: 967 ✭✭✭some random drunk



    Seems pointless taking a ID photo if you can't see the persons face.So I assume that only the hair and neck are covered?.

    You can see their face. All women wearing veils have to remove them for the photo. Women wearing headscarves were on a couple of occasions asked to remove them, but won't be asked in future. This is in the article you quoted, I don't understand why you are confused?

    A veil covers a woman's hair, neck and face.
    A headscarf depending on the style may cover some or all of a woman's hair and some or all of her neck.


  • Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭Proxy


    They should remove it for the purpose of the card which is legal identification. It's the law, and as we all know religious law should not supersede the law in any circumstance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,874 ✭✭✭✭PogMoThoin


    If I'm not allowed my pasta strainer, they shouldn't be allowed their religious headdress


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    dlofnep wrote: »
    The photo requires that nothing is covered.

    This part of the article seems to suggest otherwise:
    “The Garda representative showed understanding and acted promptly. Soon afterwards he confirmed to us that Muslim women would not be asked to remove their hijab. We are grateful for this prompt response. This is the inclusive Ireland that we are proud to be part of.”

    So from my understanding of that, is that they are allowed to wear a head scarf, and that the previous requests were made out of confustion due to a new system.

    I still stand by my original point, that Balaclava, which covers ones face, is not the same as a head scarf, which doesn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,171 ✭✭✭af_thefragile


    Whatever happened to freedom...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,752 ✭✭✭markesmith


    Another incidence of people up in arms about their rights, without a moment's thought to their responsibilities. We need Dick Littlejohn in on this thread, the right-wing lunatic


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Unavailable for Comment


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Well, if they don't like the requirements - then they don't have to get the ID. If not having the ID affects their life here, then that is their fault - not ours.

    The requirement is on the Gardai to allow women to cover their hair as a religious obligation should they wish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,294 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    Are they requried to remove their head scarf for a passport photo?


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    To cover the face isn't an Islamic obligation. Most Muslim countries doesn't require this.
    Hardcore Muslims enforce it but Sharia doesn't supersede Irish law.

    Even the girl with the face covering says "it's a choice".



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,419 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Well, if they don't like the requirements - then they don't have to get the ID. If not having the ID affects their life here, then that is their fault - not ours.

    Why does it have to be us against the rest of the world.
    Pataman wrote: »
    They should be made remove it. If they are stopped at the side of the road the garda has no way of checking fingerprints.

    If I am stopped at the side of the road a guard has no way of checking who I am either.He has to go on the Id I have on me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭Unavailable for Comment


    irish-stew wrote: »
    Are they requried to remove their head scarf for a passport photo?

    No.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    wes wrote: »
    I still stand by my original point, that Balaclava, which covers ones face, is not the same as a head scarf, which doesn't.

    So long as the courtesy is extended to all people, male, or female - regardless of their religion - that they can wear a head-scarf - Then I'll accept such a decision. I won't accept any exceptions based on religious grounds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Absolutely ridiculous stuff.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    I wonder what an Islamic shampoo ad would look like..


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    I think they should be asked to remove it just for the purposes of identification. Faces without the hair visible can be surprisingly hard to distinguish from each other. Hair gives a face more definition and can be used to distinguish two people with similar faces from each other.

    The rest of the time though, people should be allowed to wear whatever they want.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    hondasam wrote: »
    Why does it have to be us against the rest of the world.

    I don't see how it's us against the world. I don't believe that religion is a valid excuse for covering up and having it protected by law. The courtesy should be extended to all, or none.


Advertisement